Could Singapore been held?
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We are ALL dangerous, it's what we choose to do with that nature that matters.
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Then why the big shock that Churchill had after the surrender? Somebody doing stuff behind their bosses' back?Originally posted by moca:The fact that he overestimated the strength of the Japanese troops is not enough reason for surrender.
The fact was that irregardless of the strength of the Japanese, he had more than enough men to hold the island at least for a few days if not weeks if they have more determination. Yes it would be hell but HEY - it's war!!!
We read courageious people give up when they are down to their last round of ammo, or everyone's dead or dying...etc.
But Percival was not lacking manpower, ammunition, and no one is dying of thirst or hunger.
THEY JUST SIMPLY GAVE UP!!!
There was not one Singaporean - military or civvy - who tried to persuade the British against fighting the Japs in order to spare Singapore from further destruction. I think most Singaporeans had a pretty good idea what the Japs will do once they arrive. So it was preferable to fight or die trying - like Lt Adnan & Lim Bo Seng - than to be butchered helplessly as a surrendered people.
That's why I think Percival deserved a court martial. His incompetence tarnished the image of the "angmo" forever.
But again, like I said, his decision to surrender must have had the agreement of London, which is why he wasn't tried so that other VIPs in London won't be implicated in the debacle. -
It's easy to lynch somebody with 20/20 hindsight, but when you are there on the ground things may not be so clear.
I think Percival was more of a victim of the system, and much of history has been unfairly blamed on him. He was working within the limitations of the British doctrine on fighting in asia back then, and it could be argued that had he been given more space to order the battle about unhindered, the Japanese would have seen quite another thing when they tried for asia.
In any case I don't think he was under the impression that the battle was winnable at that point of time, he has no idea of the true Japanese situtation and thought that there was plenty more where that came from.
So from his point of at that time, the Japanese could not be held off with any meaningful kind of resolution. They had air superiority, were beating his troops at almost every turn, and there seemed to be no resolution in resistance except extensive damage to Singapore and her people.
The Brits had gravely underestimated their Japanese opponents and once that happened they lost even an ability to get a proper idea of what they were really up against. It almost certainly was that after realizing they had underestimated their opponents... they ended up overestimating them.
In surrendering Singapore Percival was (from his view of things) choosing the lesser of the two evils. He didn't think that the battle could be won and further resistance would be futile and cost prehaps the needless loss of all life. While there were able bodied men that could fight, Percival had to think of all the women, children and others that would have nowhere to run had the battle raged on.
Of course, now we know that if he had held out and re-orged, trying to hold the Japanese out for just a few more days, he might have gotten a surprise in that the fighting ability of the Japanese would have been drastically reduced. But of course he never got to that point, for the Japanese commander made his bluff and he believed it.
But he didn't have any reason not to disbelieve that the Japanese would win. He had no intelligence on the real state of the Japanese supplies and numbers, and the way the battle was going then seemed to all point in the way of a Japanese ability to fight and win. -
Prince of Wales and Repluse are not suckalong the way to Singapore. they both "reached" Singapore forming Force Z.Originally posted by mhcampboy:Back when I was in my secondary days, my sch invited a historian to give a talk abt national defence and yada yada in conjunction with total defence day.
He said something about, if you guys remembered, there were two ships on its way to singapore. The Prince Of Wales and Repulse. But end up being brought down by the Japanese along the straits.
What he said was, there is actually another ship which is huge. an aircraft carrier i think with the name Invicible along with POW and Repulse.
The japanese were actually trying to flee singapore when they heard about the ships coming.
But along the way, the Invicible got "stuck" between a tiny island and couldn't move.
So only two ships made it. And when the japanese heard the Invicible wasnt coming, they shot down POW and Repulse.
I search the internet for the third ship. But couldn't find it... anyone knows??
Force Z was actually sortied up to the south china sea, on the way to attack Japanese ships landing troops in Thailand but was spotted by Japanese a/c and sunk.
The a/c carrier that is suppose to accompany them is the Indomitable....which hit a reef somewhere.... -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Indomitable_%28R92%29Originally posted by spencer99:Prince of Wales and Repluse are not suckalong the way to Singapore. they both "reached" Singapore forming Force Z.
Force Z was actually sortied up to the south china sea, on the way to attack Japanese ships landing troops in Thailand but was spotted by Japanese a/c and sunk.
The a/c carrier that is suppose to accompany them is the Indomitable....which hit a reef somewhere.... -
ahhh ok Indomitable. now that rings a bell...Originally posted by spencer99:Prince of Wales and Repluse are not suckalong the way to Singapore. they both "reached" Singapore forming Force Z.
Force Z was actually sortied up to the south china sea, on the way to attack Japanese ships landing troops in Thailand but was spotted by Japanese a/c and sunk.
The a/c carrier that is suppose to accompany them is the Indomitable....which hit a reef somewhere....