Israel Launches Air Strikes on Beirut.
-
Hhmm....perhaps we should just arm both sides with nukes and play "fastest fingers first"???Originally posted by the Bear:the hezbollah didn't kidnap civilians...
yes.. but where did they kidnap (and the primary word here is KIDNAP) the soldiers?
i don't see the people condemning the kidnapper, but i do see the people condemning the ones trying to get the kidnapped freed...
inappropriate force?
so, please tell me what is appropriate when sovereign countries threaten to "wipe Israel off the face of the earth" and send suicide bombers to bomb CIVILIANS on buses and markets?
screw this all.. why don't the asswipes get all the arab jihadist leaders, all the "zionist leaders" and then throw them into a steel cage and let them settle it, instead of getting the civilians involved?
-
again the stink rats are trying to play pank with the mighty lion....sigh...
are they moron or simply stupid?
Their god never teach them what is peace meh? -
Guys, lets leave religion out of this.
-
oops ya forgot...
ok talk muscle only -
List of units from the IDF that had taken part in the BEY bombings.
1) F-16C Block 30 from 117 (and possibly 110) squadrons. No solid info on type of munition but it would have to be iron bombs, JDAM (yes the IDF has JDAMs), or the SPICE (Israeli GPS and IR-Video guided bomb, Mk.84 warhead)
2) F-16D Block 30 from 109 squadron. In addition to the munitions specified above they are also known to use LGBs.
3) F-16D Block 40 from 105 squadron. Same variety of munitions as 109.
4) F-15I from 69 Sqn. All of the above types of bombs are available, plus the Popeye (AGM-142 in the States) standoff air to ground missile, as well as, possibly, the GBU-15 (TV guided bomb, Mk.84 warhead).
5) AH-1E/F Cobra helicopters. TOW missiles is the preferred weapon of choice, 20mm Gatling gun used for soft targets of opportunity. Rockets rarely used by IDF/AF. These are said to have been used against the Hezbollah TV station among other targets. Reasonable to assume they are flying a lot of sorties trying to destory the rocket launchers the Hezbollah has been using to shell Israel's north.
6) AH-64A/D Apache, 113 and 190 squadrons. Various versions (A and K come to mind) of the AGM-114 Hellfire missile. Apaches are credited with the attack on the BEY fuel storage tanks apparently. BEY fuel tanks were the work of the apaches.
7) F-16C B30 from 117 confirmed.
F-16C B40s from 101 Sqn confirmed as well.
9) F16! Sufas have also taken part. -
Nezbollah used a drone to attack the Israeli warship that was carrying out a blockade.
ZQUvioA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">News article
So they are not as far behind in technology huh? Wonder where they got it from.. hmmmmm.... -
watever they do, jus dun bring their war to our soil!
-
Originally posted by the Bear:
I think that is the crux of the problem that goes back to before WW1. At the time the Ottoman Turks controlled the area and the Middle-East was a whole lot quieter than it is today. There were Jews and Arabs living together but neither owned the land, which was controlled by the Turks.
the hezbollah didn't kidnap civilians...
yes.. but [b]where did they kidnap (and the primary word here is KIDNAP) the soldiers?
[/b]
There was a movement initiated by the Jews in Europe to establish a Jewish homeland in Ottoman-controlled Palestine but obviously that was not possible then. Instead, British Prime Minister Palmerston wrote to the Ottoman Sultan urging him to welcome Jews to return and settle in Palestine, arguing that adding their wealth to the sultan's dominion will be in his interest. There was no talk then of taking Turkish territory to create a Jewish nation.
Unfortunately, the Turks sided with the wrong side and lost WW1. At the Treaty of Versailles, the British were given the mandate over all of Palestine, which included present-day Israel, Jordan and the Palestinian State. The British unilaterally decided to back the establishment of a Jewish state in the mandated lands, as contained in the Balfour Declaration. This was done without consultation of the local Arabs.
Over the years before WW2, the British allowed Jewish immigration to Palestine but it was limited because of increasing local Arab opposition. In fact, the British forbade Jews escaping the Holocaust from immigration into Palestine.Terrorist groups sprouted on both sides. There was an Arab revolt led by the Grand Mufti who felt the Arabs were marginalized in their own home. On the other hand, there were Jewish terrorist organizations who ran illegal immigration rackets and one Jewish terrorist group even assassinated the British minister Lord Moyne in 1944.
