most urgently needed weapons......
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Originally posted by four-niner:
Yes it is possible to ATGM to counter any tank threat. So can an anti tank ditch
aiyoh .... equip all the combat soldier each carry one RPG29 or RPG27 loh ... whatever T80 or Pt91 come what may also can settle.
http://world.guns.ru/grenade/rpg-29.jpg
[b]Caliber: 105 mm barrel; 65/105mm warheads
Type: rocket booster
Overall length: 1850 mm ready to fire; 1000 mm disassembled for transportation
Weight: 12.1 kg unloaded, with optical sight; 18.8 kg loaded and ready to fire
Effective range: up to 500 m
Armour penetration: ERA plus more than 600 mm RHA
COST
R-29 launchers cost over US$500 each, and the rockets for about $300 each.
RPG-27s cost over $500 each
http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/articles/military_photos_2004614.asp
NUMBERS GAME
How many millions can they throw on buying Pt-91 or T80?
For every 1 super tank they buy we follow up by equipping 10 combat soldiers each carry one RPG29, One Pt-91 or T80 mbt can tahan how many rpg fired up it's armored backside?
we have over 300k guys to equip we shud just find the cheapest way to counter can liao. 300,000, 10 guys to cover 1 tank is abt 30,000 tanks, can anybody tell me who can afford 30,000 tanks in this region?
For instance 1 RPG-29 + 1 rocket cost US800 x 30,000 = USD24mil
48 - Pt-91 for 400million incl spares + support. Cost of 1 tank with spares and support USD8.3 million
dedicating 10 RPG rockets to 1 tank cost USD8000 to kill 8.3million or 9%
For them or anybody to counter our 30k RPG using tanks will cost
8.3 million * 30,000 = USD249 billion worth of palm oil they have to sell for the next 900 years [/b]
Seriously speaking, there are other advantages of having a tank, besides its obvious anti-tank role. Mobile fire support, anti-bunker, infantry suppression and sheer presence. -
Probably be way over budget. I'm guessing the Le Clerc or even the older AMX30 would be more affordable. Or maybe even the Merkeva (screw Madhathir & his anti Jewish thoughts, what we buy is our business not his).Originally posted by glock:AMX 13 SM 1 replacement concept - see attached.
I personally will go for off the shelf battle proven MBT - eg M1 A1, A2 -
Allo! One more time, have you done your NS? The Milian and Spike ATGWs were bought with a mission in mind. Heck I think there are even some 106 platoons around. You might want to read: http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/news_and_events/nr/1999/jul/13jul99_nr.htmlOriginally posted by four-niner:The guards do have some very credible ATGW but only for secret spearhead units will they use these ATGW but the rest of the non-spearhead guard units and infantry battalions is it not the anti-tank component is comprised of 84mm section? Tell me what is the capability of the 84mm RR hmmm ..? is it not the role of 84mm section doing close firebase support or tiger force hmm ?
If they meet a pandur or scorpion ok sup sup sui. But tell me what happens if they meet a T80 or PT91 hmm?
That is why if you read carefully my post I also said "if you don't want to have another antitank component in combat units put them under strength of brigade" did I not say that?
btw the normal infantry section antitank component is only law or matador which will undoubtly just create a small small scratch on a T80 or Pt91 only.
Actually a well aimed Matodor "delivered" to the right place at the right range can do significant damage as well. The 84 is not to be laughed at either. Altho I think it's time they replace them as well. -
yah yah .. I know where the weakest part of a tank.Originally posted by insouciant:Allo! One more time, have you done your NS? The Milian and Spike ATGWs were bought with a mission in mind. Heck I think there are even some 106 platoons around. You might want to read: http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/news_and_events/nr/1999/jul/13jul99_nr.html
Actually a well aimed Matodor "delivered" to the right place at the right range can do significant damage as well. The 84 is not to be laughed at either. Altho I think it's time they replace them as well.
You dig a trench then wait for a tank to run over it. Then you fire your matador or 84 into the balls of the tank a point blank range to kill it.
Of course you sacrifice yourself also. hmmm .... right place and right range ok ok -
I think you need this...
A Rubberband Gattling Gun with 12 barrels that can fire 144 rounds as fast as you can turn the handle..... -
Now this is one bad ass civilian toy!Originally posted by Darkness_hacker99:I think you need this...
A Rubberband Gattling Gun with 12 barrels that can fire 144 rounds as fast as you can turn the handle.....
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Originally posted by tankee1981:Now this is one bad ass civilian toy!
