SAR 21 new versions-official data
-
M16 magazines compatible.read brochure fr the link below.
bottom fr AA 2006.read link below.Why no such version?
u have to surf spore technologies to look for any new products and related companies to look
for interesting data.It wont appear in press release etc.
look for SAR 21 in the list.M16 magazines compatible.
2..already reported in AA 2006.
3.can share any experiences here?? -
Actually the Sar-21 series are not really expensive.
SAR-21 (Standard) USD$735
SAR-21 P-Rail USD$591
SAR-21 Modular USD$603
The Modular model looks crude.. and not really marketable (Yes, My opinion is that looks are important).
The Sar-21 (standard) has scope problems and eye stress...
Singapore should adopt the P-Rail with fibre optics Red-dot flat scope as standard. You can also fit a 1.5x scope to compliment the red-dot. If I am not wrong Fibre-optics version of reflex-sights do not need batteries.
I mean, the red dot has a lot more potential than the foggy scope, in that the LAD can be eliminated and is always-on-target... makes good and fast target acquisition. Like the TAR-21.. but TAR's the recoil is horrible and unbalanced.
BTW, Why the SAR-21 cannot be acquire by private license in the US, while the Steyr Aug can with a class-3 license ? anybody ?? -
Phew!!! thankfully they never come out with the SAR-21 SAW version, or SAF will be making another big mistake, as I heard they are flirting with the idea of adopting the entire SAR-21 family. Btw, the carbine looks just as long as the original, dun u all think so? The last pic looks good machiam like a personal defense weapon.
-
the carbine is about 68cm long, while the sar 21 is about 80.5 cm. it is still shorter la.
-
The Ultimax may be old but its good. And till such time we can find a SAW which is better & is cost effective, me thinks we should just stick to it.Originally posted by equlus84:Phew!!! thankfully they never come out with the SAR-21 SAW version, or SAF will be making another big mistake, as I heard they are flirting with the idea of adopting the entire SAR-21 family. Btw, the carbine looks just as long as the original, dun u all think so? The last pic looks good machiam like a personal defense weapon.
http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=853
Would be a major mistake replacing the Ultimax with the SAR21 variant.
In fact, the Ultimax is so good that noted gunwriter Charlie Cutshaw, in his article on the Ultimax 100 MK4 for the latest issue of Special Weapons for Military & Police (SWMP), states that the Ultimax 100 MK3/MK4 makes for the best existing answer to the U.S. Marine Corps' (USMC) stated requirements. -
hahah SAF wanna follow america army la... like making their own assault rifles and all... but i think SAR is not a bad rifle... maybe they can look up to the aussie army Styer AUg for improvement..
haha... well honestly... nothing beats the properly service m16
the feeling nvr dies..
-
what's the difference between GL and M203?
and the MMS carbine and carbine -
Compact SAR 21
New kids of SAR 21 family
2.Is this for lady,SOF,body guard hidden somewhere or spy?
3.The without accessories wt is only 1.3 or 1.5 kg plus 0.5kg 25 rounds magazines.i like so light.but there is no data. -
2.Originally posted by relackjack:what's the difference between GL and M203?
CIS 40mm Grenade Launcher (CIS 40 GL) attached to SAR 21 become GL model.
i think it is detachable. -
Is this in 5.56mm? -
2.pl tell us the link of prices and who use SAR 21 family in US?Originally posted by MobyDog:Actually the Sar-21 series are not really expensive.
SAR-21 (Standard) USD$735
SAR-21 P-Rail USD$591
SAR-21 Modular USD$603
tel us the details of users and their comments---good and bad. -
waste of money
-
1) Some arms merchant site I came across.Originally posted by lionnoisy:2.pl tell us the link of prices and who use SAR 21 family in US?
tel us the details of users and their comments---good and bad.
2) Only a small limited numbers were sold to private owners, when the SAR-21 was withdrawn from private ownership. Don't know why. -
Definitely not 5.56mm. The magazine is in the pistol grip.Originally posted by papabear20046:
Is this in 5.56mm?