During WW2, the Arabs were divided between those who supported the Allied and Axis forces, although the Nazis courted the Arabs against the Jews. Following the assassination of Lord Moyne, Churchill dissociated himself from the Zionist cause and despite American pressure, the British refused to allow survivors of the concentration camps to emigrate to Palestine. In response, the Jewish terrorist group Irgun blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem where the British administration was based. Sensing the situation getting out of hand, the British wanted out of Palestine by 1948, thus pacing the way for the formation of Israel.
In view of the British determination to return the Mandate by 1948, the United Nations decided to create a Jewish and an Arab state with Jerusalem under international jurisdiction. Most of the Jews accepted the partition plan but it was rejected immediately by the Arabs. Some Jews rejected it as well, chief among which was Menachem Begin (later Prime Minister of Israel), who was chief of Irgun, once a Jewish terrorist organization. He insisted that Jerusalem should remain Jewish.
In 1945, most of the private land was owned by Arabs who formed two-thirds of the population and Jews controlled about 20% of cultivable land. The bulk of the land, however, belonged to the government and with the formation of Israel, fell into Jewish hands. Local Arabs obviously resent the loss of their land and have never accepted the right of the British or the UN to carve a jewish nation from Palestine, which they regard as their home.
So where did the capture or kidnapping occur? Some Arabs might say that the creation of Israel unilaterally against the wishes of the Arab inhabitants was not justifiable in the first place and they do not recognize the legitimate existence of the jewish state. As such, they might contend that it took place in disputed Palestinian land. They might well consider all of Israel as disputed land.
To some Arabs, the only reason the UN was able to bring Israel into existence was because the Ottoman Turks lost WW1, which set off the entire series of events. If it is the right of conquest that gave Britain and then the UN the power to partition the land, some might feel that violence would be necessary again to gain it back. Since they are militarily too weak to win a conventional warfare, some obviously feel that terrorist action such as suicide bombings might be a legitimate weapon.
I do not at all condone the actions of either Jewish or Arab terrorist organizations, but a consideration of the history will reveal that both sides have resorted to such means. The Middle-east problem is by no means black and white. Whilst condemning Palestinian suicide bombers, we have to remember that their grouses are also not without cause. -
Well it's probably, a "you gimme shit i give you twice the shit" situation israel is practicing?Originally posted by MobyDog:Israel is acting like the US....
BTW.. WTF are the Israelis targeting civilian structure and residential areas anyway.. I heard they just bombed a house and killed 6 family members.. Collateral damage ??? when Israel military targets are hit - Terrorist act ??
You know when I read the News in the APs.. It give me the impression that the Israelis action are pre-planned. You see why would The Lebanese cross over Israel to kidnap them when their whole division are at the border and ready to search lebanon ??
It will be no surprise later when the whole thing simmer down and we learnt that that those two Israelis sldiers are infact in Lebanon...
I have a feeling the Israel wants Syria and Iran to give support and that gives the Israelis reason to act against them... this is nothing new -- when it comes to US and Israel foreign affairs. They control much of the news we read. -
using terrorism against terrorism...
-
You've elucidated the roots of the issues pretty well. It's just that some people on both sides believe, misguidedly, that two wrongs make a right.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:I think that is the crux of the problem that goes back to before WW1. At the time the Ottoman Turks controlled the area and the Middle-East was a whole lot quieter than it is today. There were Jews and Arabs living together but neither owned the land, which was controlled by the Turks.
There was a movement initiated by the Jews in Europe to establish a Jewish homeland in Ottoman-controlled Palestine but obviously that was not possible then. Instead, British Prime Minister Palmerston wrote to the Ottoman Sultan urging him to welcome Jews to return and settle in Palestine, arguing that adding their wealth to the sultan's dominion will be in his interest. There was no talk then of taking Turkish territory to create a Jewish nation.
