most urgently needed weapons......
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Well,no matter how heavy or troublesome it is to wear body armour, once the 1st round flies over their heads, everyone would scramble for one and it would prove its weight in gold. Anyway, there's an article I read in a foreign defence magazine that studies are being done and it has been proven that given a choice, troops and law enforcement agents would immediately choose body armour and after that a weapon to fight back.Guess it shows the mentality of humans about our own self-preservation.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Simple, just imagine an extra 8KG and more hokkien vulgarities as people run, jump, and climb about the buildings. -
Sure when the rounds start flying, I'll be the first to ask for body armour. Bt it would still be a pain to jump through the FIBUA window or clear a low wall with it on tho...Originally posted by SpecOps87:Well,no matter how heavy or troublesome it is to wear body armour, once the 1st round flies over their heads, everyone would scramble for one and it would prove its weight in gold. Anyway, there's an article I read in a foreign defence magazine that studies are being done and it has been proven that given a choice, troops and law enforcement agents would immediately choose body armour and after that a weapon to fight back.Guess it shows the mentality of humans about our own self-preservation.
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As the world become increasingly urbanised, our future possible battlefield is most likely to be in an urban environment as compared to the traditional jungle. In an urban setting, enemy fire can come from all directions, the enemy may even hide in the sewers and pop up for an ambush after you have walk past then quickly disappear underground! This is certainly impossible when fighting in the jungle.
The chances of being hit by enemy fire at relatively close ranges is much higher as compared to fighting in the jungle. Thus body armour becomes increasingly important to the modern soldier engaging in MOUT or FIBUA.
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most needed to replace...
hmm
combat medic equipment...the MOP is pretty vietnam warrish and outdated...
hmm...a seemingly better SBO....LBV may be cool...but i find SBO being a better choice...the fact that u dont get heat rash at weird areas..lbvs are onli good for fibua oni..nothing beats the SBO for versatility.....bigger pouches to improve the current one would be good enuff...maybe drop leg pouches for commander equipment and stuff like that...u dun really need a green doraemon suit(LBV) to fight...i stress the two words, mission essential..
better night vision goggles....current one....gets u dizzy after a while cos its of a scope-like design..
ripstop uniforms...
better boots i suppose..not that i dun like goretex or the standard issue stuff...but there are better options out there
weapons..kinda unimportant imo...maybe here and there but not a total revamp...it all boils down to the soldier's ability himself..money better spent on a soldier's personal equipment and better training... -
You got no choice but to adapt to the LBV. As for NVG, are u referring to the GEN2? Don't worry, our Army got lots of good stuff for us.Originally posted by Rockhound:most needed to replace...
hmm
combat medic equipment...the MOP is pretty vietnam warrish and outdated...
hmm...a seemingly better SBO....LBV may be cool...but i find SBO being a better choice...the fact that u dont get heat rash at weird areas..lbvs are onli good for fibua oni..nothing beats the SBO for versatility.....bigger pouches to improve the current one would be good enuff...maybe drop leg pouches for commander equipment and stuff like that...u dun really need a green doraemon suit(LBV) to fight...i stress the two words, mission essential..
better night vision goggles....current one....gets u dizzy after a while cos its of a scope-like design..
ripstop uniforms...
better boots i suppose..not that i dun like goretex or the standard issue stuff...but there are better options out there
weapons..kinda unimportant imo...maybe here and there but not a total revamp...it all boils down to the soldier's ability himself..money better spent on a soldier's personal equipment and better training...
Agree on the ripstop uniforms. As for boots, what, you want altama is it? Or bates? You can always go buy ur own for your own comfort. But i have to say, the durability of the goretex boots now reallY SUCK compared to what they had out 2 years ago. The farking boot wears out so damn fast! -
Actually, the Viet Cong proved that it is possible to have tunnels and hiding spots in the jungle. Man that gives me nightmares...Originally posted by tankee1981:As the world become increasingly urbanised, our future possible battlefield is most likely to be in an urban environment as compared to the traditional jungle. In an urban setting, enemy fire can come from all directions, the enemy may even hide in the sewers and pop up for an ambush after you have walk past then quickly disappear underground! This is certainly impossible when fighting in the jungle.
The chances of being hit by enemy fire at relatively close ranges is much higher as compared to fighting in the jungle. Thus body armour becomes increasingly important to the modern soldier engaging in MOUT or FIBUA.
Also thinking of body armounr and urban warfare, anyone know if our current body armour can stop a rifle round at close range? Man of the early body armours couldn't stop a rifle round. Not that I'd say "no" to being offered body armour.
There is a school of thought that without the extra weight of body armour would enable you to move that bit faster, that might give you a better chance of being hit in the first place.. -
Depends on the level of protection on the vest you are wearing, the 8kg vest can stop an AK47 round at level 3 protection. Of course AP ammo would penetrate the vest.
