Anyone knows why RSAF chose F15 SG over Typhoon or Rafale ?
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Read that Typhoon is superb aircraft. F15 SG is one generation behind the Typhoon. More & more air forces are now selecting Typhoon.
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I think its because F-15 can carry heavy payloads. I think somebody said here before that the RSAF wasn't looking for a air-superiority fighter. Rather, it was looking for a fighter that could perform a strike role, thus a plane that could carry a heavy payload would be more suitable.
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During the selection phase, the Typhoon was dropped because its delivery/delveopment schedule doesn't meet RSAF's requirements.
The ground attack element of the Typhoon was still under development during that time.
Selecting the typhoon b4 this development is complete would have been high risk.
As the Typhoon mature, it might get more success in the export market. -
Still it doesnt mean that SG wun buy typhoons in the future ( i certainly hope to see one in our colours)
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I think the selection was politically motivated.
But well with a F-15, u could'nt get even more happier
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1. price
2. AESA radar
3. Weapon package includes AIM-9X and SOW.
4. weapon load
5.life cycle cost -
unless our initial F15SG is a failure. it is unlikely we will get the Typhoon in the near future...Originally posted by storm_freaky13:Still it doesnt mean that SG wun buy typhoons in the future ( i certainly hope to see one in our colours)
If all goes according to "plan". we should be seeing a F16C/D, F15SG and F-35A fleet in the future when we retire our F5S. -
The track record it has, a stepping stone for them if they end up buying JSF from US.
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6. RiskOriginally posted by tripwire:1. price
2. AESA radar
3. Weapon package includes AIM-9X and SOW.
4. weapon load
5.life cycle cost
Typhoon and Rafale were unable/seen unlikely to deliver the aircraft with the features requested (mainly AESA but could be more) at the expected delivery date. -
7.Most of our planes are American, getting another one would be a lot easier to integrate into a system. Makes life way easier for logistics.Originally posted by touchstone_2000:6. Risk
Typhoon and Rafale were unable/seen unlikely to deliver the aircraft with the features requested (mainly AESA but could be more) at the expected delivery date. -
F-35... I really really still have my doubts on the JSF. Yes its begun to fly and all, but the cost??? It is one aircraft with VERY low weapons payload.
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dont forget that everyone else might get a watered down version.Originally posted by Shotgun:F-35... I really really still have my doubts on the JSF. Yes its begun to fly and all, but the cost??? It is one aircraft with VERY low weapons payload.
I think we'd see how the JSF program works out then either get it or drop it entirely and get something else. -
RSAF shud not put all its eggs in one basket with US aircraft. Integration of non US aircraft such as NATO Typhoon into RSAF is still ok. Our air force used Italian, French and British aircraft in addition to US ones. Western aircraft have similar technologies and design / maintenance philosophies. Anyway, Typhoon can carry most US key weapons such as AMRAMM, AIM9X, JDAM, LGBs.
Also, Typhoon has very advanced air to air features which cannot be matched by F15 SG & F16 now & in future. Typhoon is optimized for BVR specifically to counter advanced Russia warplanes. No US fighter ( except FA22 Raptor which is prohibitively expensive & also probably cannot be exported in any case ) can match Typhoon ( or advanced Russian fighter for that matter anyway ) in air to air combat.
I believe that Typhoon shud be considered in future for its outstanding air to air capabilities. -
A2A, yes.
But the RSAF's need, is a long-range, deep strike capability. -
IIRC, PM LHL once commented about the over reliance on US aircraft in RSAF.
I think in real life, there isn't any European aircraft that meets RSAF current needs.
F-35 Lightning? IMHO, it won't turn into orders went it rolls off production line in 2011/2012.
Typhoon or Rafale as a replacement for F-35? Maybe that is at least another 5+ years away. -
IMO, the choice for F15 has both polictical and practical experience.
