Underwater assault Rifle
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I think that is the result of painOriginally posted by moca:The most dramatic photo of a guy being hit was that of a rifleman in the Spanish Civil War. He neither flew forward nor backward. But the impact of the bullet caused him to throw out his arms and fling off his rifle as his knees buckle under him. -
yea.. pain n v normal human nervous reaction..
can test at home if u want...
hold a glass of water...
then ur sis/mum/gf/wife/whoever.... pokes ur butt or something with a needle/sharp knife.
most of the time.. u'll drop the glass/almost drop it..
u must not anticipate the poking tho...
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ooops double post...~
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When hit by a bullet or two , the unfortunate casualty just drops like a ton of bricks. Hollywood dramatizes it. The momentum of a 5.56 or 7.62 bullet is insufficient to throw a person a couple of meters when hit. Otherwise, it will do the same to the firer - remember your old school chum Newton ? - for every action, there is an equal & opposite reaction.
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There IS an opposite reaction when you fire a weapon, but the recoil spring absorbs most of it.Originally posted by glock:When hit by a bullet or two , the unfortunate casualty just drops like a ton of bricks. Hollywood dramatizes it. The momentum of a 5.56 or 7.62 bullet is insufficient to throw a person a couple of meters when hit. Otherwise, it will do the same to the firer - remember your old school chum Newton ? - for every action, there is an equal & opposite reaction.
Still, some is transferred to your body which is why you must adopt a proper stance especially with the more powerful weapons. -
Originally posted by geodome:
George Orwell was shot in this same conflict (Spanish Civil War), and I think he described it in his book 'Homage to Catalonia' or something.
I think that is the result of [b]pain[/b]
Can anyone recall his description?
I think he said that at first he didn't know he was shot - cos he had never been shot before. He didn't feel pain at first but felt like he was whacked from behind and he fell down.
Of course, different folks, different strokes. -
So you mean that if I were to fire any weapon that doesn't have a recoil spring I would fly backwards 6 feet.Originally posted by moca:There IS an opposite reaction when you fire a weapon, but the recoil spring absorbs most of it.
Still, some is transferred to your body which is why you must adopt a proper stance especially with the more powerful weapons.
Unless the design of firearms have changed overnight, I'm certain that the bolt action rifles, revolvers, lever action rifles, pump action shotguns etc. that I've used don't have recoil springs.
That would mean I was at risk of breaking/dislocating my arm everytime I pulled the trigger on those weapons.
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I think there's more physics to it than described. I'm no physicist, but this is what i figured. The instant u pull the trigger, the percussion cap is struck and the explosive force drives the round out the barrel. That instantaneous pop is what begins the recoil action. The pressure will try to escape from the point of weakest resistance, so the "recoiling" feeling we feel is the pressure, pushing the bullet out of the barrel. That recoil dies immediately as soon as the bullet exits the barrel cos the pressure is then escaping already.Originally posted by Raptor937:So you mean that if I were to fire any weapon that doesn't have a recoil spring I would fly backwards 6 feet.
Unless the design of firearms have changed overnight, I'm certain that the bolt action rifles, revolvers, lever action rifles, pump action shotguns etc. that I've used don't have recoil springs.
That would mean I was at risk of breaking/dislocating my arm everytime I pulled the trigger on those weapons.
the recoil dampner thing in the butt-spring in the M-16 is there to absorb the initial shock and push for every round fired. Otherwise, it would be abit to fire the weapon rapidly if it was gonna disrupt the firer with recoil every single shot.
I think the newer sniper rifles such as the PSG-1 or Hecates have recoil-dampner things as well. -
which fire 5.66 mm needle-like projectiles 120 mm long
haiya...the gun fires needle-like projectiles. not the normal 5.56mm FMJ. why want to talk about 9mm vs 5.56mm performance underwater?
there's another gun from the russians that looked like a revolver but fires similar projectiles shown above. -
Oh yeah... I saw something like that b4. 4 barrels, with one round loaded each. Effective distance about 11-17 meters nia.Originally posted by ferryman2393:haiya...the gun fires needle-like projectiles. not the normal 5.56mm FMJ. why want to talk about 9mm vs 5.56mm performance underwater?
there's another gun from the russians that looked like a revolver but fires similar projectiles shown above. -
Please show the part where I said '6 feet'.Originally posted by Raptor937:So you mean that if I were to fire any weapon that doesn't have a recoil spring I would fly backwards 6 feet.
Unless the design of firearms have changed overnight, I'm certain that the bolt action rifles, revolvers, lever action rifles, pump action shotguns etc. that I've used don't have recoil springs.
That would mean I was at risk of breaking/dislocating my arm everytime I pulled the trigger on those weapons.
Otherwise you've just based your whole senseless post on something I never said.
If you insist there is no recoil when discharging a firearm, you've probably never fired one before and you are talking rubbish.
