Gotland AIP submarine
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The threat involves a new a new class of silent submarines -- subs that the U.S. Navy is having trouble finding under water. In this exclusive investigation, NBC4's Chuck Henry looked into one of those submarines in San Diego.
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/10116514/detail.html -
Do they cavitate at all?
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We're getting similar ones, the Vastergotland class SSKs..
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cavitiation does not depend on the way the engine runs but the speed of the propellor blades through water. If the prop spins too fast it will definitely cavitate, AIP or notOriginally posted by PointBlue:Do they cavitate at all?
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Depends on the depth as well. If u run near the surface and decide to go flank speed, u will cavitate. Generally, if u gotta move fast, do it deeper to avoid cavitation. The sound of the collapsing air bubbles will attract the attention of every passive sonar operator in the vincinity.
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and that shows he's trying to show off all his knowledge gotten from tom clancy's novels
jking -
ROFLMAOOriginally posted by beavan:and that shows he's trying to show off all his knowledge gotten from tom clancy's novels
jking -
I'm not ashamed to be a fan of the Great Clancy! =D
Seriously, he's a fab military fiction author. He blends in science, science fiction, as well as terrific plots for his novels.
Red Storm Rising: Writes about the "F-119" Frisbee, which turns out to be the F-117 Nighthawk in reality. The SADARM anti armor system, which is only reaching full operational capabilities today.
Debt of Honor: Suicidal japanese airline pilots crashes airliners into buildings. Readers found it too unrealistic and throws harsh criticisms. Look at 9/11?
He's a fantastic novelist that really knows his Military hardware, perhaps with help of inside connections.
/* I read SSN when I was 14, totally fell in love with submarine warfare. Yes, a lot of basis of what I know about submarines comes from that book. So correct me if I make any mistakes ya? */ -
the Vastergotland is actually one generation older than the Gotland. But anything is better than the Sjoormen.
Tom Clancy is actually quite solid, the Pentagon did invite him in to analyse some situation. Love his Hunt for Red October. -
Not really , more like half a gen perhaps.Originally posted by chillycraps:the Vastergotland is actually one generation older than the Gotland. But anything is better than the Sjoormen.
Tom Clancy is actually quite solid, the Pentagon did invite him in to analyse some situation. Love his Hunt for Red October.
After the Swede perfected their Stirling AIP, they decided to build a new class AIP SSK which the result is Gotland which is actually based on the Vastergotland plus AIP from the start of production.
Our Vastergotland with AIP upgrades and perhaps more modern system during the upgrades will have similar or perhaps even better performance( depending on the upgrades & becos newer system is available now) than the Gotland.
Other than the older hull, we are really getting a great AIP SSK at relatively low cost. -
So afterall we might be getting some silent killer in the deep that most sonar can't detect due to our AIP capabilities in our new subs?
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What do you mean? AIP allows the sub to stay submerged longer right? As in it doesn't have to come near the surface to charge it's batteries.
I believe riken was saying that the waters around SG was kinda too noisy for most passive sonar detection. -
I am a great fan of Clancy too! Unfortunately the more recent book as a far cry from the early classics such as the Hunt for Red October, Red Storm Rising...Originally posted by Shotgun:I'm not ashamed to be a fan of the Great Clancy! =D
Seriously, he's a fab military fiction author. He blends in science, science fiction, as well as terrific plots for his novels.
Red Storm Rising: Writes about the "F-119" Frisbee, which turns out to be the F-117 Nighthawk in reality. The SADARM anti armor system, which is only reaching full operational capabilities today.
Debt of Honor: Suicidal japanese airline pilots crashes airliners into buildings. Readers found it too unrealistic and throws harsh criticisms. Look at 9/11?
He's a fantastic novelist that really knows his Military hardware, perhaps with help of inside connections.
/* I read SSN when I was 14, totally fell in love with submarine warfare. Yes, a lot of basis of what I know about submarines comes from that book. So correct me if I make any mistakes ya? */ -
Originally posted by beavan:and that shows he's trying to show off all his knowledge gotten from tom clancy's novels
jking
kns i learnt that word from that old Jane's game called SSN688(I) lor. the sonar guy always say: Conn, Sonar, cavitating. -
LOL! Then ur entire broadband waterfall display goes all bright and fuzzy rite? hahaha!Originally posted by PointBlue: kns i learnt that word from that old Jane's game called SSN688(I) lor. the sonar guy always say: Conn, Sonar, cavitating.
The only other time that happens is when u're crawling at 2 knots, and the towed sonar array starts sinking and dragging the bottom. -
So far we duuno how much upgrades is for our own Vastergotland, but check out the Swede upgrades for it :
http://www.kockums.se/Submarines/sodermanland.html
For example look at our Challenger class , the upgrades is very, very extensive.
New combat console, new engines plus hosts of new sensors including flank array sonar.
Challeger class with new passive flank array sonar.
BTW, the Viking program is dead now, but we remain as an observer for the new Swedish SSK , the A26.
For more info, cheack out this long thread:
http://militarynuts.com/index.php?showtopic=200&st=0 -
FYI....that's not the sonar flank array....at that time still no flank array yet...if u ask me what's that...sorry...can't tell u...Originally posted by gary1910:So far we duuno how much upgrades is for our own Vastergotland, but check out the Swede upgrades for it :
http://www.kockums.se/Submarines/sodermanland.html
For example look at our Challenger class , the upgrades is very, very extensive.
New combat console, new engines plus hosts of new sensors including flank array sonar.
Challeger class with new passive flank array sonar.
BTW, the Viking program is dead now, but we remain as an observer for the new Swedish SSK , the A26.
