Stay Away From The Walls
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While watching Black Hawk down, I realized there's this scene where this Ranger Grimes was following this group of Delta force troopers in a corridor of some sort. The Delta guy called out "Hey Grimes, stay away from the walls" and a few seconds after he says that, an RPG was launched and hit the wall which Grimes was near.
So just curious, is there any restrictions for FIBUA/Urban Ops which advices soldiers to stay away from the walls? -
I think i read from the Black Hawk Down book, it did mentioned the same thing. The explanation given there is that the bullets will hit the wall and somehow 'richochet' all the wall thus hiting whoever along that same wall.
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Sure, if you are in front of a wall, a shell hitting the wall can throw shrapnel at you or bullets can ricochet etc...
But what are the choices?
Keep away from the walls and stand out in the open?
In FIBUA, how to keep away from walls when walls are everywhere? -
No. I think its stated for dramatic purposes. Remember this?Originally posted by SpecOps87:While watching Black Hawk down, I realized there's this scene where this Ranger Grimes was following this group of Delta force troopers in a corridor of some sort. The Delta guy called out "Hey Grimes, stay away from the walls" and a few seconds after he says that, an RPG was launched and hit the wall which Grimes was near.
So just curious, is there any restrictions for FIBUA/Urban Ops which advices soldiers to stay away from the walls?This - wiggles finger - is my safety
Oh how I wished I had told my BMT sergeants that.
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Walls are all the cover one is going to get in an urban setup. One must not forget too, that certain rounds, from the GPMG especially, can shoot through walls. Not all walls are impenetratable too. Choose the right kind of wall!
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reminds me of a joke... mayb off topics.
last time, when we r leaning against the wall, the sergeants will make us hold on the wall n shout... help help, the wall is falling....
so stay away from the wall!!! -
My rationale when I saw it was that, being in a FIBUA / Urban area, rounds fired will inevitably always end up hitting walls around you. So its like, the close you are to a wall, the more likely you are to get hit.
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i watch swat stuff, they always lean towards wall one leh.
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Stay away from the walls ? Is it a truely a good advice that come out from iraq ? Well it seem like a good ideal especially when when RPG rounds hit the wall, as wall fragments fly may hit the soldiers.Originally posted by SpecOps87:My rationale when I saw it was that, being in a FIBUA / Urban area, rounds fired will inevitably always end up hitting walls around you. So its like, the close you are to a wall, the more likely you are to get hit.
But one must not forget, one can get shot at one if one is seen by the enemy, and in urban / fibua, staying close to the wall usually help to hide soldier better, walking too far from the wall make one too easy.
The advice of not close to the wall, is actually not hugging it , that is because bullet do the bounce off a wall at a angle, but it will follow along the wall, and hit anyone hugging it.
In real, think the best is to stay close to wall enough to get come camo into the environment, but not hugging it till bullet that travel along the wall will not hit you. -
Swat most important is stealth, that why they will stay as close to the wall as one can, as the wall is their only camo.Originally posted by Ito_^:i watch swat stuff, they always lean towards wall one leh. -
"Stay Away from the Walls."
Means don't stick to the wall and remain stationary there. You can advance along walls, but don't stay put there. Keep moving or find other better cover. -
I was thinking more along the lines of "Walls give you the illusion of cover and safety."
A similar situation is keeping low when in the rubber dinghy. The rubber dinghy doesn't provide any cover whatsoever, but we keep low, for concealment, but that doesn't mean that you're covered. -
Walls do give you cover... in one direction. If the fire is coming from the other direction, staying near the wrong wall would allow ricochet rounds and explosive fragments more easily.
I'm sure when he yelled "Stay away from the walls!" He didn't mean that the rangers should run out into the open away from the walls. Fire was coming from the exposed direction and staying near the walls would actually make it more dangerous for them? -
Just to mess everyone's minds. BCTC FIBUA drill, follow walls till come to opening (window/door) then do room enter drills.
Think not likely to hug wall b/cos in FIBUA environment lots of debris collect on edges etc. -
Don't quite get what you mean Shotgun. Hope you can like elaborateOriginally posted by Shotgun:Walls do give you cover... in one direction. If the fire is coming from the other direction, staying near the wrong wall would allow ricochet rounds and explosive fragments more easily.
