RAF Chinook downwash allegedly sets off land mines
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Hi forumnites, a recent and strange allegation that the heavy downwash from a Chinook helicopter can set off landmines exploding.
The Ministry of Defence has said that there was no evidence to support claims that a landmine blast which killed a Para corporal in Afghanistan was caused by the downdraft from an RAF helicopter.
The Sun newspaper reported that the twin-rotor Chinook sent to rescue Cpl Mark Wright and his 3 Para patrol after they became stranded in a minefield earlier this month set off at least two explosions.
According to the paper, Cpl Wright had specified that a smaller helicopter should be sent when he radioed for help, but his request was ignored.
Following the incident, in which five other paras were injured - three losing legs, Cpl Wright's commanding officer said he had died trying to save a comrade who had been injured in an earlier blast.
The Sun quoted a member of the Para patrol as telling comrades: "Mark radioed the ops room but specified they must not send in a Chinook.
"Their downdraft is massive and anyone with any RAF experience knows they would be liable to set off mines as they hover."
The Para said that the Chinook was forced to leave empty after setting off at least two mines.
The patrol was eventually rescued by a smaller US Army Blackhawk helicopter but Cpl Wright died of his injuries on the aircraft.
The MoD however insisted that there was nothing to support the soldier's claims and criticised his decision to speak out publicly.
The latest controversy follows the disclosure of e-mails from a major in the Paras complaining that the RAF in Afghanistan had been "utterly, utterly useless". -
if the downdraft can sets of landmines, it will be a good discovery so they can now use it to clear landmines
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1 - Its 'The Sun'. Not exactly a paragon of integrity and objectivity
2 - having said that it is plausible that the downwash might set off mines - either due to the force of the downwash, or due to the debris flying around. After all the Cpl specifically asked for a smaller helicopter rather than a chinook - this implies that they have experience of that happening. -
in war sh!t happens. and yes a downwash of the chinook is great. if a 80++kg man standing near a landing chinook might have the chance to get 'blown' away
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Ya, but to clear landmines with a chinook... later the chinook kena damaged by the landmines. Lagi worse.
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Note the downwash does not directly trigger the land mines, most probably anti-personnel.
The downwash blast the small rocks, rocks of significant size to trigger the mines. -
Yes, tend to agree that the downwash itself may not create enough ground pressure on the landmine or anti-personnel mine to trigger it.
It could be that the downwash lifted some large stones and flung them down on the mine. This could create sufficient impulse to trigger the anti-personnel mine ( which is the more likely type of mine).
And yes, the SUN is a sensationalist newspaper. They were capitalising on a recent article that a major in the British Paras had leaked an email criticising the RAF. -
what is a downwash?
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u know when heilcopter blade turning got a strong 'wind'? chinook got 6 blades and when its landing the strong 'wind' will created thats downwash. hartd to explain to u lah, u must experience its b4 then u knowOriginally posted by missqi:what is a downwash?
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woah!Originally posted by martin_lim85:u know when heilcopter blade turning got a strong 'wind'? chinook got 6 blades and when its landing the strong 'wind' will created thats downwash. hartd to explain to u lah, u must experience its b4 then u know
HK movie!
i know i know!
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still got one time the downwash of the chinook is strong that the pebble nearly hit me
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HK movie??? which 1?Originally posted by missqi:woah!
HK movie!
i know i know! -
dont know leh.Originally posted by martin_lim85:HK movie??? which 1?
got jungle and sea one. -
I think down wash is a real serious thing. Bcos those who did heli rappeling will know how fast one goes down the rope due to down wash. If u did it from an ordinary building, the speed is very much slower. But i don't think the down wash is strong enough to trigger mines. But some times dunno why our unit so kanchiong, must remove helmet net and not lose items to be hung outside, when taking helo
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FODs aka Flight O(???) Debris cos loose item may cause alot of trouble in runway things get to fall off if these things fall off and cos the aircraft to malfunction thats badOriginally posted by equlus84:I think down wash is a real serious thing. Bcos those who did heli rappeling will know how fast one goes down the rope due to down wash. If u did it from an ordinary building, the speed is very much slower. But i don't think the down wash is strong enough to trigger mines. But some times dunno why our unit so kanchiong, must remove helmet net and not lose items to be hung outside, when taking helo -
FOD- Free of Debris.
Yup down wash of chinook can really blow a 80+ kg man away...1st hand experience when I was hook up man for the whole air task...the down wash literally made me run or should i say fly on air -
haha i think Free of Debris is correct ba i only remember the D is debrisOriginally posted by ah san:FOD- Free of Debris.
Yup down wash of chinook can really blow a 80+ kg man away...1st hand experience when I was hook up man for the whole air task...the down wash literally made me run or should i say fly on air 
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http://www.ultimateuploads.com/video/videos/177c5a343da37c0ec9530c6db9ccd95f/CH%20LANDING%202.wmv
heres a video i have taken, take a close look at the grass swriling and 'flying' around/away? that downwash -
FOD--- Foreign Objects & Debris
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Originally posted by specfore:
Maybe some f***er officers could have brushed a side this Cpl, maybe thinking "What would this Cpl know? He is just a Cpl!
According to the paper, Cpl Wright had specified that a smaller helicopter should be sent when he radioed for help, but his request was ignored.
Following the incident, in which five other paras were injured - three losing legs, Cpl Wright's commanding officer said he had died trying to save a comrade who had been injured in an earlier blast.
Cpl voice too small, maybe if he was some major, colonel or general and maybe someone would listen to him then.
That poor Cpl should be given some medal, not just purple heart, medal of honour or an victorian cross. -
I am very sure he was given a medal but I can't remember which. [edit - it was the George Cross; VC is for action whilst in combat.]
Anyway, I doubt the officer will think in that way. This is the British Army, not the SAF - Cpls are section commanders and will have had several years experience under his belt. Further, this is the parachute regiment; they are at the vanguard of the battle raging on in Afghanistan now and have been for months.
More likely, the RAF and Army is under-equipped for the task at hand and could only send out what they had. -
Wrong chap. The guy who got a VC ( the highest decoration) is a private with a Mechanised Infantry batalion. He was driving a Warrior IFV in Iraq not Afghanistan. He was promoted last week to Lance Corporal but he is still on sick leave as he was injured.
The CPL here is serving with the Paras in Afghanistan.
I do not agree with the assessment that because he was a CPL, someone let him down. If you understand batalion ops, the patrol leader calls into the Bn ops net. And very likely you speak to the duty Ops officer or NCO or signaller at that time. They may rank above you but they are part of your unit. Soldiers will try to look after their own.
It is very likely that the batalion did relay the request of the patrol to the Air Tasking Cell ( which is usually a joint army and air force manned section). Air Tasking may have denied the request . For the RAF, they are very short of helicopters, so they may have had no choice but to send a Chinook. -
I know; I siad Cpl Wright got the george cross and not the VC because he was not in combat, unlike Lcp Berharry.Originally posted by specfore:Wrong chap. The guy who got a VC ( the highest decoration) is a private with a Mechanised Infantry batalion. He was driving a Warrior IFV in Iraq not Afghanistan. He was promoted last week to Lance Corporal but he is still on sick leave as he was injured.
The CPL here is serving with the Paras in Afghanistan. -
I heard from my DY S4 tat during 1 of his training a guy was stung by bees n they were deep in e jungle so called for copter but only got chinook so chinook came but e downwash leads to 2 others guy being injured by flying branchs n tree LOGS in e end must airlift all 3
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To get an idea of how strong the downwash/downdraught of the chinook is, look at this video.
Look at the footage about 00:25.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-2373295406550494286