Singapore-an ally or threat to Australia?
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We are part of the reason along side with India,China,Malaysia and Indonesia on why the expensive purchase of F-35 by Australia is justified. Check this out.
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/house_news/magazine/ath26_force.pdf -
I don't believe Aust sees us as a threat to their National Security.
However, I believe the reason why we were grouped together with other 'heavies' (esp India & China) and treated as a 'threat' to Aust and thus justifying a superior fighter for the RAAF boils down to simply - Aust psychic of being 'outgunned' by a fellow Asian AF (remember the similar civilian version of SIA plying the US-Aust route?)
You can argue this could be due to their past 'expired' White Aust policy or 'racism' but I'm not dwelling into that issue here.
Superior and formidable fighters represented by the Flanker-series being intro by regional AF eg Vietnam, India, China, M'sia & Indonesia (& possibly Thailand) is not just a course of concern for Aust but S'pore too esp when relations with certain countries blows hot-&-cold (read Aust vs Indonesia & S'pore vs 'you-know-who') .
I sympathise with the RAAF dilenma with the impending retirement of their 'Pig' (F-111) and the inadequate performance of the Hornet to replicate effectively the roles that the 'Pig' plays, and the continual introduction delay of the F-35. As they say here, there's a gap between the period from the Hornet until the F-35s introduction in RAAF. And the proliferation of Flankers so close to Aust shores certainly may cause some sleepless nights for RAAF planners in Canberra.
However, the report does not do itself favors when it quoted this analyst Dr Carlo Kopp's anaysis and findings. Kopp is pretty discredicted in Aust defence circles over a nasty incident but Kopp is perhaps more well-known as a strong advocate of F-22s for Aust and his phobia over the rise of Asia (vis-a-vis to Aust).
P/s. It is pretty shocking to me that Aust even quoted us in this report. Hello? Has Canberra forgotten that we are (even though not on the level that Aust is) also involved in the F-35 program? -
we were lumped in because we are part of the reigon.
Anyway, it's interesting that Aust has neither air to air nor AEW&C platforms while we do.
And also that they arent considering any planes other then the JSF!!I mean what if it is deleyed?? that will leave Aust with a huge gap in it's air defence? -
I don't see it as a big deal - it's just part of the "expect the worst" approach used in any form of military planning.
It's prudent to avoid assuming that the same government will be running any given country over an extended period of time, and so the assumption is more of a reflection of the worst-case scenario, namely that Singapore is taken over by a government that is unfriendly to Australia. -
26 x F-111
71 x F-18
About 100 aircrafts for such a huge country. Not only that, they have to cover NZ, which for economic reasons have disbanded the fighter arm of its airforce, which is now only a taxi service.
Thank goodness AUS/NZ is in a very "quiet" part of the world.
I don't know the exact numbers but Singapore must have the most combat aircrafts per square mile IN THE WORLD.
Last time I think I read somewhere that we have about 50 to 70 F-16's.
Does anyone have any idea of the number of aircrafts per type? As in how manyF-16, A-4 (retired), F-5E Tiger II, F-15 (akan datang)...? -
Singtel owns optus.
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Well that why they are call down under, so don't except them to be too well verse with their internation knowledge . Maybe it hurt their pride that a small red dot have stronger airpower then them, so die die must have more f-35.Originally posted by tankee1981:We are part of the reason along side with India,China,Malaysia and Indonesia on why the expensive purchase of F-35 by Australia is justified. Check this out.
Also let them spend their money on F-35 , i rather we get more F-15s . which is more value for money. -
From a military planning point of view, there is nothing going on South, East and West of their borders.
On the north, they have Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore. Some are close friends, some are stone cold friends. Who knows who will be the enemy or consumed by the neighbour?
The combined list of arsenal is quite impressive, so not suprising with such a conservative stand. -
The committee previously
expressed concern, in its 2004 report
AustraliaÂ’s Maritime Strategy, about
DefenceÂ’s transition strategy for
replacing the F/A-18 and F-111,
owing to the very real possibility that
there may be delays in the delivery of
more than 50 joint strike fighters.