In terms of political, it makes sense because we need to get into bed with the Americans, we can make use of their training facilities, instructors, etc. Imagine you buy Typhoon and where you gonna train? Its only in US that you can fly your F15 with F16, coordination with our AWS aircraft and perhaps vs Apache, and all the hardware that we might have at the Prairie Training Ground.
Its crucial that we can formulate battle plans incorporating the different a/c that we have and then actually do it in the training gnd. I don't think US is gonna let you fly the Typhoon over and base them at the training ground ? Also, flying the F16s over may not be a good idea as well.
I am not sure, but I suppose cross-training support staff will be easier to maintain and arm the F16 & F15. In the sense, weapons can be developed with the two aircarfts in mind / system.
Lastly as many have pointed out, purchasing the F15 can be a stepping stone to purchasing the future generation aircrafts that may come off the line.
I think perhaps one of the most crucial reason is its trackrecord. The F15 is available, its playing, its taken part in combat and it has shot down planes without a single loss. That is the testament you need to pick the aircraft. The other planes are not yet flying or not that "well-known". Without doubt, the F15 is considered old but it is only a stop-gap. I think RSAF is gonna purchase a newer batch to replace its F5 & early F16s soon. -
American AIM-9X and JDAM are not integrated to the Typhoon yet. British ASRAAM is.Originally posted by glock:RSAF shud not put all its eggs in one basket with US aircraft. Integration of non US aircraft such as NATO Typhoon into RSAF is still ok. Our air force used Italian, French and British aircraft in addition to US ones. Western aircraft have similar technologies and design / maintenance philosophies. Anyway, Typhoon can carry most US key weapons such as AMRAMM, AIM9X, JDAM, LGBs.
Also, Typhoon has very advanced air to air features which cannot be matched by F15 SG & F16 now & in future. Typhoon is optimized for BVR specifically to counter advanced Russia warplanes. No US fighter ( except FA22 Raptor which is prohibitively expensive & also probably cannot be exported in any case ) can match Typhoon ( or advanced Russian fighter for that matter anyway ) in air to air combat.
I believe that Typhoon shud be considered in future for its outstanding air to air capabilities.
Cheers,
Sunho -
F15 can carry lots of payload lah. Typhoon can cruise at supersonic w/o afterburning for what, kumlan?
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I'm not complaining about getting F-15SG
oh try drawing a parallel between us and Israel. They fly F-16I, they fly F-15I, they fly Apache. (yeah yeah they flew/fly A-4) Their air force is doing well. -
They got their TAR-21, we got our SAR-21.
But TAR-21 is better. Wahahaha! -
F-15E first flight - 11 Dec 1986Originally posted by glock:Read that Typhoon is superb aircraft. F15 SG is one generation behind the Typhoon. More & more air forces are now selecting Typhoon.
One must remember that f-15E look like f-15C but it is a total redesign plane.
Eurofighter - althought the first flight is 27 March 1994, but was not really that new, it dervied from Experimental Aircraft Program (EAP) which first flight was Aug 1986 just that agreements and contracts drag on and delay , which make people think it is more recent.
Rafale first flight - 04 july 1986
Looking at the data above, all 3 planes are the same generation and technology. They are equal in a lot of area.
The reason why singapore choice f-15 sg is the right choice.
Singapore have a wide range of high tech weapons, the only plane at the moment capable of carry them is only F-15 sg . Sad to say Rafale & Eurofighter will need some years before they can do so. F-15 also have the superior range and load.
For those who like eurofighter & rafale, face the fact the ideal of plane able to outturn taking down another plane in dog-fight seem glorious. But they must not forget F-15 can do it also. But modern warfare already changing, with the new helmet sights and missiles which the plane manubility is not that important, they became more of missile platform carrier. Nowaday, you are more interest in taking out those planes before they even airborne, so F-15 is the better plane to get the job done.
