Anyone knows why RSAF chose F15 SG over Typhoon or Rafale ?
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Basically put, it's never a waste to have a force that can play some part in stabilising this area of the world.
These are two of our most key interests.
1. Open SLOCs (Sea lanes of communications)
2. Stable neighbours in the Malay Archipelago.
If regional instability should step in and affect our national security or economic prospects, I won't be surprised to see a certain pre-emptive action being taken.
The recent exercise in humanitarian soft power projection, certainly would have sent a few different messages to different elements in their nation. -
Dear gaoxingdcf
I think ROCs fly Mirage 2000s not Rafales - anyone , please correct if incorrect. No AF flies Rafales except French Air Force.
F15 air to air victories are against lesser opponents & aircraft - air superiority already established against opponents in most if not all cases. Pit it one to one with a well flown MIG 29 or SU30 and the outcome cud be quite different.
One will never have too much range. In almost every air war , range is always a problem because usually, the situation is usually never what was planned for . -
the fact that we have KC-135 is quite suggestive =)Originally posted by Fatum:the northern dragon is certainly one of them ... I used to see them as the new "rising sun" ... but then again, no one in the right mind would want to go up against them, no ? ... certainly not us .... but we also have a potential "eagle" on the loose ... somewhere else ....
why do we need a long range aircraft for ? ... take out a map of south east asia and the answer'd be clear, no ? ...
that country has the potential to become a real basket case one day, and as a terrorist or fundamentalist haven it'll be worse for us and the entire region than 10 Iraqs or Afghanistans ...
positive. Rafale can't find export market yet, only French AF and navy are using it.Originally posted by glock:Dear gaoxingdcf
I think ROCs fly Mirage 2000s not Rafales - anyone , please correct if incorrect. No AF flies Rafales except French Air Force.
F15 air to air victories are against lesser opponents & aircraft - air superiority already established against opponents in most if not all cases. Pit it one to one with a well flown MIG 29 or SU30 and the outcome cud be quite different.
One will never have too much range. In almost every air war , range is always a problem because usually, the situation is usually never what was planned for . -
with the extended drop tanks/ future AWACS requirement etc.. can tell.Originally posted by chillycraps:the fact that we have KC-135 is quite suggestive =) -
Bingo. Rafale hasn't made a single international sale. =D Anyone watched Titanic in French?Originally posted by glock:Dear gaoxingdcf
I think ROCs fly Mirage 2000s not Rafales - anyone , please correct if incorrect. No AF flies Rafales except French Air Force.
F15 air to air victories are against lesser opponents & aircraft - air superiority already established against opponents in most if not all cases. Pit it one to one with a well flown MIG 29 or SU30 and the outcome cud be quite different.
One will never have too much range. In almost every air war , range is always a problem because usually, the situation is usually never what was planned for .
I think SG has plans to project power at least all the way out to the Spratly's. If not on her own, as part of a multinational task force. -
Supposedly becos our neighbours have the formidable Su-30s. Thats why we need an equally impressive bird like the F-15SG. Combat proven, flawless record.
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you know ... I'm not sure if the formidability of the Su-30 is also partly because of the desire of the military-industrial complexes of US and Europe to sell more sophisticated aircraft to their airforces ... the cold war is over, defence spending is way way down and the soviet bear is dismantled ... you'd have to look for more adversaries for those goverments to keep on spending money ...Originally posted by Megatop:Supposedly becos our neighbours have the formidable Su-30s. Thats why we need an equally impressive bird like the F-15SG. Combat proven, flawless record.
maybe aircrafts like the F-16, 15, 18 etc are prefectly fine ... but the margins will be much higher for aircrafts like the raptor, typhoons and such, going more than 100 mil a pop, eh ? ...
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Supposedly becos our neighbours have the formidable Su-30s. Thats why we need an equally impressive bird like the F-15SG. Combat proven, flawless record. Wink
Er Su-27 or Su-30 ? -
Su 30s -
Su-30 still at its prototype stages ?
And is the Russians first to put Electro optical Targeting systems on their planes ? -
Su-30 still at its prototype stages ?
Havent been reading much on the Sukhoi series....
And is the Russians first to put Electro optical Targeting systems on their planes ? -
aww, I want a E-3 Sentry AWACS!Originally posted by LazerLordz:with the extended drop tanks/ future AWACS requirement etc.. can tell.
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Might not be possible, given that the G550s are either in the running, or have been bought.Originally posted by chillycraps:aww, I want a E-3 Sentry AWACS! 
E-3s would be good, but I'd hedge my bets on the WestPac intel sharing pool with Australia and the USAF, using the Global Hawk drones. -
The F-15SGs can fly in moonless darkness, almost auto-pilot hug the valleys and plantations up north to avoid detection, even under heavy rain and cloud (common here and up north), fly in a radar mode that will not betray its position to enemy radar detectors.