Fundamental to any question of
regional air superiority will be a need
to examine the projected air-combat
and strike capability of AustraliaÂ’s
nearest neighbours—Indonesia,
Singapore and Malaysia—alongside
the regional superpowers of China
and India.
fr the link in opening thread
2.This is the only reference to Sg.The funny thing is their
inventory of Sg are 50 units of F16 and
50 units of A4SU Skyhawk!!!.The paper is dated March 2006.
Aussie experts dunt know Skyhawk of Sg already retired in Mar 2005?
3.u can read their mind set.Sg is on their radar.
So this is the reason we need strong SAF.Even partner of 5 power
put sg on their radar.How about those not so friendly one?? -
You'd think we do not put the US on our radar? Everyone knows there are allies and interests. Who knows, if one day our government becomes one that is rogue, our Free Forces might need external intervention to reclaim the state right?
The RAAF chappies have admitted that they are not at our level of force projection, but they are glad they are on our side. This is from frank discussion with them.
I'm willing to call Australia an ally, and most sane Australians will call us the same.
Contingency plans are on every nation's card. Did you know that the USAF had contingency plans for any Canadian incursion?
Anyway, the RSAF, RAAF and USAF were supposed to be in talks over asset sharing of Global Hawks. -
And yet Singtel staff get thrown out of the room whenever Optus says sensitive comms are coming through.Originally posted by ditzy:Singtel owns optus. -
26 x F-111
They were supposed to retire the F-111s soon as far as I can recall which is why they`re buying cruise misslies for thier Orions.
71 x F-18
About 100 aircrafts for such a huge country. Not only that, they have to cover NZ, which for economic reasons have disbanded the fighter arm of its airforce, which is now only a taxi service.
Thank goodness AUS/NZ is in a very "quiet" part of the world.
I don't know the exact numbers but Singapore must have the most combat aircrafts per square mile IN THE WORLD.
Last time I think I read somewhere that we have about 50 to 70 F-16's.
Does anyone have any idea of the number of aircrafts per type? As in how manyF-16, A-4 (retired), F-5E Tiger II, F-15 (akan datang)...?
The RSAF was arguably operating the largest air-force in SEA prior to the retirement of the Sky-hawks and sale of F-16 A/Bs to Thailand. And possibly as many as 70 F-16s, 60 super Sky-hawks and 49-50 F-5E. Some analysts and reporters in some magazines assert that we have more F-16s though we will never know the actual figure.
We would need to augment the the retirement of the Sky-hawks with new NGFs though; which is why analysts are expecting a series of purchases similar to the F-16s. The upper limit for the NGFs is 60-80 aircrafts. It is highly unlikely that the latter figure has changed. The type of aircraft might change though i doubt it. Just wait and see. -
Err...i assume you do know that RSAF is also interested in getting the F-35 because we have already join the programme but at a lower level as compared to the Australians. In fact we are the only Asian country in the JSF programme!Originally posted by storywolf:Well that why they are call down under, so don't except them to be too well verse with their internation knowledge . Maybe it hurt their pride that a small red dot have stronger airpower then them, so die die must have more f-35.
Also let them spend their money on F-35 , i rather we get more F-15s . which is more value for money.
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
Ok time to take out the maps and the calculator.
fr the link in opening thread
2.This is the only reference to Sg.The funny thing is their
inventory of Sg are 50 units of F16 and
50 units of A4SU Skyhawk!!!.The paper is dated March 2006.
Aussie experts dunt know Skyhawk of Sg already retired in Mar 2005?
3.u can read their mind set.Sg is on their radar.
So this is the reason we need strong SAF.Even partner of 5 power
put sg on their radar.How about those not so friendly one??[/b]
Can we project our forces to Australia from Singapore? Lets leave out the Trojan horse scenario, eg troops at Shoalwater bay exercises doing a pincer movement etc. Just direct from SG. -
We should spank a few more of their citizens, and see what they still think of singapore.Originally posted by LazerLordz:I'm willing to call Australia an ally, and most sane Australians will call us the same. -
Most of them will say, " Carry on and whip those buggers" .Originally posted by ditzy:We should spank a few more of their citizens, and see what they still think of singapore. 
