Indian jets head to head with RSAF F-16s at SINDEX
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November 8, 2006 (by Lieven Dewitte) - A joint Indo-Singapore air force exercise, codenamed "SINDEX" commenced today at Air Station Kalaikunda in India. This is the third such exercise between the Republic of Singapore Air Force and the Indian Air Force.
The exercise, which will run until November 30th, hopes to strengthen defence cooperation between the two countries and to allow the air forces to learn from each otherÂ’s operational philosophy and tactics.
The IAF has fielded its MiG-27 and upgraded MiG-21 Bisons against the Singapore F-16s. The Indian Air Forcee had earlier used frontline jets like the Sukhoi 30, Mirage 2000 and other fighters against F-16s -- the mainstay of Pakistan's fighter fleet -- during earlier exercises with the US Air Force, Thai Air Force and Singapore Air Force.
The for example United States deployed 12 F-16 CJs from Misawa and Kadena to Kalaikunda Air Base for the Cope India exercise in November last year.
"The tactics being fine-tuned by the two air forces are dissimilar air combat, air defence and ground support," an IAF spokesman declared.
Besides the pilots, fighter controllers, air traffic controllers and radar system operators of both the air forces will participate in the exercise. A host of other support staff will also be involved in managing engineering, logistics and administrative issues.
Air Force Station Kalaikunda in Kharagpur, West Bengal, came into existence during the Second World War as a forward airfield. This base has played a vital role in all the wars fought by India. It has recently been upgraded and at present, it is one of the major IAF air bases for hosting international air exercises.
The inaugural bilateral exercise between the RSAF and the IAF, SINDEX 04, was held in October 04 at Gwalior Air Force Station. The RSAF participated with six F-16C/Ds supported by 2 tankers and 1 transport plane whereas India operated the Sukhoi-30, MiG-27 and Mirage 2000 aircraft. The second exercise ran from 03 to 20 January in which eight RSAF F-16s participated.
http://www.f-16.net/news_article2046.html -
interesting~
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the IAF's MIGs didnt break apart while in air right ?
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I think the objective of the latest exercise is for the Indians to test out strategies for their older planes such as the Mig21 and Mig27 to defeat newer planes such as the F-16 which the Pakistani Airforce frontline jets is mainly made up of.
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standby for some more horn tooting from some countrymen of our exercise colleagues soon ..... -
Do they allow our AWACS to participate ; or will it unfair ?
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Is it true our F-16 got hammered the last time round?
I read before that one of the India Air Force Colonel said they would use the lower end fighters this time round to see how they fair against the falcons. -
Hammer don't hammer whats the diff? The exercise is for us to learn. I
These air exercises are very wayang one. Everyone has a "role" to play in the exercise and has to stick with it until someone fouls up.
A loose example: If an "enemy flight" is below detection altitude, the BARCAP flight at high altitude are not allowed to engage or do anything special UNLESS one of the enemy flight a/c get itchy, pops up to "detection" altitude.
Its a "learning" process. -
results of international military exercises are never let out.
I believe that the thing about our Vipers being trashed by the IAF at sindex 04 was due to Indian media sensationalisation, probably brought about by the fact that their arch rivals the PAF had the F-16 as their front line fighter.
Although I do admit that the results might have been in their favour and we might have learnt quite a few things, especially from the IAF's Su-30MKIs and their pilots, which aren't exactly very shabby. However, the real results and how the exercise was actually carried out (which might tip the outcome either way) would probably never be known by the public and only by the people in the loop. -
Agreed.Originally posted by sgFish:results of international military exercises are never let out.
I believe that the thing about our Vipers being trashed by the IAF at sindex 04 was due to Indian media sensationalisation, probably brought about by the fact that their arch rivals the PAF had the F-16 as their front line fighter.
Although I do admit that the results might have been in their favour and we might have learnt quite a few things, especially from the IAF's Su-30MKIs and their pilots, which aren't exactly very shabby. However, the real results and how the exercise was actually carried out (which might tip the outcome either way) would probably never be known by the public and only by the people in the loop.
Well, i believe the "results" we are talking about were released by "unnamed sources" in the one of the Indian newspapers.
Until the Indian Air Force actually releases a statement about it, and claim that they beaten RSAF in a wink, then we need have something to discuss lar.
Of course, if that happens, RSAF must come out to defend itself lar... otherwise what the IAF says its true. In similar concept to one of our minister's words...
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just before flightOriginally posted by molgax:the IAF's MIGs didnt break apart while in air right ? -
how did they fair against the israelis ? ....
did they claim they trounced the world's most illustrious jet-fighter force too ? .... -
Only the pilots will know.