Unfortunately, the Turks sided with the wrong side and lost WW1. At the Treaty of Versailles, the British were given the mandate over all of Palestine, which included present-day Israel, Jordan and the Palestinian State. The British unilaterally decided to back the establishment of a Jewish state in the mandated lands, as contained in the Balfour Declaration. This was done without consultation of the local Arabs.
Over the years before WW2, the British allowed Jewish immigration to Palestine but it was limited because of increasing local Arab opposition. In fact, the British forbade Jews escaping the Holocaust from immigration into Palestine.Terrorist groups sprouted on both sides. There was an Arab revolt led by the Grand Mufti who felt the Arabs were marginalized in their own home. On the other hand, there were Jewish terrorist organizations who ran illegal immigration rackets and one Jewish terrorist group even assassinated the British minister Lord Moyne in 1944.
During WW2, the Arabs were divided between those who supported the Allied and Axis forces, although the Nazis courted the Arabs against the Jews. Following the assassination of Lord Moyne, Churchill dissociated himself from the Zionist cause and despite American pressure, the British refused to allow survivors of the concentration camps to emigrate to Palestine. In response, the Jewish terrorist group Irgun blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem where the British administration was based. Sensing the situation getting out of hand, the British wanted out of Palestine by 1948, thus pacing the way for the formation of Israel.
In view of the British determination to return the Mandate by 1948, the United Nations decided to create a Jewish and an Arab state with Jerusalem under international jurisdiction. Most of the Jews accepted the partition plan but it was rejected immediately by the Arabs. Some Jews rejected it as well, chief among which was Menachem Begin (later Prime Minister of Israel), who was chief of Irgun, once a Jewish terrorist organization. He insisted that Jerusalem should remain Jewish.
In 1945, most of the private land was owned by Arabs who formed two-thirds of the population and Jews controlled about 20% of cultivable land. The bulk of the land, however, belonged to the government and with the formation of Israel, fell into Jewish hands. Local Arabs obviously resent the loss of their land and have never accepted the right of the British or the UN to carve a jewish nation from Palestine, which they regard as their home.
So where did the capture or kidnapping occur? Some Arabs might say that the creation of Israel unilaterally against the wishes of the Arab inhabitants was not justifiable in the first place and they do not recognize the legitimate existence of the jewish state. As such, they might contend that it took place in disputed Palestinian land. They might well consider all of Israel as disputed land.
To some Arabs, the only reason the UN was able to bring Israel into existence was because the Ottoman Turks lost WW1, which set off the entire series of events. If it is the right of conquest that gave Britain and then the UN the power to partition the land, some might feel that violence would be necessary again to gain it back. Since they are militarily too weak to win a conventional warfare, some obviously feel that terrorist action such as suicide bombings might be a legitimate weapon.
I do not at all condone the actions of either Jewish or Arab terrorist organizations, but a consideration of the history will reveal that both sides have resorted to such means. The Middle-east problem is by no means black and white. Whilst condemning Palestinian suicide bombers, we have to remember that their grouses are also not without cause. -
petrol price rise up 6 cents
damn jews -
Pics not shown or IP blocked from news sites.
-
This time i hope the entire region is engulfed in war.. and they wipe each other out and we can march in and take thier sweeeet sweeeeet oil..~~ SLURP!
-
Guys watch this video.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696&q=Peace%2C+Propaganda+%26+the+Promised+Land
what you say now could have been guided by 'THEM'.
Its a tv programme so its an hour long. Definitely make your eyes open. -
sg should learn fr this lesson --never use more than minmum force.
any excessive force will create more hates.
2.
Thursday July 27, 07:25 AM,Israel using chemical weapons: doctorsThe Israeli army said it had used only conventional weapons and ammunition in attacks aimed at Hizbollah guerrillas and nothing contravening international law.
3.In March 2003, DSO was designated by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) as one of its verification laboratories worldwide. The designation places DSO in the same league as elite laboratories from countries such as the United States, United Kingdom, France and Finland, to support the verification work of the Chemical Weapons Convention. Recently, DSO was selected to be the spiking laboratory for the 14th Official OPCW Proficiency Test.
Blackened bodies have been showing up at hospitals in southern Lebanon two weeks into the war between Israel and Hizbollah guerrillas that has seen at least 418 people, mostly civilians, killed in Lebanon and at least 42 Israelis.