And regarding the JSF SCO participation, isn't Japan in it too? -
Actually the article just mentions Singapore once?
I guess we are lumped in so that it doesn't come across as biasness against certain countries.
Besides, with mid-air refueling, we could theoratically hit Australia with our F5s, F16s and upcoming F15s. And we are the biggest air power closest to them outside China and India.
At the rate that the US is being a pain with tech transfer, I'm still waiting to see if the F35 ever get exported. -
Last month an RAAF F-111 was belly landed with minor damage on Amberley Base because a main wheel fell off when the pilot moved to extend the undercarriage in preparation to land.
RAAF are the last military operators of the type - even the USAF has retired their Wild Weasal G-models after the first Gulf War.
The type is nearing 40 years since its initial (problem fraught) introduction into service. Its just that it seems there isn't a Western aircraft that can capably replace the F-111 for the RAAF's use, except perhaps the Strike Eagle.
Perhaps they should start looking elsewhere to meet their needs for a long ranged, fast bomber with a decent payload. -
Precisely, the article is more about the technical challenges facing the RAAF, not a political discussion.Originally posted by insouciant:Actually the article just mentions Singapore once?
I guess we are lumped in so that it doesn't come across as biasness against certain countries.
Besides, with mid-air refueling, we could theoratically hit Australia with our F5s, F16s and upcoming F15s. And we are the biggest air power closest to them outside China and India.
At the rate that the US is being a pain with tech transfer, I'm still waiting to see if the F35 ever get exported.
Plane to plane, we outnumber and outrange them. It's common sense for them to put us there. -
Yeesh... If a wheel could drop off... It either means that the maintainence people screwed up.. Or more than likely high time the aircraft got replaced.Originally posted by cleong:Last month an RAAF F-111 was belly landed with minor damage on Amberley Base because a main wheel fell off when the pilot moved to extend the undercarriage in preparation to land.
RAAF are the last military operators of the type - even the USAF has retired their Wild Weasal G-models after the first Gulf War.
The type is nearing 40 years since its initial (problem fraught) introduction into service. Its just that it seems there isn't a Western aircraft that can capably replace the F-111 for the RAAF's use, except perhaps the Strike Eagle.
Perhaps they should start looking elsewhere to meet their needs for a long ranged, fast bomber with a decent payload.
It might have made more sense for them to invest in a version of the F15E. Instead of pinning all their hopes on the F35. But then, the Australian government has never been too big on spending too much on defense if they could help it. -
Hey guys, this was simply a magazine arcticle(free speach is such an alien concept to you ),now I know you people like to beat your chests and just the thought of Singapore being included(to make up numbers) in this list gets your hearts pumping and comments like :
with our tankers we could bomb Aus,they are glad they are on our side(give me a break!) etc. etc .
Heres a reality check for you........ Singapore is hardly a threat to anyone, certainly not Australia.
Just a quick question, you might be able to settle an arguement I am having,
how many F16's could the RSAF put into the air over Singapore at short notice ?
Cheers. -
Originally posted by digger:
Disregarding the 40 F-5S for the moment, with 60+ F-16C/D Blk 52+ in which some say close to the IAF Soufa variant. They are also armed with to of the line weapons used by the US and Israel. They can also be refueled with our tankers. and supported by E-2C to say that RSAF don't present the slightest of threat to anyone is certainly hard to comprehend. This is of course, disregarding that 20 new F-15SG, most advance variant of F-15, are to be delievered in the next few years.
Hey guys, this was simply a magazine arcticle(free speach is such an alien concept to you ),now I know you people like to beat your chests and just the thought of Singapore being included(to make up numbers) in this list gets your hearts pumping and comments like :
with our tankers we could bomb Aus,they are glad they are on our side(give me a break!) etc. etc .
Heres a reality check for you........ Singapore is hardly a threat to anyone, certainly not Australia.