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Who ask you to shoot at point blank range? But then can't blame you since you obviously haven't served NS in a combat unit if you served NS at all.Originally posted by four-niner:yah yah .. I know where the weakest part of a tank.
You dig a trench then wait for a tank to run over it. Then you fire your matador or 84 into the balls of the tank a point blank range to kill it.
Of course you sacrifice yourself also. hmmm .... right place and right range ok ok -
The answer to all the questions, leaked video of our top secret weapon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVwbUljGs3g&mode=related&search= -
Serving NS does not make one a field expert and certainly does not qualify one to participate in this thread.Originally posted by insouciant:Who ask you to shoot at point blank range? But then can't blame you since you obviously haven't served NS in a combat unit if you served NS at all.
And ...
By not engaging me intellectually or stating your points to rebut my posts and keep harping on whether I have done NS in a combat unit or at all just points to one thing and that is you have run low on "AMMO" on anything meaningful to say so you are using unrelated topics like "Have you done NS" to try to disqualify my post in this thread.
Shame on you, you little monkey -
That is true... serving NS doesn't make one a field expert, but you are not disqualified because u haven't served. You are told off because your understanding of war is shallow and childish.Originally posted by four-niner:Serving NS does not make one a field expert and certainly does not qualify one to participate in this thread.
And ...
By not engaging me intellectually or stating your points to rebut my posts and keep harping on whether I have done NS in a combat unit or at all just points to one thing and that is you have run low on "AMMO" on anything meaningful to say so you are using unrelated topics like "Have you done NS" to try to disqualify my post in this thread.
If u were really targeting the belly, there is another option. its called an A-T mine. Hizbollah just proved over the past week that it works even against Israeli Merkavas. They didn't even need RPGs...
The organic infantry section IS pretty weak in a heavy anti-tank role. The reason is because THEY WERE NEVER MEANT TO BE USED AGAINST HEAVY ARMOUR.
The organic infantry section is also pretty weak in an anti-air role for the same reason. Even if u saw a low flying jet, no one expects u to whip an Igla outta your arse to shoot at it.
What is the point of arming soldiers to fight enemies they were never intended to fight? the excess metal becomes dead weight and will only get in the way.
There are other options available.
Besides, if u actually bashed headlong into an enemy tank platoon, you must be really deaf to let that happen cos i cannot imagine how you could not have heard them from miles away...
You CANNOT not hear a tank platoon... that gives u more than enough time to consider your options and call in back-up if needs be.
I think everyone appreciate your attempts at intellectual conversation, but i really do wish that you would moderate your tone. You are excessively condescending for no good reasons.
And while it is tempting to say that we ought to just arm every trooper with an RPG, you have to be aware of a few things: one more piece of equipment brought to the field is one less piece you could have carried with you.
The trade-off could be food, water, ammunition, communication, optics and most importantly, field endurance. A soldier that just trudged 20+ clicks with a full combat load and an RPG isn't in much fit shape to do much else... We're not supermen. Now, if your RPG fits in my SBO pouch, i don't mind...
And as i mentioned, tanks don't move quietly. And they are mostly road bound. You can try using them to bash through thick jungle but if time is of the essence, you wouldn't.
So what is the point of arming troopers with RPGs again? when with superior intelligence and convergence, you know where the tanks are gonna be and u can despatch superior assets to deal with them?
War is not fought with isolated weapon platforms.
There is a perceived gap in SAF's armour. That, we have known for years... Can the problem be solved if u gave every trooper an RPG? or if u bought a boatload of flashy new heavy tanks? i don't think so...
So lets not over-simplify the problem shall we? -
We are going soooo OT
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It looks flimsy and slow but its a job well done considering its done by amateurs!Originally posted by gary1910:The answer to all the questions, leaked video of our top secret weapon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVwbUljGs3g&mode=related&search= -
It reloads automatically?!Originally posted by Darkness_hacker99:I think you need this...
A Rubberband Gattling Gun with 12 barrels that can fire 144 rounds as fast as you can turn the handle.....
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Thank you. Glad someone else pointed out his "intellectual" mistakes.Originally posted by CX:That is true... serving NS doesn't make one a field expert, but you are not disqualified because u haven't served. You are told off because your understanding of war is shallow and childish.
If u were really targeting the belly, there is another option. its called an A-T mine. Hizbollah just proved over the past week that it works even against Israeli Merkavas. They didn't even need RPGs...
The organic infantry section IS pretty weak in a heavy anti-tank role. The reason is because THEY WERE NEVER MEANT TO BE USED AGAINST HEAVY ARMOUR.