Killed by Israeli air raids, the Lebanese dead are charred in a way local doctors, who have lived through years of civil war and Israeli occupation, say they have not seen before.
Bachir Cham, a Belgian-Lebanese doctor at the Southern Medical Centre in Sidon, received eight bodies after an Israeli air raid on nearby Rmeili which he said exhibited such wounds.
He has taken 24 samples from the bodies to test what killed them. He believes it is a chemical.
4.so ,Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW)may ask Sg to test the samples.
Determined for the sake of all mankind, to exclude completely the possibility of the use of chemical weapons -
Originally posted by Pitot:
For your info Hezbollah has been farking around with the Israeli since 1982.
For goodness sake, it was an operation by hezbollah to kidnap the soldiers. Not some impromtu thingy. [b]Operation True Promise was conducted by hezbollah to kidnap 2 israeli soldiers in israel for the freedom of the captured prisoners.
Now Israel hits back with Operation Just Rewards.
Tells you one thing again.
"simply, dont Fark around with Israel."[/b] -
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
i disagreed.
sg should learn fr this lesson --never use more than minmum force.
any excessive force will create more hates.
2.
[b]Thursday July 27, 07:25 AM,Israel using chemical weapons: doctors
3.In March 2003, DSO was designated by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) as one of its verification laboratories worldwide. The designation places DSO in the same league as elite laboratories from countries such as the United States, United Kingdom, France and Finland, to support the verification work of the Chemical Weapons Convention. Recently, DSO was selected to be the spiking laboratory for the 14th Official OPCW Proficiency Test.
4.so ,Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW)may ask Sg to test the samples.
Determined for the sake of all mankind, to exclude completely the possibility of the use of chemical weapons[/b]
i believe that mankind are hopelessly retarded... therefore.. the enemy will never appreciate your kindness in using the minimal force.
i believe that either we dont do it... or do it with everything we have... with the aim of breaking the enemies will, body and mind.
if they dont give up... we will just have to bury them.. or risk an endless war. -
Here is a bit different view on the bombings from what you normally read in the news. i leave it up to the reader to judge its accuracy
For the full lengt article go to http://www.menapress.com/article.php?sid=1479
By Michael Béhé in Beirut
Translated from the French by Llewellyn Brown
The politicians, journalists and intellectuals of Lebanon have, of late, been experiencing the shock of their lives. They knew full well that Hezbollah had created an independent state in our country, a state including all the ministers and parallel institutions, duplicating those of Lebanon. What they did not know – and are discovering with this war, and what has petrified them with surprise and terror – is the extent of this phagocytosis.
In fact, our country had become an extension of Iran, and our so-called political power also served as a political and military cover for the Islamists of Teheran. We suddenly discovered that Teheran had stocked more than 12,000 missiles, of all types and calibers, on our territory and that they had patiently, systematically, organized a suppletive force, with the help of the Syrians, that took over, day after day, all the rooms in the House of Lebanon. Just imagine it : we stock ground-to-ground missiles, Zilzals, on our territory and that the firing of such devices without our knowledge, has the power to spark a regional strategic conflict and, potentially, bring about the annihilation of Lebanon.
We knew that Iran, by means of Hezbollah, was building a veritable Maginot line in the south but it was the pictures of Maroun el-Ras and Bint JÂ’bail that revealed to us the magnitude of these constructions. This amplitude made us understand several things at once : that we were no longer masters of our destiny. That we do not possess the most basic means necessary to reverse the course of this state of things and that those who turned our country into an outpost of their islamic doctrineÂ’s combat against Israel did not have the slightest intention of willingly giving up their hold over us.
Of course, our army, reshaped over the years by the Syrian occupier so it could no longer fulfill its role as protector of the nation, did not have the capacity to tackle the militamen of the Hezb [hezb-Allah : the party of Allah. Translator’s note]. Our army whom it is more dangerous to call upon – because of the explosive equilibrium that constitutes each of its brigades – than to shut up behind locked doors in its barracks. A force that is still largely loyal to its former foreign masters, to the point of being uncontrollable ; to the point of having collaborated with the Iranians to put OUR coastal radar stations at the disposal of their missiles, that almost sunk an Israeli boat off the shores of Beirut. As for the non-Hezbollah elements in the government, they knew nothing of the existence of land-to-sea missiles on our territory… That caused the totally justified destruction of all OUR radar stations by the Hebrews’ army. And even then we are getting off lightly in these goings-on.