I'm sure when he yelled "Stay away from the walls!" He didn't mean that the rangers should run out into the open away from the walls. Fire was coming from the exposed direction and staying near the walls would actually make it more dangerous for them? -
He is saying that if you are being shot at and you are in front of the wall, you run a risk of being hit by bullets that have ricocheted off the wall if you are too close.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Don't quite get what you mean Shotgun. Hope you can like elaborate
Commonsense really. Can't see what the fuss is about. -
If cover is too far, I believe you should drop and leopard crawl to cover even if it's beside a wall?Originally posted by Shotgun:Walls do give you cover... in one direction. If the fire is coming from the other direction, staying near the wrong wall would allow ricochet rounds and explosive fragments more easily.
I'm sure when he yelled "Stay away from the walls!" He didn't mean that the rangers should run out into the open away from the walls. Fire was coming from the exposed direction and staying near the walls would actually make it more dangerous for them? -
Hmmm, okay... A wall that is not between u and the enemy is not helpful.
A wall that is behind u, is more dangerous due to POSSIBLE ricocheting rounds, explosive shrapnel and even debris.
A lot of things may be common sense when we discuss it in words. It sure gets trickier practice. Example, if u take fire from high elevation, should one prone immediately ( as we were taught in BMT, Sgt always like to say be a smaller target )? It makes you a larger and slower target depending on the elevation.
There are always exceptions to normal situations. You should stick to the walls cos it gives u cover from 1 direction, allowing you to only focus on the other. You shouldn't stick to THAT wall if u take fire from the exposed direction.
Aiya, we talk so much also no use one actually. In combat, just listen to the lau chiau who's been shot at most often and is still alive. *provided he's not the sole survivor died who most probably survived by sacrificing his mates.* -
Haha, got it.Originally posted by Shotgun:Hmmm, okay... A wall that is not between u and the enemy is not helpful.
A wall that is behind u, is more dangerous due to POSSIBLE ricocheting rounds, explosive shrapnel and even debris.
A lot of things may be common sense when we discuss it in words. It sure gets trickier practice. Example, if u take fire from high elevation, should one prone immediately ( as we were taught in BMT, Sgt always like to say be a smaller target )? It makes you a larger and slower target depending on the elevation.
There are always exceptions to normal situations. You should stick to the walls cos it gives u cover from 1 direction, allowing you to only focus on the other. You shouldn't stick to THAT wall if u take fire from the exposed direction.
Aiya, we talk so much also no use one actually. In combat, just listen to the lau chiau who's been shot at most often and is still alive. *provided he's not the sole survivor died who most probably survived by sacrificing his mates.* -
Yah, but its difficult to visualize in words in case you didn't realize. Btw, have also watched some SWAT unit videos, where they have this tactic called the "wall flood" where the shooters basically line themselves against the wall upon entry and start shooting. So I mean contary to the "stay away from the walls" warning, they are actually pretty close up to it. So yeah...wondering what's the diff. in the techniques used.Originally posted by scabstermooch:He is saying that if you are being shot at and you are in front of the wall, you run a risk of being hit by bullets that have ricocheted off the wall if you are too close.
Commonsense really. Can't see what the fuss is about. -
That is a different situation altogether. You see in SWAT you know no one is going to take a pop at you as the enemy's general location is known. Hence there is not need for them to take into account ricochets.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Yah, but its difficult to visualize in words in case you didn't realize. Btw, have also watched some SWAT unit videos, where they have this tactic called the "wall flood" where the shooters basically line themselves against the wall upon entry and start shooting. So I mean contary to the "stay away from the walls" warning, they are actually pretty close up to it. So yeah...wondering what's the diff. in the techniques used.
And when you are in a room I think staying with the walls helps to cut down on confusion and helps prevent blue-on-blues. -
Alright.Thanks for sharing the insights!Originally posted by scabstermooch:That is a different situation altogether. You see in SWAT you know no one is going to take a pop at you as the enemy's general location is known. Hence there is not need for them to take into account ricochets.
And when you are in a room I think staying with the walls helps to cut down on confusion and helps prevent blue-on-blues. -
Reminds me of saving private ryan, when the fella was tying his lace he made the wall fall lolOriginally posted by RaTtY8l:reminds me of a joke... mayb off topics.
last time, when we r leaning against the wall, the sergeants will make us hold on the wall n shout... help help, the wall is falling....
so stay away from the wall!!! -
I'm just guessing! I still think it is wholly unneccessary though as I doubt it matters all that much how close you are to the wall when you are sbeing shot at with anything from 7.62mm to RPGs!!! Hence I think it was added to make the delta guy look, in american parlance, "shit hot". Just like the whole nonsense with "this is my safety".Originally posted by SpecOps87:Alright.Thanks for sharing the insights! -
Oh well, still at least it broadens my perspective. So when moving in a FIBUA / Urban environment, the best is to play by ear the situation. Just curious, with the 7 men section, what is the ideal placement of the troops?