And the weight issue depends on how much you are willing to lug. At a certain point it is true too much armour would make you catch rounds you might have missed if you ran a bit faster... but frankly there is little way to outrun bullets in a FIBUA engagement and armour becomes much more useful. So it's always a matter of compromise. -
Not forgetting flexible ballistic shields which can be fitted with trauma plates. Coz unlike the current hard ballistic shields which are heavier, the flexible ballistic shields are lighter but does not scarifice protection.
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"MINDEF sources say a replacement for the AMX-13SM1 light tank will be considered within the next five years. "We are looking at whether we should replace this with a similar class of vehicle, or introduce a new concept fulfilling the basic function of a tank but not necessarily looking like one," a source explained. "The USA has looked at the Future Combat System [FCS] and we find that to be an attractive idea. We can explore along a similar line." Though as the FCS is only just on the drawing board (Jane's Defence Weekly 13 June), a similar system for Singapore is some time away..."
besides its funny how so many of you are carried away by your boy fantasies...MLRS? great huh...but why didnt we? surely we can afford it...have the people to operate it...simple...the reluctance to introduce advanced technologies to the region...why trigger an arms race forcing the need to acquire new technologyy every now and then just because of your ego to show off? and our SAF/Mindef has done well not to isnt it? wake up boys... -
I haven't had the opp to wear one of the armour vest yet... But 8kg sounds like a lot on top of everything else. Not to mention, with the new rounds from the AK74 and the SS109 bullet from the later model M16s version, penetration is supposed to be better. And the fact that in FIBUA, we are pretty much talking about almost point blank range if not point blank (for a rifle), what is the effectiveness?Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Depends on the level of protection on the vest you are wearing, the 8kg vest can stop an AK47 round at level 3 protection. Of course AP ammo would penetrate the vest.
And the weight issue depends on how much you are willing to lug. At a certain point it is true too much armour would make you catch rounds you might have missed if you ran a bit faster... but frankly there is little way to outrun bullets in a FIBUA engagement and armour becomes much more useful. So it's always a matter of compromise.
Again, as I said, I'll be the first to don a armour, but for discussion sake, how effective will it be? Can't imagine being very mobile wearing a 10 - 12 kg vest in a FIBUA enviroment where speed can be life. -
Yes, no doubt in a FIBUA/CQB environment Speed is Life, protection is too.Anyway,the vest need not be that heavy,it can be modular and be able to hold inserts such as ceramic plates,steel plates etc. Lets say in a low risk environment, we'll use the armour without inserts, in a high risk environment, we'll up the inserts. Won't that be of better? Although it is more troublesome, it still saves weight and keeps everyone happy eh?
Anyway, I tink that the body armour itself ain't tt happy, however its the inserts, the magazines of ammo, grenades and a bazillion other essential or op-specific gear. -
Again, as I said, I'll be the first to don a armour, but for discussion sake, how effective will it be? Can't imagine being very mobile wearing a 10 - 12 kg vest in a FIBUA enviroment where speed can be life.
8 kilos ought to be the max for body armour nowadays... it used to go up to 11 kgs.
But then again as much as mobility is important, it is quite likely that there are plenty of hazards that you cannot run away from. Fragmentations, booby traps, high volumes of fire and the like in which speed can't save.
What about fighting in buildings? Where there is little place to run away to?
It's always a matter of compromise here and there. I don't believe the two are not reconcilable, but more of a matter of common sense. -
New land walker replacement for armour
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVwbUljGs3g -
Possibly Freeze Dired Blood packs where the troops are required to give mebbe like 3-4 packs of blood during their NS term, and this can be used in the event of conflict. As blood will definitely be in short supply then.
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trust me lah, the flakjacket is not as cumbersome as it sounds...as time goes by you won't even realise you're wearing one!
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Janes World Armies 18 th Ed,Dec 2005
what Sg wants
1.In AA 06,there is a light recce vehicle.
CROWS with light weight launcher & metall ??
SAF new toys in AA
What is CROWS? -
Hi,Originally posted by four-niner:The guards do have some very credible ATGW but only for secret spearhead units will they use these ATGW but the rest of the non-spearhead guard units and infantry battalions is it not the anti-tank component is comprised of 84mm section? Tell me what is the capability of the 84mm RR hmmm ..? is it not the role of 84mm section doing close firebase support or tiger force hmm ?
If they meet a pandur or scorpion ok sup sup sui. But tell me what happens if they meet a T80 or PT91 hmm?
That is why if you read carefully my post I also said "if you don't want to have another antitank component in combat units put them under strength of brigade" did I not say that?
btw the normal infantry section antitank component is only law or matador which will undoubtly just create a small small scratch on a T80 or Pt91 only.
a normal infantry section will not go around hunting for a MBT to kill. However, under some circumstances it might have to defend itself against a MBT.
Although a LAW cannot "destroy" a MBT, by arming our infantry sections with MBTs, it will at least deter the MBTs from trying to over-run our infantry.... -
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
Hmmm... Didn't we already acquire the rights to produce the Igla already? That would be our MANPADs no?
