arti bombardment
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this question have been running thru my mind for so long ever since i watched my 1st war movie. how to call for correct coordinates on the map for arti/plane bombardment ? how do u know the coordinates for the bunker that is 300m away from u when u want a bombardment on that?
whoever learned this before mind explaining? i hope this topic is not that sensitive , if yes , go ahead n remove this thread. -
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Assuming ad-hoc fire mission--that is un-preplanned artillary,
and using unguided arty rounds:
1st, u need to locate your target's location on the map.
The coordinates is when the arty will rain down its rounds on.
If u get the coordinates wrong, then the arty will not hit the bunker.
So good topo skill is very impt (but nowadays got GPS).
2nd, raise the arty request to the proper channel. PC level can call for arty.
If u hv a FO (Forward Observer) attached, then he can do the job for u or u can relay your target MGR to him.
If not, then raise it to battlion level. Battlion has organic 81mm. Sometimes, the battlion might have the division's 155mm battlion allocated to it, then u have 155mm.
3rd, after the arty unit gets the target MGR, it needs to adjust its guns to fire on the target. The arty guns would have been "zeroed" onto a reference point in advanced once it got into position. So it just needs to offset from this zero position to get onto the target MGR. Once the guns are adjusted, then they will fire.
4th, the first salvo will land. The FO/PC will note where the rounds land and rely back on whether on target (next is Fire For Effect) or rely adjust left/right long/short.
Once the salvo is on target, the guns will continue firing. The battlion of 12x155s will fire 6 times per request, giving u 72 rounds of 155 raining on the target! If u need more, then request again.
For planned arty mission, the targets are planned and zeroed on in advanced. Eg: enemy suspected position. The order to fire on specific targets are given codewords eg: Susan.
Once the troops are in position, u just need to give the codeword Susan and the guns will do their bombardment. Then u wait until the bombardment is completed and lifted. -
For arty you need to determine the mgr of the target. Then you need to zero the arty. So you might call for one round first. Then you adjust the fire according to where the round lands eg "down 100", "left 100" etc.Originally posted by givemeluck:this question have been running thru my mind for so long ever since i watched my 1st war movie. how to call for correct coordinates on the map for arti/plane bombardment ? how do u know the coordinates for the bunker that is 300m away from u when u want a bombardment on that?
whoever learned this before mind explaining? i hope this topic is not that sensitive , if yes , go ahead n remove this thread.
When near enough you call for whatever it is you wanted lor...
edit: Right, I see that you want to know how to determine the co-ord of a location? That is easy and anyone who knows anything about navigation should be able to do so.
If you know your location, and you use a rangefinder of some sort to measure how far the target is, and then you use a compass to find what what bearing the target is relative to you, you will with the aid of a map be able to find the coords.
Eg: You are at xxx yyy, the target is 100m North-East. You find your position on the map. Then you find out how long 100m on the map. Then (maybe using a string representing that 100m) you plot out the point 100m NE of you on the map. Voila. -
Correct me if I'm wrong... but I thought a standard infantry battalion has an organic 120mm mortar platoon?Originally posted by goldenretriever:If not, then raise it to battlion level. Battlion has organic 81mm...... -
cool , thx for the detailed ans . i have another question , how those artillery zeroed on that certain coordinates? is it something like how m203 grenade launcher work?
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Not like the M203 (though the principle is smiliar), for the M203 to be used you usually have to see the target. Arty guns are aimed by observers who tell the guns the amount to shift. Of course if you are more anal you might throw in a FCS computer to calculate ambient temperature, wind, humidity, barrel wear, type of ammo, kind of fire and stuff.
Oh yeah, got different kind of arty strikes as well... I think the TOT (time on target) one is cool, by different batteries stagger their firing under carefully calculated intervals so that all the salvos from all the batteries will arrive at almost the same instant. The effect can be more tremedous compared to rounds falling on the target over a longer period of time. -
Go SOA la. they will teach u.
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There is a calculater that will help the firers. I had the opportunity to direct mortar once.Originally posted by givemeluck:cool , thx for the detailed ans . i have another question , how those artillery zeroed on that certain coordinates? is it something like how m203 grenade launcher work?
Called out coords...waited....and waited....and waited..........Boom one round.
called out adjustments and waited....and waited....and waited....and
waited...and waited....Boom. you get the idea. If there were any enemies down there, I reckon they would have packed up, loaded up, did area cleaning and be on ther merry way already.
Apparently, this is due to safety and they can be way way quicker. -
yes you're right ....Originally posted by fudgester:Correct me if I'm wrong... but I thought a standard infantry battalion has an organic 120mm mortar platoon?
(at least during my time) ... the only unit using 81s were the motar platoon of a group of boys based at an ulu camp near changi point .....
which doesn't make sense to me .... the 120 seems rather unweldy.... -
For arty, they don't have to be very accurate.
Eg: For 155, their 72 rounds are to land within a 50m by 50m square, within a minute. So that should be devasting enough for open troops.
At the division level, the fire support assets would have been planned and allocated in advanced. Division has 155. But no pt division commander hold onto it since he's not likely to be near the front. So he might allocate to the pt battlion.