Just because recoil doesn't knock firers back '6 feet' doesn't mean there's no recoil. -
no one was ever arguing that weapons have no recoil. what they were saying is that you don't get thrown back when you're shot. even when you watch the gulf war 2 videos of the iraqis being shot by m16s, they don't get thrown back, they just simply drop dead. only time they get thrown back, is when they're shot at by apaches, which is simply overkill, because they're are thrown back, they're blown apart.
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5.56 FMJ rounds shouldn't throw you back if it doesn't hit something bullet resistant. All the kinetic energy is use to penetrate rather than to "knock back." Only when the bullet fails to penetrate, then u'll feel the punch.
If i'm not wrong, a person would get thrown back a little bit if he kena a JHP round instead. -
I never said there was no recoil, I said Newton's law applied.Originally posted by moca:Please show the part where I said '6 feet'.
Otherwise you've just based your whole senseless post on something I never said.
If you insist there is no recoil when discharging a firearm, you've probably never fired one before and you are talking rubbish.
Just because recoil doesn't knock firers back '6 feet' doesn't mean there's no recoil.
"For every action there would be an opposite and equal reaction."
You saidThere IS an opposite reaction when you fire a weapon, but the recoil spring absorbs most of it.
Then I pointed out thatI'm certain that the bolt action rifles, revolvers, lever action rifles, pump action shotguns etc. that I've used don't have recoil springs.
I get the full impact of the recoil and if I didn't dislocate my shoulder or fly backwards, there is no way the target would.
My point is that the results of their tests were valid.
There is NO way a person would be thrown backwards when shot. -
Not quite true.Originally posted by Shotgun:I think there's more physics to it than described. I'm no physicist, but this is what i figured. The instant u pull the trigger, the percussion cap is struck and the explosive force drives the round out the barrel. That instantaneous pop is what begins the recoil action. The pressure will try to escape from the point of weakest resistance, so the "recoiling" feeling we feel is the pressure, pushing the bullet out of the barrel. That recoil dies immediately as soon as the bullet exits the barrel cos the pressure is then escaping already.
When the powder in the chambered cartridge is ignited, the expanding gases push equally in all directions. The projectile is pushed into the rifling and begins its journey down the barrel bore. At this point, the expanding gases are pushing equally against the breechface and the base of the advancing projectile (which is still physically in contact with the barrel). Both forces cancel each other out and the firearm remains immobile.
Thus, there is no felt recoil as the projectile is being propelled down the barrel. Recoil only begins at the point the projectile exits the barrel. When the projectile leaves the barrel, two things happen:
1. The projectile no longer exerts a forward drag on the barrel to counter the force of the gases pushing back against the breechface, and
2. The expanding gases are vented forcefully out the front of the barrel.
On a semi-auto pistol, the entire slide now starts moving rearward against the pressure of the recoil spring to begin the recoil cycle. The spent case is extracted from the chamber, hits the ejector and is thrown clear; the slide hits the rear stop in the frame and the compressed recoil spring expands to push the slide forward into battery, stripping the topmost cartridge from the magazine and chambering it in the process. This completes the recoil cycle and the pistol is once again ready to be fired.
There is some high-speed footage shot by a German researcher illustrating what I've written above. I'll try to locate and post a link to it later today.
MG -
Originally posted by Meia Gisborn:
Very clear and detailed explanation! Thanks! Would love to see the footage.
Not quite true.
When the powder in the chambered cartridge is ignited, the expanding gases push equally in all directions. The projectile is pushed into the rifling and begins its journey down the barrel bore. At this point, the expanding gases are pushing equally against the breechface and the base of the advancing projectile (which is still physically in contact with the barrel). Both forces cancel each other out and the firearm remains immobile.
Thus, there is no felt recoil as the projectile is being propelled down the barrel. [b]Recoil only begins at the point the projectile exits the barrel. When the projectile leaves the barrel, two things happen:
1. The projectile no longer exerts a forward drag on the barrel to counter the force of the gases pushing back against the breechface, and
2. The expanding gases are vented forcefully out the front of the barrel.
On a semi-auto pistol, the entire slide now starts moving rearward against the pressure of the recoil spring to begin the recoil cycle. The spent case is extracted from the chamber, hits the ejector and is thrown clear; the slide hits the rear stop in the frame and the compressed recoil spring expands to push the slide forward into battery, stripping the topmost cartridge from the magazine and chambering it in the process. This completes the recoil cycle and the pistol is once again ready to be fired.
There is some high-speed footage shot by a German researcher illustrating what I've written above. I'll try to locate and post a link to it later today.
MG
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My apologies for this late follow-up. I had a heck of a time trying to locate the footage.Originally posted by Shotgun:Very clear and detailed explanation! Thanks! Would love to see the footage.
Anyway, here it is: Ultra-slow-motion video of Glock 18 firing full auto You can quite clearly see that the projectile has left the barrel before the slide begins recoiling rearward.
You can go to this website for more fabulous slo-mo footage of various firearms being discharged. -
Thanks again! No worries. Been a bit distracted by the most explosive news of 2006 as well. =D