I guess the calibre would be a sub like 9mm or PDW 5.7mm as SAF already use the P90. 5.7 is also used in the SSW project. -
Please explain...Originally posted by MobyDog:The Sar-21 (standard) has scope problems and eye stress... ??
I agree red-dot scope will be better than scope + LAD option.Originally posted by MobyDog:Singapore should adopt the P-Rail with fibre optics Red-dot flat scope as standard. You can also fit a 1.5x scope to compliment the red-dot. If I am not wrong Fibre-optics version of reflex-sights do not need batteries.
I mean, the red dot has a lot more potential than the foggy scope, in that the LAD can be eliminated and is always-on-target... makes good and fast target acquisition.
But, question: is red dot scope good for long distance target out to 300m? -
Well, the scope fogging is no secret.Originally posted by moca:Please explain...
As for eye stress.. imagine staring and straining your eyes repeatedly thru the scope to acquire targets all the time. And the magnification can only cater to one eye, while the other tries to compensate it mentally... thus stress. Such practice also tends to expose yourself too often to moderately close targets.. because we tends to get too caught up with the target.. forgeting that there are other enemy shooters. Especially when they are moving. The iron sight is crap above the Sar-21 scope .. and the LAD can only do so much a little distance away. Try night shooting with the scope... Our eyes simply cannot coop with it at night...
By itself, there would not be much a problem and is performance is satisfactory. It shoots where it is pointed. you can still hit a target 300m away, only not too precise as with a scope (obviously). The thing is with Reflex-scope, there is no magnification and the red-dot tends to block a little of your view from the target (if it's very far away) (Sun-spot effect). Reflex-scope are intended for moderate distance targets.. and by no means with only by a red dot (that are others virtual sights available) But why compare it with a scope ? Of course, you can have a combination of both.
I agree red-dot scope will be better than scope + LAD option.
But, question: is red dot scope good for long distance target out to 300m?
What are the chances of hitting any moving targets 300m away. One thing about the SAR-21, because of the lack of recoil, you can actually train your scope on the moving target while shooting.. Something, even the TAR-21 and M-16, M4 and even the Steyr Aug cannot do that well. -
2.pl put the links here.Originally posted by MobyDog:1) Some arms merchant site I came across.
2) Only a small limited numbers were sold to private owners, when the SAR-21 was withdrawn from private ownership. Don't know why.
3.u means now civilian cant buy SAR 21 in US? -
Now I haven't handled a SAR-21 but I guess the M16 sharpshooter scope and the SAR-21 integral scope should be quite the same in terms of reticle size and magnification.
Once we borrowed the sharpshooter's weapon to look at some girls in bikini skiing some 200m away.
The big shock was that for many of us unfamiliar with scopes, it took us a damn long time to find our 'targets'. And it was just the empty sea with nothing else to confuse us.
For some, they couldn't sight the skiiers at all as they were not used to opening both eyes when aiming. But even with both eyes open it was confusing as your left eye sight is unmagnified.
And the tunnel vision was terrible and what I saw was a small sight picture surrounded by a lot of black colour.
Does any SAR-21 user had the same problem? -
It's great to hear the new SAR-21 can accommodate M16 magazines.
It was a stupid move to make it handle only proprietary plastic mags to begin with.
But is this only for export models or applies to SAF use?
Because the very original models being shown all over the world were already M16 mags capable.
This pic from Modern Firearms is a very old one, and is M16 mag friendly.
-
And as seen in the recent NDP, it seems they can also take bayonets.
So it seems that 2 silly mistakes had been fixed.
Now all we need a decent pair of open sights and perhaps get rid of the LAD to reduce weight? -
The eye's supposed to be placed about 3-4 finger breadths away from the scope and not right up to the eyepiece. And the trick which works for me, is that you find a prominent object for your eye to focus on first then slowly work your way around. I don't quite see the reason behind using an M16 with sharpshooter scope other then logistical reasons. Shouldn't the section marksmen be armed with a semi-auto accurasized weapon as opposed to something just off the production line?Originally posted by moca:Now I haven't handled a SAR-21 but I guess the M16 sharpshooter scope and the SAR-21 integral scope should be quite the same in terms of reticle size and magnification.
Once we borrowed the sharpshooter's weapon to look at some girls in bikini skiing some 200m away.