In addition to organic 155, there is still the air force's 50-70 F-16s to support the 3 main Divisions and now, the apaches. The air supportwould probably be called by the FO, who would probably be stationed to travel with the pt battlion.
So once u encounter resistance, the SOP is to call in fire support to pulverise the target first, before moving in.
Oh, don't forget in a division level move, there are also fire support from the tanks from the SAB.
For a bunker, I wouldn't call arty indirect fire on it. I would go with direct fire.
I would try with the good-old (indeed old) 84 Carl Gustav. Our LAW might be worth a shot as well. If not, can try using the bunker-busting battlion level Milan (hope it works). Else, call in the Bionixes. -
no more already. chopped over to arty instituteOriginally posted by Eragon:Go SOA la. they will teach u. -
Ok, during ops, there will not be one round ranging. It will be a battery salvo ranging. Fire mission battery, urgent... Battery salvo ranging...
Reason is simple, the enemy will run away once they hear arty rounds landing. And most of the time, most arty fires will be pre-planned. Only when resistance encountered is above a platoon level then FO will call for fire.
Most of the time, the battalion will only have one 155mm battery supporting them, and their organic 120mm mortar. -
not really battery ranging. depends on what kind of a target it is. if it's a moving target then yes battery will range.Originally posted by relackjack:Ok, during ops, there will not be one round ranging. It will be a battery salvo ranging. Fire mission battery, urgent... Battery salvo ranging...
Reason is simple, the enemy will run away once they hear arty rounds landing. And most of the time, most arty fires will be pre-planned. Only when resistance encountered is above a platoon level then FO will call for fire.
Most of the time, the battalion will only have one 155mm battery supporting them, and their organic 120mm mortar.
but if it's a dug in enemy coy then theres no point wasting bombs -
How many tubes in one battery?Originally posted by relackjack:Ok, during ops, there will not be one round ranging. It will be a battery salvo ranging. Fire mission battery, urgent... Battery salvo ranging...
Reason is simple, the enemy will run away once they hear arty rounds landing. And most of the time, most arty fires will be pre-planned. Only when resistance encountered is above a platoon level then FO will call for fire.
Most of the time, the battalion will only have one 155mm battery supporting them, and their organic 120mm mortar.
Does a 155 battery have the same number of tubes as a 120 battery? -
Oh this will depend on the individual FO's judgement I guess. Don't forget if enemy hears arty rounds they can immediately jump into their trenches or even go reverse slope. The inital EN is supposed to catch them off guard.Originally posted by beavan:not really battery ranging. depends on what kind of a target it is. if it's a moving target then yes battery will range.
but if it's a dug in enemy coy then theres no point wasting bombs -
depends on which platform u are talking about. i don't want to give out this data so u go find it out urself.Originally posted by moca:How many tubes in one battery?
Does a 155 battery have the same number of tubes as a 120 battery? -
yes that's why there are many other forms of ranging available. all depends on the FO's judgement and how much brains he has.Originally posted by relackjack:Oh this will depend on the individual FO's judgement I guess. Don't forget if enemy hears arty rounds they can immediately jump into their trenches or even go reverse slope. The inital EN is supposed to catch them off guard. -
my previous FO.... arty my own base!!Originally posted by beavan:yes that's why there are many other forms of ranging available. all depends on the FO's judgement and how much brains he has.
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haha!! sure or not? he got kena F upside down?Originally posted by tripwire:my previous FO.... arty my own base!! 
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you BET!! we will winning in the beginning.. our defence position were super, the enemy was totally being massacred like flies...Originally posted by saline:haha!! sure or not? he got kena F upside down?
the arty is suppose to be the icing on the top of the cake... to finish the exercise with a BANG...
BANG... it did... my unit got BANGED by friendly arty!!...
my RSM was giving the middle finger everywhere...cursing "OOOFFFIICEER!" and the usual LP CB KNN CCB recital -
think he mapspot wrongly
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This is the most useless reply ever...Originally posted by beavan:depends on which platform u are talking about. i don't want to give out this data so u go find it out urself.
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What time was that?Originally posted by Fatum:yes you're right ....
(at least during my time) ... the only unit using 81s were the motar platoon of a group of boys based at an ulu camp near changi point .....
which doesn't make sense to me .... the 120 seems rather unweldy....
During the time before me, during my time and during the time after me, most infantry battalions use the 81mm mortar. These will be found only in the Support Company (usually Delta) integral to each rifle battalion. How they are organised within the Support Company I'm not sure.
120mm mortar have always been Arty regiment assets.
This nice short video shows modern Russian 82mm mortars in action.
http://warfare.ru/?linkid=2432&catid=240&video=true&id=166 -
2000 to 2003 .... well ... I was mono intake, and those chaps who got into the mortar platoon had to go take a course in the 120 and convert to the 81 when they come back, we were told we were the only unit using the 81 .... so it's not so then eh ? .... ayone got more takes on this ? ...Originally posted by moca:What time was that?
During the time before me, during my time and during the time after me, most infantry battalions use the 81mm mortar. These will be found only in the Support Company (usually Delta) integral to each rifle battalion. How they are organised within the Support Company I'm not sure.
120mm mortar have always been Arty regiment assets.
This nice short video shows modern Russian 82mm mortars in action.
http://warfare.ru/?linkid=2432&catid=240&video=true&id=166