Just a quick question, you might be able to settle an arguement I am having,
how many F16's could the RSAF put into the air over Singapore at short notice ?
Cheers.
I don't think the Australian government (its from Australian parliament house website,please check the address) will include RSAF in this article for no good reason. We are talking about government officials from a developed pacific military power here, i am sure they won't make mistakes of such nature. -
Just one person made a comment about bombing Australia. No one else thinks that way.Originally posted by digger:Hey guys, this was simply a magazine arcticle(free speach is such an alien concept to you ),now I know you people like to beat your chests and just the thought of Singapore being included(to make up numbers) in this list gets your hearts pumping and comments like :
with our tankers we could bomb Aus,they are glad they are on our side(give me a break!) etc. etc .
Heres a reality check for you........ Singapore is hardly a threat to anyone, certainly not Australia.
Just a quick question, you might be able to settle an arguement I am having,
how many F16's could the RSAF put into the air over Singapore at short notice ?
Cheers.
So be a good girl and stop trying to pick a fight. -
"I don't think the Australian government (its from Australian parliament house website,please check the address) will include RSAF in this article for no good reason. We are talking about government officials from a developed pacific military power here, i am sure they won't make mistakes of such nature."
Karlo Copp representing the government!I don't think so, Copp is a crackpot he has made endless submissions to anyone that will listen and carries little weight with the Gov. or ADF or anyone with a defence background.
"Disregarding the 40 F-5S for the moment, with 60+ F-16C/D Blk 52+ in which some say close to the IAF Soufa variant. They are also armed with to of the line weapons used by the US and Israel. They can also be refueled with our tankers. and supported by E-2C to say that RSAF don't present the slightest of threat to anyone is certainly hard to comprehend. This is of course, disregarding that 20 new F-15SG, most advance variant of F-15, are to be delievered in the next few years."
Yeah yeah I get that (20 F-15's ?) my point is that any aggression shown by Singapore to any modern military power would be catastrophic for Singaporean population/infrastructure etc.and all those F-16's have to land and re-arm somewhere(and pls no stories about freeways etc.).
The question about how many F-16's was a serious one, we have come up with a figure of around 30?
Just one person made a comment about bombing Australia. No one else thinks that way.
So be a good girl and stop trying to pick a fight.
I didn't mention all the other remarks(have a read thru) because I didn't want it to get ugly.
Singapore is regarded as a good ally,we even share some of our high end tech with you.
Anyhoo don't drop in here often but enjoy it when I do. -
they are just trying to present a case for the RAAF need to purchase F-35. so it would help if they can present a credible reason to pay for it.Originally posted by tankee1981:Disregarding the 40 F-5S for the moment, with 60+ F-16C/D Blk 52+ in which some say close to the IAF Soufa variant. They are also armed with to of the line weapons used by the US and Israel. They can also be refueled with our tankers. and supported by E-2C to say that RSAF don't present the slightest of threat to anyone is certainly hard to comprehend. This is of course, disregarding that 20 new F-15SG, most advance variant of F-15, are to be delievered in the next few years.
I don't think the Australian government (its from Australian parliament house website,please check the address) will include RSAF in this article for no good reason. We are talking about government officials from a developed pacific military power here, i am sure they won't make mistakes of such nature.
so... dont mind if they intentionally forgot that our A-4s are retired nor the fact that we are also part of the F-35 project..
the important thing is that the aussie politicians bites the carrot and pay for their RAAF F-35.
in the case of singapore... i think they are probably not listing us as a threat... but to show their govt... that there is this tiny country that has an airforce comparable to the RAAF... so it would not look good if australia air force is anywhere to far from RSAF.
so... not only are there threats to aussies... but there is the pride factor as well.. for getting the F-35 for the RAAF.
as for bombing australia.. that is stupid as hell... try taking a flight from singapore to shore waterbay... even on a SIA 747, the trip is tedious... imagine our pilots flying that distance every sortie.. i think our pilot would die of fatigue first before we even make a dent in australia's vast territory.