smoke grenade lauchers on SAF armoured vehicles
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I was wondering wat dictates the number of smoke grenade launchers to be fixed on each side of the vehicles.?Like SAF seems to put 3 lauchers on each side. But Malaysia's PT-91 seems to have more than 3 on each side, the same for other countries armoured vehicles. Wad other type of ammunitions can be fired from it? can it be reloaded from inside the vehicle?
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Its a single use smoke grenade launcher. Cannot be reloaded from the vehicle itself. No other ammunition besides smoke.
Purpose is used to cover (smoke out) a retreat, so the enemy doesnt have a clear shot of the vehicle trying to get away. Or can also used to be screen another force passing behind that force. -
Ours is 76MM no idea wat e size of e PT-91m's. So far only smoke rds
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I am talking about the SM1 here. Yes, the smoke launchers can only be reloaded externally. It works some what like a motar which is electically fired.
I supposed theoretically the smoke launchers can fired other time of ammo such as illum rds, given that the calibre is right and designed to be fired from these launchers. However, i have not seen or read any thing like that before.
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You practically are not able to aim the launchers except in the general direction the canisters are facing .Originally posted by tankee1981:I am talking about the SM1 here. Yes, the smoke launchers can only be reloaded externally. It works some what like a motar which is electically fired.
I supposed theoretically the smoke launchers can fired other time of ammo such as illum rds, given that the calibre is right and designed to be fired from these launchers. However, i have not seen or read any thing like that before.
So , for iLLum rounds , get the M203 to fire it.
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Gee, I would think the gunner's sight and the commanders sights would have thermal imaging... lol, need illum for?
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Fireworks display in the event of victory.Originally posted by Shotgun:Gee, I would think the gunner's sight and the commanders sights would have thermal imaging... lol, need illum for?
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Originally posted by Shotgun
Sorry, no thermal imaging for the SM1 but have NVGs(commander) and night sight(gunner).
Gee, I would think the gunner's sight and the commanders sights would have thermal imaging... lol, need illum for?Originally posted by NotfromVenus
Since illum rounds will light up a vast area the direction is not very important. This is not very practical for SAF because the illum rds if fired may blind the NV devices and the night sights, this is just a possible application. Thermal imaging is the way to go for SM1's replacement.
You practically are not able to aim the launchers except in the general direction the canisters are facing .
So , for iLLum rounds , get the M203 to fire it. -
That's like going:"Hello!! I'm here!!! shoot me now!!!Originally posted by tankee1981:Since illum rounds will light up a vast area the direction is not very important. This is not very practical for SAF because the illum rds if fired may blind the NV devices and the night sights, this is just a possible application. Thermal imaging is the way to go for SM1's replacement. " -
A lot of Russian-made tanks have this ability to create a smokescreen by injecting diesle fuel into some gadgets or something. I've read that in many places but don't know if this is more effective than smoke dischargers.
I have seen MBT's with about 6 or more smoke dischargers on EACh side of the tank turrets. So three is quite modest.
Are there heat-seeking anti-tank missiles? I think there are, and if I'm not wrong, they are fired from aircrafts. If there are indeed heat-seeking AT missiles, then would it be useful for these dischargers to fire flares to confuse such missiles - like on aircrafts? -
Originally posted by moca:
Generating smoke in this manner is a (relatively) simple matter of injecting diesel fuel into the exhaust manifold in a controlled amount. Off the top of my head, I know that the Chally 2 and M60A3 can do this ... seen it on video. I'm sure the complete list is likely to be much longer than that.
A lot of Russian-made tanks have this ability to create a smokescreen by injecting diesle fuel into some gadgets or something. I've read that in many places but don't know if this is more effective than smoke dischargers.
The difference between smoke from diesel smoke generators and smoke grenade launchers is a matter of time and obscuration qualities.
Smoke grenade launchers fire their grenades off in a pre-determined pattern. The grenades explode a few metres above the tank, much like one of those fireworks air-burst. The resultant dispersed smoke pellets produce a dense screen that totally cover the firing platform in a couple of seconds. Smoke generators OTOH take much longer to produce an effective screen for the emitting tank, mainly because it is producing smoke from a single source instead of from hundreds of dispersed pellets. Think of the smoke grenades you used to chuck around and how long it took to produce effective concealment.
Smoke grenades also typically use a phospor/rubber compound as their active ingredient and this generates a screen that works not only in the visible spectrum but also in the IR spectrum, effectively concealing the platform from thermal sights. Diesel smoke OTOH only works in the visible spectrum.I have seen MBT's with about 6 or more smoke dischargers on EACh side of the tank turrets. So three is quite modest.
I have also seen AFVs/IFVs with only 3 or 4 launcher per side. The ACV-S, BMP-3 and CV9040 comes to mind.
What matters most is not how many launchers there are per-se but rather how the launchers, the size of their grenades and firing patterns achieves total coverage for the firing platform.