For more info, cheack out this long thread:
http://militarynuts.com/index.php?showtopic=200&st=0 -
Issit???Originally posted by riken1974:FYI....that's not the sonar flank array....at that time still no flank array yet...if u ask me what's that...sorry...can't tell u...
Everyone was speculating it is, but since you are a former crew, no reason to doubt you. -
Indeed.Originally posted by gary1910:Issit???
Everyone was speculating it is, but since you are a former crew, no reason to doubt you.
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Passive ranging sonar?Originally posted by riken1974:FYI....that's not the sonar flank array....at that time still no flank array yet...if u ask me what's that...sorry...can't tell u... -
oh my goodness, must be Red October's caterpillar system!Originally posted by riken1974:FYI....that's not the sonar flank array....at that time still no flank array yet...if u ask me what's that...sorry...can't tell u... -
from opening posting
Pentagon: New Class Of Silent Submarines Poses Threat,POSTED: 6:54 pm PDT October 19, 2006SAN DIEGO, Calif. -- The Pentagon said it believes the greatest undersea threat facing the U.S. Navy since the end of the Cold War has arrived.
video on demand
The threat involves a new a new class of silent submarines -- subs that the U.S. Navy is having trouble finding under water. In this exclusive investigation, NBC4's Chuck Henry looked into one of those submarines in San Diego.
Following is a verbatim script from the on-air report.
CHUCK HENRY: The threat is real. And it has the Navy so concerned that it's turning to Sweden for help. That's because the Swedes have those silent submarines.
And right now, one of them is stationed at Point Loma. Earlier this month, NBC4 had unprecedented access to the Swedish sub and its crew.
What NBC4 aired few people have ever seen and certainly not in the United States.
On the surface it looks like any other submarine, but the U.S. Navy said it could be the most dangerous sub in the world.
FREDERICK LINDEN: Being noisy is something that is dangerous for us.
HENRY: Fredrick Linden is the commander of the HMS Gotland. He and his crew of 29 call the sub base at Point Loma home. They came to San Diego because the Navy is worried about this new generation of silent subs.
The Pentagon leased the Gotland for one year, but now has extended the lease for a second year, as they try to learn why this submarine so difficult to find underwater.
Subs have always had two weaknesses: they make noise and can't stay submerged very long. But the Gotland runs on a high-tech system called Air Independent Propulsion -- or AIP.
LINDEN: With AIP, I can stay submerged for weeks.
HENRY: Not only can the sub stay submerged for up to a month, the AIP technology also makes it quieter than other subs, and almost impossible to pick up on sonar.
When the Gotland wants to be silent and undetectable, especially along coastal waters, there's not a place it can't go. And that's one of the reasons it's here.
Since last summer the Navy has spent months playing a game of cat and mouse with the Gotland off San Diego, and time after time the Swedish sub has eluded its pursuers.
HENRY (TO COMMANDER): As an adversary, how good are you at what you do?
LINDEN: Very good.
HENRY: Can you tell us about your accomplishments?
LINDEN: We are satisfied with being good.
HENRY: According to Swedish newspapers, in training exercises the Gotland has sunk our most sophisticated nuclear submarines. But perhaps even more disconcerting, it reportedly sunk our largest aircraft carrier, the U.S.S. Reagan.
NORMAN POLMAR, NAVAL ANALYST: She's really run rings around our carrier groups.
HENRY: Norman Polmar is a military analyst specializing in naval intelligence. He says since the end of the cold war, funding of the navy's anti submarine warfare program has been scaled back dramatically.
As the U.S. funnels billions into the war on terror, countries like North Korea, China and Iran are building or trying to get submarines like the Gotland.
Two months ago in the Persian Gulf, Iran tested a new anti-ship missile fired by one of its subs.
If the Iranians are successful in getting a Gotland-class submarine, it could pose a new silent danger to vital oil tanker traffic in the region.
POLMAR: With more of these submarines being bought by countries that don't particularly like us, Iran being a good example, yes, there is a potential. There is a threat.
HENRY: And the commander of the Gotland knows just how vulnerable the United States could be if a sub like his fell into the wrong hands.
HENRY: If you look at our coast, North America, is there any place that you can't go?
LINDEN: No.
HENRY: No place?
Linden then shakes his head.
HENRY: Although this emerging undersea threat is a top priority for the U.S. Navy, the U.S. is committed to its nuclear submarine force, and has no plans to develop subs like the Gotland.
The Navy says it just wants to know how to detect and kill them.
thanks God SG has been learning from Sweden for some times!! -
How I wish I could be on board the Gotland when they run exercises against the USN.
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Hint: Non electronic/electrical/mechanical. Salinity of our local water.Originally posted by Shotgun:Passive ranging sonar?
By the way, have seen the other military nut. Talking about there's another sensor sticking out at the aft of the casing. It's not a sensor, just the stern light for night navigation/ bad weather condition during surface transit. Dun make much sense having a sonar sensor at t he aft of the casing where u will be only hearing your own propeller nosie. -
You've got me... Are our waters or rather tropical waters salty enough that we need to add weights to our submarine? Understandable though... its after all a migrated submarine.Originally posted by riken1974:Hint: Non electronic/electrical/mechanical. Salinity of our local water.
By the way, have seen the other military nut. Talking about there's another sensor sticking out at the aft of the casing. It's not a sensor, just the stern light for night navigation/ bad weather condition during surface transit. Dun make much sense having a sonar sensor at t he aft of the casing where u will be only hearing your own propeller nosie.
Haha, pardon us for mistaking a stern light for some top secret sensor or morse code flasher. Most of us not navy trained or even been involved with sailing.
Btw... you mean some poor sailor has to climb out on the surface of the submarine, in the middle of rough seas or bad weather, at night to attach the navigation light?