Consider also if war happens, the ease of resupply and replace of the planes is in question. If rafale or eurofighter, supply is going to be a huge issues. Where as F-15, supplies is easiler and can be instant taking from US stockpiles. -
I won't be surprised if our Eagles are equipped with Israeli avionics.Originally posted by chillycraps:I'm not complaining about getting F-15SG
oh try drawing a parallel between us and Israel. They fly F-16I, they fly F-15I, they fly Apache. (yeah yeah they flew/fly A-4) Their air force is doing well.
Yup.
1. A-4 (SG,IL)
2. F-16I/F-16D 52+ (SG,IL)
3. F-15I/F-15SG (SG,IL)
4. UAVs too. -
For air to ground , F15 SG currently beats Typhoon simply because F15 E/SG was adapted from the original F15 for ground attack / interdiction. Typhoon was originally conceived as an air to air figher.
Although F15 E flew in 1986, its origins are still based on 1970's technology. The first flight of the F15 must have been in the 70s. Typhoon had a long gestation period before becoming operational due mainly to political reasons, but its technology is at least 1990s( or later ) based.
For air to air F15SG is outclassed by Typhoon. As mentioned somewhere else, Typhoon is optimized for BVR. It has IRST , the most advanced pilot / warplane interface & helmet sight, supercruise, carefree flight controls, +9 g rating at SUPERSONIC speeds & in future Meteor BVR missiles. Which fighter do you want to be in when facing up against a SU30 ; F15E /SG or Typhoon ?
Singapore is not Israel which has strong political lobby in USA. Neither do we aspire to be Israeli-like. One shud never assume ANY country will come to our aid in times of crisis. Our thinking shud be that we only have ourselves to depend on - and that is how the Israelis think - this is what we shud emulate. -
The Typhoon indeed has an advantage over the F-15 in terms of air to air combat. However the items highlighted in orange are also present (or equivalent alternatives) in the latest F-15 variants comprising the F-15K and F-15SG. The F-15SG was selected by the RSAF due to its impressive strike capability as well as a still potent air to air capability, especially when equipped with the APG-63(V)3 AESA as well as the latest AIM-9X / AIM-120C AAMs.Originally posted by glock:For air to air F15SG is outclassed by Typhoon. As mentioned somewhere else, Typhoon is optimized for BVR. It has IRST , the most advanced pilot / warplane interface & helmet sight, supercruise, carefree flight controls, +9 g rating at SUPERSONIC speeds & in future Meteor BVR missiles. Which fighter do you want to be in when facing up against a SU30 ; F15E /SG or Typhoon ?
The RSAF could potentially receive a total of up to 80 F-15SGs, depending on the status of the F-35 program. However, in my opinion it would be wise to also order Typhoons for the air superiority / escort roles. These would replace our F-5S/T fleet nicely and any purchase of F-35 fighters could be made in the 2020s when our F-16 fleet wears out. The initial F-35s versions would not be as capable as an evolved Typhoon except in terms of stealth anyway. -
I agree!! I would like to point out it should be Rafale or Typhoon.Originally posted by ^Delta^:The Typhoon indeed has an advantage over the F-15 in terms of air to air combat. However the items highlighted in orange are also present (or equivalent alternatives) in the latest F-15 variants comprising the F-15K and F-15SG. The F-15SG was selected by the RSAF due to its impressive strike capability as well as a still potent air to air capability, especially when equipped with the APG-63(V)3 AESA as well as the latest AIM-9X / AIM-120C AAMs.
The RSAF could potentially receive a total of up to 80 F-15SGs, depending on the status of the F-35 program. However, in my opinion it would be wise to also order Typhoons for the air superiority / escort roles. These would replace our F-5S/T fleet nicely and any purchase of F-35 fighters could be made in the 2020s when our F-16 fleet wears out. The initial F-35s versions would not be as capable as an evolved Typhoon except in terms of stealth anyway.
Strange that Typhoon would be highly rated for BVR missions, considering that Meteor is not even IOC