Then sneak up to the air fields and render the air fields inoperatable. Once the airfields are taken out, the enemy SU and MiGs fighters can't take off.
Should the few enemy fighters on CAP intercept en-route or on return route, the F-15SGs are still equipped with full air-to-air weapons which are not sacrified while on strike configuration.
And u need to carry heavy lots in order to take out the airfields with minimal re-strikes. And remember that northern countries have a lot more airfields then us. And some of the airfields are really very far away. If you do an air-to-air refueling, you give away your position.
I'm sure the Typhoons and Rafael can do a decent strike job eventually. But the F-15SG is probably off-the-bat, better at the strike job.
So sure, the F-15SG may not be as good in air-to-air in a one-to-one dogfight against the latest SU or MiGs. But war is nof fair. Why bother to fight one-on-one when you can take out the whole enemy air force? -
More on the Su-30s.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/su_30mk/
Quote from article:
In 2003, Malaysia ordered 18 Su-30MKM aircraft, to be delivered in 2006-07. -
Yeap, Russian Jets were the first to include Electro Optical Tracking Systems. However, the Tomcats in the USN used a similar system as well to visually track targets at Beyond Visual Range. For the Su-27 variants, u can see the system just in front of the cockpit fuselage on the starboard side.
I believe one of the Serbian shoot downs, F-16 I think, was acquired on those by a flight of MiG-29s flying low level. The pilot flew low to avoid radar detection, and searched the skies tediously with the an Infra Red Tracking System or something, before coming up from under with a heat seeking shot. -
potentially there can be many "eagles" on the loose up north, if the Thai military can topple their government, there is nothing to stop them from taking further action if the Temasek/ Shin Corp issue were not handled properly on the diplomatic front.Originally posted by Fatum:the northern dragon is certainly one of them ... I used to see them as the new "rising sun" ... but then again, no one in the right mind would want to go up against them, no ? ... certainly not us .... but we also have a potential "eagle" on the loose ... somewhere else ....
why do we need a long range aircraft for ? ... take out a map of south east asia and the answer'd be clear, no ? ...
that country has the potential to become a real basket case one day, and as a terrorist or fundamentalist haven it'll be worse for us and the entire region than 10 Iraqs or Afghanistans ...
East asia will continue to be the playground for the dragon, the elephant, the bear and the eagle to show off their military might and exerting their influence. It will be to everybody's interest to maintain a balance among them, for we will never be ready enough to take on any one of them, no matter who we have on our side, yes?
while watching out against negative impact from the fight of the titans, it would be stupid to think that the little dog next door would always stop at barking, no?
just saw what they did in their annual meeting, kissing the kris, making uncalled for remarks about spilling blood to protect some religion and race..... a message to us? no?
Hope we have not spent billions watching out for 10 Iraqs thousand miles away, and forgetting that half an Iraq next door is more than enough to wipe us out if we are not careful, no?
why we need long range aircraft? just so we can fly as far as possible from singapore to take on enemy faraway? How many of our aircrafts are stationed in overseas bases? those in the US, France, Taiwan, Thailand, are they there only for training? when our two bases in singapore were bombed or sabotaged, will they have enough fuel to fly back and save singapore? if we were to carry out a preemptive strike against enemy bases, would our fighters be taking off from tengah or paya lebar and head directly for the targets? or do our long range aircraft give us the flexibility to attack from different directions, like the IAF during the 6 days war? there are many angles to look at, even if we just look at the map. -
There are a lot of other factors as well. Long Range also means longer loiter times. Which comes in very helpful when supporting ground forces.
Sometimes, to over come enemy air defense u also need to take large detours to exploit a gap. Lots of advantages.
In any case, between the Strike Eagle and the Su-30, I would still place my life and bet on the Strike Eagle. =) -
you need so many strike aircraft for what?Originally posted by fallin:I think its because F-15 can carry heavy payloads. I think somebody said here before that the RSAF wasn't looking for a air-superiority fighter. Rather, it was looking for a fighter that could perform a strike role, thus a plane that could carry a heavy payload would be more suitable.
F16 also strike aircraft... F15 also strike aircraft
left the tiger as air superiority type.?
without an capable air superiority aircraft, the Air to ground aircraft will fall easy prey to MIG 29 ,Su 27 etc etc.
fyi , the tiger is only an light interceptor niao. lol
think harder. 1 reason might be becos f15 is proven in actual conflict. -
The F-16 and F-15s are more capable INTERCEPTORs than the F-5s. The F-16 is not a strike aircraft. It is a modular aircraft where its role is determined by the type of munitions u slap on. However, its range is limited. An F-16 without fuel tanks has only 7000lbs of fuel, which translates to 7 mins of afterburner.Originally posted by revotune:you need so many strike aircraft for what?