It is easy now to whine and gripe, and to play the hypocritical role of victims. We know full well how to get others to pity us and to claim that we are never responsible for the horrors that regularly occur on our soil. Of course, that is nothing but rubbish! The Security Council’s Resolution 1559 – that demanded that OUR government deploy OUR army on OUR sovereign territory, along OUR international border with Israel and that it disarm all the militia on OUR land – was voted on 2 September 2004.
http://www.menapress.com/article.php?sid=1479
As for the destruction caused by the Israelis… that is another imposture : look at the satellite map! I have situated, as best I could, BUT IN THEIR CORRECT PROPORTIONS, the parts of my capital that have been destroyed by Israel. They are Haret Hreik – in its totality – and the dwellings of Hezbollah’s leaders, situated in the large Shi’a suburb of Dayaa (as they spell it) and that I have circled in blue.
In addition to these two zones, Tsahal has exploded a nine-storied building that housed Hezbollah’s command, in Beirut’s city center, above and slightly to the left (to the north west) of Haret Hreik on the map. It was Nasrallah’s “perch” inside the city, whereby he asserted his presence and domination over us. A depot of Syrian arms in the port, two army radars that the Shiite officers had put at the Hezb’s disposal, and a truck suspected of transporting arms, in the Christian quarter of Ashrafieh.
Moreover the road and airport infrastructures were put out of working order : they served to provide Hezbollah with arms and munitions. Apart from that, Tsahal has neither hit nor deteriorated anything, and all those who speak of the “destruction of Beirut” are either liars, Iranians, anti-Semites or absent. Even the houses situated one alley’s distance from the targets I mentioned have not been hit, they have not even suffered a scratch; on contemplating these results of this work you understand the meaning of the concept “surgical strikes” and you can admire the dexterity of the Jewish pilots.
Beirut, all the rest of Beirut, 95% of Beirut, lives and breathes better than a fortnight ago. All those who have not sided with terrorism know they have strictly nothing to fear from the Israeli planes, on the contrary! One example: last night the restaurant where I went to eat was jammed full and I had to wait until 9:30 pm to get a table. Everyone was smiling, relaxed, but no one filmed them: a strange destruction of Beirut, is it not? -
Any suggestions or comments on how terrorism should be tackled? Assuming we are the Israelis & we've been attacked by shadow forces from across the borders, what should we do?
I believe war should be waged on 2 fronts, ie physical & psychological. If the enemy gets the upper hand by winning the propaganda war, no matter how badly we kick their butts, chances are that we will lose in the long run, regardless of whether we're right or wrong -
US KNEW OF ISRAEL's BOMBING PLAN
This is the article by the BBC News.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4792961.stm
Allow me to quote from a few section of the article.Meanwhile, an Israeli embassy spokesman said Israel "did not plan the campaign" to attack Hezbollah, adding: "The decision was forced on us."
That is what is coming from the Israeli embassy spokesman. An official source... but of course, still can question its reliability lar.
Naturally, much of Mr Hersh's sources are "unofficial" and anonymous. Some claiming to be former Intelligence officers, US govt consultants etc.
Still waiting for an official denial by the US govt. -
Yeh! To hell with the Hizbollah, I say!
Lebanon only has themselves to blame. If they cannot exist responsibly when they keep wanting to cho-cho Israel, , then they don't deserve sovereignty over their own country. Destroy all the terrorist scum from the face of the Earth....
-
Excerpts from article...
Bush 'viewed war in Lebanon as a curtain-raiser for attack on Iran'The Bush administration was informed in advance and gave the "green light" to Israel's military strikes against Hizbollah  with plans drawn up months before two Israeli soldiers were seized Âit has been claimed.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article1219021.ece
The US reportedly considered Israel's actions as a necessary prerequisite for a possible strike against Iran. A report by a leading investigative reporter says that earlier this summer Israeli officials visited Washington to brief the government on its plan to respond to any Hizbollah provocation and to "find out how much the US would bear".