I'm sure that the SAF and STEngg have taken this into account and are satisfied with the pattern/coverage they are getting from their smoke grenade launchers. On a side note, the AMX-13 only has 2 per side (?) but given that it is essentially AFV/IFV sized, this is about correct ... ?
Are there heat-seeking anti-tank missiles? I think there are, and if I'm not wrong, they are fired from aircrafts. If there are indeed heat-seeking AT missiles, then would it be useful for these dischargers to fire flares to confuse such missiles - like on aircrafts?
There are Imaging Infra Red ATGMs, the Javelin and Spike (in fire-and-forget mode) comes to mind. They are not heat seeking per se, as in they do not home into the brightest heat source like the AAMs of old. Instead the operator "shows" a picture of the target in the IR spectrum (for day/night operability) and the missle homes in on the IR image that matches what it was given. As such, flares do not so much confuse as obscure the image seen by the missle.
There are also wire guided ATGMs that rely on the IR return from the missle to provide guidance. These too have counter-measures built in to prevent bright IR sources from confusing the return from the missle to the guidance unit. -
The smoke generators can be used to mask/screen movement of vehicles. Eg, 1 platoon of tanks with smoke generator smoke as they dash around the flanks. The smoke covers like another 3-4 platoons of lighter vehicles dashing together with the tanks. Pretty useful stuff.
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I think the Eastern Bloc armour are more into smoke launchers.
did see those Indian army T72s, they must have like more then 15 launchers. -
I just saw a picture of the PT-91M MBT which the Malaysians have show cased in their NDP last year. It have 12 smoke launchers on just one side of the turret! That makes up of 24 for each tank! That is pretty alot.
Actually the SM1 also have the capability to generate a smoke screen with the engine but this is very seldom if not never used nowadays. -
When it catches fire?Originally posted by tankee1981:Actually the SM1 also have the capability to generate a smoke screen with the engine.... -
Found out other vehicles in the US ORBAT that can produce smoke through their vehicular exhaust ... The VEESS is a vehicle-mounted smoke system that produces smoke by vaporizing (diesel) fuel with the exhaust system. Vehicles that currently have the VEESS include the AVLB, CEV, M88A1, M60, M1, M2, and M3 families of combat vehicles.
Plus ... Everything you've wanted to know about smoke ... or not
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Originally posted by Daniel-Lim:When it catches fire? ROFL!
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You're the MAN on smoke grenade!!!Originally posted by kotay:Generating smoke in this manner is a (relatively) simple matter of injecting diesel fuel into the exhaust manifold in a controlled amount. Off the top of my head, I know that the Chally 2 and M60A3 can do this ... seen it on video. I'm sure the complete list is likely to be much longer than that.
The difference between smoke from diesel smoke generators and smoke grenade launchers is a matter of time and obscuration qualities.
A bit "chiminology" but very insightful. -
Today there is army hardware display at Temasek poly, guys go take a look. There is the Primus, Bionix, mechanised Igla and M113 ultra. Something interesting I noticed is that the Bionix display signboard quotes that the vehicle is 26 tons. WOW! The up gunned bionix is so heavy, then isnt our new light tank going to exceed the 30 tonnes restriction?
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Interesting, are you refering to 30mm upgunned Bionix MkII???Originally posted by equlus84:Today there is army hardware display at Temasek poly, guys go take a look. There is the Primus, Bionix, mechanised Igla and M113 ultra. Something interesting I noticed is that the Bionix display signboard quotes that the vehicle is 26 tons. WOW! The up gunned bionix is so heavy, then isnt our new light tank going to exceed the 30 tonnes restriction?
Any picture??? -
Yes i am interested to see how the 30mm BX look like too!
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the last time i launched smoke from BX...
only 2 out of 6 rounds fired away...
the remaining 4 rounds got stuck and started burning in the launcher...
had to extinguish them with the fire extinguisher and PC FORCED me to sign 1206 for it..
wtf...
in the end encik stood up for me and i dun have to pay...
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What?! PC ask you to sign 1206? For what - the launcher? That's pretty dumb. Next they ask to pay for the rubber pads that came off the tracks.Originally posted by GHoST_18:the last time i launched smoke from BX...
only 2 out of 6 rounds fired away...
the remaining 4 rounds got stuck and started burning in the launcher...
had to extinguish them with the fire extinguisher and PC FORCED me to sign 1206 for it..
wtf...
in the end encik stood up for me and i dun have to pay... -
for whatever that's damaged or used...Originally posted by bcoy:What?! PC ask you to sign 1206? For what - the launcher? That's pretty dumb. Next they ask to pay for the rubber pads that came off the tracks.
he was the ic... and he just wanna push the blame to someone... -
Sometimes, a man has to stand up for what is right and prepare for the consequence of having stood up for justice.Originally posted by GHoST_18:the last time i launched smoke from BX...
only 2 out of 6 rounds fired away...
the remaining 4 rounds got stuck and started burning in the launcher...
had to extinguish them with the fire extinguisher and PC FORCED me to sign 1206 for it..
wtf...
in the end encik stood up for me and i dun have to pay...