F16 also strike aircraft... F15 also strike aircraft
left the tiger as air superiority type.?
without an capable air superiority aircraft, the Air to ground aircraft will fall easy prey to MIG 29 ,Su 27 etc etc.
fyi , the tiger is only an light interceptor niao. lol
think harder. 1 reason might be becos f15 is proven in actual conflict.
On the other hand, the F-15SGs was made for the Strike role in mind. And its design stems from the the F-15Ds, which were Air Superiority fighters. Hence they are still more than capable Air to Air combatant. Trust me, Strike Eagles won't fall prey to Migs29s or Su27s that easily. -
guys....check F-15 and F-16 history...its original role for F-15 is AIR SUPERIORITY . USAF have AX replacement for F-111 that came out with Mud Hen F-15E (at that time compete with F-16XL), F-16 is meant to be frm day light fighter nw a medium-heavy weight multirole fighter.....
pls do your research before making any senseless arguements......
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I think I got my info correct leh. The F-16s role is not longer just "light fighter" already. Its a multirole fighter. The F-15SG is the mud mover version of the F-15 C/D design.
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strike eAgle is meant as an interceptor couple with strike capability.Originally posted by duotiga83:guys....check F-15 and F-16 history...its original role for F-15 is AIR SUPERIORITY . USAF have AX replacement for F-111 that came out with Mud Hen F-15E (at that time compete with F-16XL), F-16 is meant to be frm day light fighter nw a medium-heavy weight multirole fighter.....
pls do your research before making any senseless arguements......
fyi, there is an weapon officer in the second cockpit for that purpose.
1 disadvantage is that it is not an agile plane.
i once saw in the air show hoe the eagle fly, wow lau, fly like an pregnant plane!
thus it is not suited for close combat.
this role is complimented by f16.
f16 is an zhiau parang plane actually. light and agile
mig29 is capable to down an eagle in close range given the same pilot standard. -
I think u need to correct your facts.Originally posted by revotune:strike eAgle is meant as an interceptor couple with strike capability.
fyi, there is an weapon officer in the second cockpit for that purpose.
1 disadvantage is that it is not an agile plane.
i once saw in the air show hoe the eagle fly, wow lau, fly like an pregnant plane!
thus it is not suited for close combat.
this role is complimented by f16.
f16 is an zhiau parang plane actually. light and agile
mig29 is capable to down an eagle in close range given the same pilot standard.
The Strike Eagle is a Strike version of the Original Eagle. Its optimized for flying Strike missions and other ground attack sorties such as interdiction. It however retains the air to air capability of the Eagle. Its heavier weight with Strike ordnance LIMITS its air to air performance. However if configured as a Strike Escort, with air to air ordnance, it can out perform the MiG-29 EASILY in the BVR arena.
Given the AIM-9X capability, the agility of the aircraft has become a lesser issue. The missile will always be more capable in manuevers than the aircraft, so the Strike Eagle does not need to OUT turn the Fulcrum to shoot it down.
The MiG-29s "legendary" manueverability is overrated. It can only manuever like that at lower altitudes and lower airspeeds, mainly <350kts. That means nothing in BVR, and much lesser in WVR given helmet targeting systems and off boresight missiles. So what if the MiG can make 9gs @ <350 kts? Its a slower target thats all.
New systems like Helmet targeting systems and Off boresight missiles changes the approach WVR fight. Instead of getting into turning fights, trying to out manuever each other, pilots would be trying to get into launch envelops, and leaving it in a hurry, aka boom and zoom. They are not gonna wait around in side the enemy's launch envelop and wait to get shot. -
Excellent!Originally posted by Shotgun:The Strike Eagle is a Strike version of the Original Eagle. Its optimized for flying Strike missions and other ground attack sorties such as interdiction. It however retains the air to air capability of the Eagle. Its heavier weight with Strike ordnance LIMITS its air to air performance. However if configured as a Strike Escort, with air to air ordnance, it can out perform the MiG-29 EASILY in the BVR arena.
Given the AIM-9X capability, the agility of the aircraft has become a lesser issue. The missile will always be more capable in manuevers than the aircraft, so the Strike Eagle does not need to OUT turn the Fulcrum to shoot it down.
The MiG-29s "legendary" manueverability is overrated. It can only manuever like that at lower altitudes and lower airspeeds, mainly <350kts. That means nothing in BVR, and much lesser in WVR given helmet targeting systems and off boresight missiles. So what if the MiG can make 9gs @ <350 kts? Its a slower target thats all.
New systems like Helmet targeting systems and Off boresight missiles changes the approach WVR fight. Instead of getting into turning fights, trying to out manuever each other, pilots would be trying to get into launch envelops, and leaving it in a hurry, aka boom and zoom. They are not gonna wait around in side the enemy's launch envelop and wait to get shot.