The officials apparently started their inquiries with Vice-President Dick Cheney, knowing that if they secured his support, obtaining the backing of President Bush and Condoleezza Rice would be easier.
The report by Seymour Hersh quotes an unidentified US government consultant with close ties to the Israelis who says: "The Israelis told us it would be a cheap war with many benefits. Why oppose it? We'll be able to hunt down and bomb missiles, tunnels, and bunkers from the air. It would be a demo for Iran."
A former intelligence officer, also quoted, says: "We told Israel,'Look, if you guys have to go, we're behind you all the way. But we think it should be sooner rather than later. The longer you wait, the less time we have to evaluate and plan for Iran before Bush gets out of office'."
Both Israeli and US officials say that the Israeli military operation against Hizbollah was triggered by the seizing of two Israeli soldiers, apparently to be bargained with for a possible prisoner swap. But Hersh's report, published in today's issue of The New Yorker, adds to evidence that Israel had been anticipating a Hizbollah provocation for some time and planning its response  a response that was widely condemned for being disproportionate.
Last month the San Francisco Chronicle reported that "Israel's military response by air, land and sea to what it considered a provocation last week by Hizbollah militants was unfolding according to a plan finalised more than a year ago". The report said that a senior Israeli army officer had been briefing diplomats, journalists and think-tanks for more than a year about the plan and it quoted Gerald Steinberg, professor of political science at [Israel's] Bar-Ilan University, who said: "Of all of Israel's wars since 1948, this was the one for which Israel was most prepared." Last week the New Statesman magazine reported that Britain had also been informed in advance of the military preparations and that the Prime Minister had chosen not to try to stop them "because he did not want to".
The expert added: "If there was to be a military option against Iran's nuclear facilities, it had to get rid of the weapons that Hizbollah could use in a potential retaliation at Israel. Bush was going after Iran, as part of the 'axis of evil', and its nuclear sites, and he was interested in going after Hizbollah as part of his interest in democratisation."
Last night the White House denied the allegations contained in Hersh's piece with a brief statement from the President describing it as "patently untrue". Mr Bush's national security adviser, Stephen Hadley, added: " The suggestion that the US and Israel planned and co-ordinated an attack on Hizbollah  and did so as a prelude to an attack on Iran  is just flat wrong." -
Related Article...
Bush 'helped Israeli attack on Lebanon'The US government was closely involved in planning the Israeli campaign in Lebanon, even before Hizbullah seized two Israeli soldiers in a cross border raids in July. American and Israeli officials met in the spring, discussing plans on how to tackle Hizbullah, according to a report published yesterday.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1844021,00.html
The veteran investigative journalist Seymour Hersh writes in the current issue of the New Yorker magazine that Israeli government officials travelled to the US in May to share plans for attacking Hizbullah.
Quoting a US government consultant, Hersh said: "Earlier this summer ... several Israeli officials visited Washington, separately, 'to get a green light for the bombing operation and to find out how much the United States would bear'."
The Israeli action, current and former government officials told Hersh, chimed with the Bush administration's desire to reduce the threat of possible Hizbullah retaliation against Israel should the US launch a military strike against Iran.
"A successful Israeli Air Force bombing campaign ... could ease Israel's security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential American pre-emptive attack to destroy Iran's nuclear installations," sources told Hersh.
Yesterday Mr Hersh told CNN: "July was a pretext for a major offensive that had been in the works for a long time. Israel's attack was going to be a model for the attack they really want to do. They really want to go after Iran."
An unnamed Pentagon consultant told Hersh: "It was our intention to have Hizbullah diminished and now we have someone else doing it."
Officials from the state department and the Pentagon denied the report. A spokesman for the National Security Council told Hersh that "The Israeli government gave no official in Washington any reason to believe that Israel was planning to attack."
Hersh has a track record in breaking major stories. He was the first to write about the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and has written extensively about the build-up to the war in Iraq. He made his name when he uncovered the massacre at My Lai during the Vietnam war. Most recently he has written about US plans for Iran, alleging that US special forces had already been active inside the country.