The rest is just posturing. It's strategically sound to be painted in a lesser light sometimes.. -
Originally posted by kenn3th:just before flight
so bad better that than after climbing to 10000 feet altitude eh
i tried the jane's simulator yf-22 raptor grey ghost
one mission was mig-21 fishbait they were so slow i had to decrease speed to aim them cause i always over shoot -
The Mig-21 Fishbed with the IAF is upgraded and is called the Mig-21 Bison.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Special/Bison/Visit.html
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Aircraft/Specs/index.html -
Hammered or not is one thing, but remember, face matters. Especially when your sworn enemy is flying the F-16 too. Imagine telling ppl that your planes got their arsed whooped big time by the jets your enemy flies. Or that your jets defeated them but just marginally.
Also, the Indian Airforce is decades older than the RSAF. Once again, imagine telling ppl that an old & established airforce got b*tch slapped by a young airforce, or that you only marginally defeated them. Not too good for morale is it?
I'm not saying the Indian airforce is crap, but just that we should take the "results" with a pinch of salt esp since its not even from a NEUTRAL nor official source. -
The MiG-21s are flying coffins... Thats what some of the IAF pilots call it themselves!
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Mig-21's are old plane. It is used by a large number of countries in various forms and names.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig-21Especially when your sworn enemy is flying the F-16 too.
Who are these sworn enemies?
you will never get the officials announce the result of the exercise since atleast one of them must have faired poorly. Hence the news will be throught the news media who try to get whatever information they can thought the pilots who took part in the exercise.
I think it did not matter much for the IAF who wins or loses. They are more interested in finding the weakness of F-16's and to find whether the upgraded Mig-21's can take out F-16's, if so in what manner. If it is possible it will agument the strength of the IAF, else they are not losing anything.The MiG-21s are flying coffins... Thats what some of the IAF pilots call it themselves!
The IAF don't call its Mig-21's as flying coffins. Its a name given by the media during the crisis when large number of Migs started to crash. That problem was due to some engine problem and was rectified. This has improved the performance of the plane and no more news of crash are heard.
Remember that the Mig-21 with the IAF is upgraded and it is now called the Bison. -
It was an article I distinctively remembered. Trainee pilots in an interview, expressed their fear of the MiG-21s notorious reputation.
As for whether the MiG-21 Bisons are safer or not, I wouldn't know. However, I don't recall the Bison upgrades to have included modification or change to the powerplants. However what made the MiG-21s deadly is not just the powerplant itself, but its design.
Designed as a Mach 2 fighter/interceptor, it has low aspect ratio for an aircraft, suited for high speed flying. But that also means, that flying at low levels would be trickier and requires more precision. Thus, if u decide to task the MiG-21 to do CAS, Bison or not, there WILL be accidents.
On landings especially, landing the MiG-21 would be tricky especially if the aircraft is heavily laden. If the aircraft is too low, and perhaps a bit heavy, instead of instinctively powering up and pulling up, the MiG-21 pilot has to throttle up, and push forward, reduce AOA then pull up. Even in the take off, the MiG-21 cannot afford to pitch up too much, or lose the ability to accelerate. That again, is due to high induced drag, contributed by its very low aspect ratio.
Of course, taking it out of the CAS role completely, would probably half accident rates. Putting it back into its High Speed, High Altitude role, which is what the Bison has done, makes it a lot safer to fly. However, for such an aircraft, don't expect to land it in one piece should some unforeseen failure arise. A pilot would have better chances ejecting.
PS: I heard the Ejection seats don't work too well at low speed low altitudes either.
Comparing against the F-16? Its state of the art FCS, design, and Zero-zero ejection seat makes it a much safer aircraft to fly and fight. Not to mention handling a large variety of roles including low-speed, low altitude CAS roles.
The F-16 in general, especially the modern blocks, is a superior aircraft in all aspects to the Bison. While its only weakness is its rather short legs. Which I feel is a problem common to both the Bison and F-16. -
Double post. =/
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Never really understood why the IAF still want to hang on to the MiG 21. These are almost 40 yrs old..how much more can they squeeze out from those aircraft?
On another note..it did took them near 20 years to decide buying the BAe Hawk..lol -
ia Bison the key word here?Originally posted by Bhagat:Mig-21's are old plane. It is used by a large number of countries in various forms and names.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig-21
The IAF don't call its Mig-21's as flying coffins. Its a name given by the media during the crisis when large number of Migs started to crash. That problem was due to some engine problem and was rectified. This has improved the performance of the plane and no more news of crash are heard.
Remember that the Mig-21 with the IAF is upgraded and it is now called the Bison.
surprisngly is MiG-25 is retired earlier than this!!!! -
Yeah, Bison is the keyword. Bison upgrades keep the MiG-21s viable in the air to air arena, taking out it away from the ground support role. Basically, the further it is from the ground, the safer it is to fly, in a way. =D
So if u ever have a MiG-21 on ur tail, at dogfight range. Take your fight low, and keep making him rack up his AOA. He might just crash. =D