The organic infantry section is also pretty weak in an anti-air role for the same reason. Even if u saw a low flying jet, no one expects u to whip an Igla outta your arse to shoot at it.
What is the point of arming soldiers to fight enemies they were never intended to fight? the excess metal becomes dead weight and will only get in the way.
There are other options available.
Besides, if u actually bashed headlong into an enemy tank platoon, you must be really deaf to let that happen cos i cannot imagine how you could not have heard them from miles away...
You CANNOT not hear a tank platoon... that gives u more than enough time to consider your options and call in back-up if needs be.
I think everyone appreciate your attempts at intellectual conversation, but i really do wish that you would moderate your tone. You are excessively condescending for no good reasons.
And while it is tempting to say that we ought to just arm every trooper with an RPG, you have to be aware of a few things: one more piece of equipment brought to the field is one less piece you could have carried with you.
The trade-off could be food, water, ammunition, communication, optics and most importantly, field endurance. A soldier that just trudged 20+ clicks with a full combat load and an RPG isn't in much fit shape to do much else... We're not supermen. Now, if your RPG fits in my SBO pouch, i don't mind...
And as i mentioned, tanks don't move quietly. And they are mostly road bound. You can try using them to bash through thick jungle but if time is of the essence, you wouldn't.
So what is the point of arming troopers with RPGs again? when with superior intelligence and convergence, you know where the tanks are gonna be and u can despatch superior assets to deal with them?
War is not fought with isolated weapon platforms.
There is a perceived gap in SAF's armour. That, we have known for years... Can the problem be solved if u gave every trooper an RPG? or if u bought a boatload of flashy new heavy tanks? i don't think so...
So lets not over-simplify the problem shall we?
Btw, four-niner, I wasn't disqualifying from this thread because you haven't served NS. I was just pointing out that if you want to make suggestions to the SAF, it might be a good idea to really know what the SAF is doing. Your ignoring the Spike and Milan capabilities is a glaring oversight. Amongst other things that were correctly pointed out CX (thanks!).
You have every right to contribute. Just that you should really understand the subject before you try and put down someone. -
Most welcome...Originally posted by insouciant:Thank you. Glad someone else pointed out his "intellectual" mistakes.
Btw, four-niner, I wasn't disqualifying from this thread because you haven't served NS. I was just pointing out that if you want to make suggestions to the SAF, it might be a good idea to really know what the SAF is doing. Your ignoring the Spike and Milan capabilities is a glaring oversight. Amongst other things that were correctly pointed out CX (thanks!).
You have every right to contribute. Just that you should really understand the subject before you try and put down someone. -
in the spirit of four-niner, may I suggest equipping each soldier with a M82 Barrett as a sidearm to complement the RPG-7 they will be carrying.
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Don't forget Master Chief's MJOLNIR armour as well.
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Frankly,I did say that we need body armour for our Army most. Though its not a weapon, I did say that's the most important. Though its costly, the spending on body armour is the same rationale on why SOF/CDO etc...will be tasked to rescue downed pilots in war.
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Actually I think some of the units have been issued body armour. Saw this unit that wasn't SOF/cdo that was wearing it recently. They look hot and miserable like heck.
But the reservists units definitely still haven't been issued. -
Body armour is going to find it's way into service one way or another if our defence planners have basic sense. There is no beef about it, in an urban conflict (which we will fight) it saves a lot of lives and reduces the severity of wounds.
I can't imagine doing FIBUA clearing without body armour, as heavy or hot it may be. Sooner or later somebody is going to catch a round or grenade no matter how fast he moves. When that happens a PASGT that covers only your head is not considered proper protection. -
Agree, but can't imagine when I actually have to do FIBUA with it on...Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Body armour is going to find it's way into service one way or another if our defence planners have basic sense. There is no beef about it, in an urban conflict (which we will fight) it saves a lot of lives and reduces the severity of wounds.
I can't imagine doing FIBUA clearing without body armour, as heavy or hot it may be. Sooner or later somebody is going to catch a round or grenade no matter how fast he moves. When that happens a PASGT that covers only your head is not considered proper protection.
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Simple, just imagine an extra 8KG and more hokkien vulgarities as people run, jump, and climb about the buildings.Originally posted by insouciant:Agree, but can't imagine when I actually have to do FIBUA with it on... -
if you adjust it properly for provision to your webbing and fieldpack, it's actually not that bad...if not the it'll end up compressing your chest when you go for route march...it's all in how you condition your body