Janes World Armies 18 th Ed,Dec 2005
what Sg wants
1.In AA 06,there is a light recce vehicle.
CROWS with light weight launcher & metall ??
[b]SAF new toys in AA
What is CROWS?[/b]
Didn't know we were looking for a MLRS.
Another light recce vehicle? So we replace the Mercedes Jeep? Would think the replacement of our Land Rover Defenders would be more urgent. -
Land Rovers is a death trap. Much more worse than our AMX-13. Zero ballistic protection. IED will wipe it out.
I prefer the Casspir (Sth African) or Saracen (UK). More modern examples are Cougar (US) etc. Note this is armoured troop transport, not to confused with IFV and APCs. On that note, the Saracen was designed to ferry troops from the UK to frontline in Europe,
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2006/08/dutch-spend-eur-25m-on-bushmaster-imvs-for-afghan-mission/index.php
Despite ongoing US procurement of M1151/M1152 Hummers, the retreat from Jeep-like vehicles is accelerating among Western militaries. Insufficiently protected against land mine threats in modern conflict zones, and insufficiently protectable due to inherent design limitations, conventional vehicles like G-Wagens, Land Rovers, and HMMWVs are being replaced in manufacturer lineups and military acquisitions by more protectable truck-based models, or by dedicated mine-resistant patrol vehicles. DID has covered the USA's M1117 Guardian ASVs, with orders numbering over 1,200 and production resuming in Hurricane Katrina's wake. We've also covered Iraq and Britain's acquisition of Force Protection's Cougar variants, Belgium's buys of Dingo and Iveco Panther vehicles as the mainstays of its future fleet, Canada's emergency buy of RG-31 Nyalas, Denmark's order for MOWAG Eagle IV vehicles (no longer HMMWV-based like the Eagle III) and Duro trucks, Germany's additional purchases of KMW Dingo 2 vehicles, and Israel's potential purchase of same; and Norway's emergency procurement of Iveco Panthers. -
i think CROWS is armoured.
any info? -
I used to carry a 14kg radio pack during FIBUA and FOFO and route march through jungle on top of
Dam fu.cking siong.
Imagine trying to jump out of a comms trench or get up quickly from prone position.
Sometimes so tired after rest stop gotta get people to pull me up.
So 8kg body should be just a little less siong - but would still be fu.cking bad if you also happen to be the LAW gunner or M203 or SAW gunner.
8kg no joke, so I really am 2 minds about body armour. Your fire movement will be in slow motion.
The chance of getting hit does increase as you are fatigue from just wearing so much weight.
Even the bigger American professional soldiers find body armour heavy. Imagine Asian conscripts like us. -
Perhaps we should develop more lightweight stuff, coz unlike our American/Western counterparts who tend to have an advantage of size, we Asians don't. Thus we might have to consider developing equipment more suited for the Asian built. Hell, Comms. equipment has always been a complaint by my frens who are serving...
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Speaking of comms...are there any plans to replace the current comms equipment for a 3G SAF? Especially the small ones used by the ground troops.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Perhaps we should develop more lightweight stuff, coz unlike our American/Western counterparts who tend to have an advantage of size, we Asians don't. Thus we might have to consider developing equipment more suited for the Asian built. Hell, Comms. equipment has always been a complaint by my frens who are serving...
There are lots of talk of integration of the new AH-64D Apaches and other large weapons systems but not much is mentioned about comms which play a vital part in a network-centric warfare of tomorrow's war. -
Yes, thus can you imagine carrying the 8kg radio set on top of the 8 kg body armour on top of full ammo load out and all the other stuff?Originally posted by moca:I used to carry a 14kg radio pack during FIBUA and FOFO and route march through jungle on top of
Dam fu.cking siong.
Imagine trying to jump out of a comms trench or get up quickly from prone position.
Sometimes so tired after rest stop gotta get people to pull me up.
So 8kg body should be just a little less siong - but would still be fu.cking bad if you also happen to be the LAW gunner or M203 or SAW gunner.
8kg no joke, so I really am 2 minds about body armour. Your fire movement will be in slow motion.
The chance of getting hit does increase as you are fatigue from just wearing so much weight.
Even the bigger American professional soldiers find body armour heavy. Imagine Asian conscripts like us.
We definitely need lighter options. Hopefully this is something DSTA is working on. Together with light radio sets! -
Yes, especially since there are so many lighter commercial models available in the market today that have the same or even better performance! Now I don't think the commercial models available at your Lucky Plaza shop is an option, but I'm sure military off-the-shelf models are available.Originally posted by tankee1981:Speaking of comms...are there any plans to replace the current comms equipment for a 3G SAF? Especially the small ones used by the ground troops.
There are lots of talk of integration of the new AH-64D Apaches and other large weapons systems but not much is mentioned about comms which play a vital part in a network-centric warfare of tomorrow's war.