The big shock was that for many of us unfamiliar with scopes, it took us a damn long time to find our 'targets'. And it was just the empty sea with nothing else to confuse us.
For some, they couldn't sight the skiiers at all as they were not used to opening both eyes when aiming. But even with both eyes open it was confusing as your left eye sight is unmagnified.
And the tunnel vision was terrible and what I saw was a small sight picture surrounded by a lot of black colour.
Does any SAR-21 user had the same problem? -
Just curious, how much does the LAD weigh actually? I was personally surprised to see the SAR21 being able to be fitted with bayonets too. Spoke to my friend in Armour, he was saying that the SAR21 still can't be fitted with M16 STANMAGs. So perhaps its limited to the export platform, as several US SWAT teams has expressed interest in it. And they probably have more STANMAGs then any other nation in the world, thus we've to adapt to hopefully get their business.Originally posted by moca:And as seen in the recent NDP, it seems they can also take bayonets.
So it seems that 2 silly mistakes had been fixed.
Now all we need a decent pair of open sights and perhaps get rid of the LAD to reduce weight?
Anybody can share why doesn't the SAF issue troopers with the P-rail version instead?It makes more sense, as it allows the mounting of a variety of accessories unlike the standard version. Btw, to existing users of SAR21, with the old M16, you can tape 2 magazines together to help in quick reloading, but what about the SAR21? Thanks in advance! -
Nope, the 1.5x scope doesn't cause a problem like that at all. The magnification is really too small to cause that kinda problems. That may happen when u're looking through a 4x sniper scope though.Originally posted by moca:Now I haven't handled a SAR-21 but I guess the M16 sharpshooter scope and the SAR-21 integral scope should be quite the same in terms of reticle size and magnification.
Once we borrowed the sharpshooter's weapon to look at some girls in bikini skiing some 200m away.
The big shock was that for many of us unfamiliar with scopes, it took us a damn long time to find our 'targets'. And it was just the empty sea with nothing else to confuse us.
For some, they couldn't sight the skiiers at all as they were not used to opening both eyes when aiming. But even with both eyes open it was confusing as your left eye sight is unmagnified.
And the tunnel vision was terrible and what I saw was a small sight picture surrounded by a lot of black colour.
Does any SAR-21 user had the same problem?
1.5x scope is comfortable enuff for the shooter to open both of his eyes, to shoot. Allows greater situational awareness and accuracy as well.
I agree that the current SAR-21 is not a good product for the SAF. A better system would have been the Sar-21 carbine in the first place. No, useless LAD, just a good reflex sight. -
This question is now irrelevant as all SAR-21 is scoped, effectively making everyone a potential 'sharpshooter'.Originally posted by SpecOps87:The eye's supposed to be placed about 3-4 finger breadths away from the scope and not right up to the eyepiece. And the trick which works for me, is that you find a prominent object for your eye to focus on first then slowly work your way around. I don't quite see the reason behind using an M16 with sharpshooter scope other then logistical reasons. Shouldn't the section marksmen be armed with a semi-auto accurasized weapon as opposed to something just off the production line?
But in the old days, the sharpshooter in SAF infantry sections were merely riflemen with a scoped weapon, and in SAF there isn't the luxury of having 'accurized' M16. They are not snipers, just infantrymen.
How they designate 'sharpshooters' is again haphazard. I get marksman grade everytime at the range - better than all the 'sharpshooters' in my platoon, but I am not a designated 'sharpshooter'. Some of the designated sharpshooters were downright bad shooters. -
Taping 2 magazines together may be OK for urban fighting. For the jungle or any soil or sandy area, it is a very bad idea as the rounds in the other mag that's taped upside down would get dirty when you prone etc, causing stoppages later.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Btw, to existing users of SAR21, with the old M16, you can tape 2 magazines together to help in quick reloading, but what about the SAR21? Thanks in advance!
It also makes the weapon uncomfortably heavy. I can only imagine people (especically guerillas) do it cos they saw it in the movies and think it is cool. Or tey don't have ammo webbing to carry spare mags.
The other option is to have proper magazine clips which would hold both (or even three) of the mags in upright position.