BBC Documentary - How Vietnam Was Lost
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i don't have to. i just have to name you lands where there are more than one presidential candidates. or did u not understand my last post?Originally posted by tripwire:why dont you name me a land where everyone is a president... before you continue your endless mumbling... about ideals...
President got one. But winning that seat by reject all other candidacies? How low are u willing to stoop?
Or shall I name lands where the presidents of past and present has not all been from the same party?
please. u're obviously not willing to listen or understand. -
i only don't think very high of certain Singaporeans.Originally posted by tripwire:did i specifically pointed out that you are sniping fellow singaporeans?
lamenting?? just who is the ones yakking around "we've seen that happen. Does it really work? Do people dare to vote for what's right, or do they only dare vote for what they're comfortable and used to, instead of leaving their comfort zone. "
obviously.. you dont think very high of singaporeans.. if so... no point "l-a-m-e-n-t-i-n-g".
and show me the "REAL" world... even the sky seen from beneath the well.. is still "REAL" sky... just for your information...
then again, u can't blame me, because i tend not to like people who decide to live like lap dogs. They remind me of paris hilton's pet chihuahua -
in time... it will evolve... nothing is forever... except changes...Originally posted by HENG@:so how do we temper that ideal? by rejecting every application for presidency except for your own party's candidate?
ha ha ha. tell me another good one
our first few president dont even need to be voted into office...
someone just pluck them up from some vegetable farm and drop them into the office of the president...
even in UK they still have a monarch... when they have a parliament far longer in existance then singapore... -
to that i will post this to you againOriginally posted by tripwire:news for you too....
there isnt a land on this world... where ideals exist purely without restriction...
nor is there a land on this world.. where there are no inequality and absolute freedom.
our system aint perfect... because we are not perfect...
imperfection is part of this world...
while we can continue to seek perfections... please understand that for every action.. there are other effects other then the intended effects.
perfection can be seek... but cannot be gain... we are doomed to live in such a world...
it is up to you to decide how you want to live your live... through your freedom of choice out of countless other alternatives... or... even lamenting here.. is also a choice of your free will...
U're saying we should accept the flawed. I'm saying no matter where we are, we should not, because by not accepting something flawed, changes, improvements happen. You familiar with the chinese phrase "bu qiu shang jing"? the term complacency sounds familiar? to be content because there is no land where ideals exist purely without restriction where there are no inequality and absolute freedom, is to doom yourself to social regression.
if you want to be the death of progress, go ahead. Apathy is also a choice of yr free will. But I won't sit by and see singapore get poisoned like this by power abuse and apathy. -
at least our monarchy earns tourist money. wad does the for show-president in sg do?Originally posted by tripwire:in time... it will evolve... nothing is forever... except changes...
our first few president dont even need to be voted into office...
someone just pluck them up from some vegetable farm and drop them into the office of the president...
even in UK they still have a monarch... when they have a parliament far longer in existance then singapore...
can we display him in public and earn some tourist bucks like we do with Queen Eliz II too? If we do that maybe I'll stop "lamenting" -
eh! When? What channel?Originally posted by HENG@:In one weekend in 1967, two occurrences at opposite ends of the world began the process whereby Americans convinced themselves that the Vietnam War was not worth fighting.
One of these was the ambush of an American battalion by the Vietcong, resulting in 61 casualties. The other was at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, where state police ejected students who were campaigning against the presence presence on campus of recruiting agents for napalm manufacturers Dow Chemical.
I just finished watching this BBC documentary. Very intense, almost emotional documentary.
Survivors of the ambush talked about that day, about how they were ambushed, about how their Bat. Cmdr tactically screwed up, how he'd never led a command section on the ground b4 (he previously did it from a Bell Sioux Helo). Lt Welch CO of Delta company, gives a particularly insightful and emotional account of the day, especially when he talks about how he woke up on the operating table after the battle (having been shot in the chest, right leg and both arms) and asking the doctor "what happend to his delta" and being told delta is gone(at this point he breaks down a bit in the interview)
As for the Wisconsin Uni demonstration, the police waded in and started beating peaceful students. And that in effect politicized students who previously had no stand either way about the war in vietnam. People interviewed included professors and assistant deans and students who were both involved or uninvolved with the demonstration, who recall with fury how the police, how the authorities betrayed the very values of democracy and free speech by taking action against anyone who opposed their position.
Very profound especially, is the way the war vets talk about how "nobody gives their lives up for their countries. Their lives get torn away from them by their countries" and how "it was a high price to pay for a needless cause".
The documentary also talks about the cover-up or positive spin the American media put on both events, by claiming there was a planned battle instead of an ambush, and by claiming the students were vicious and outnumbered police, forcing police to "fight for their lives"
I think Singaporeans can learn something about what true democracy is, what false fallacies democracy can turn into, and the price we can end up paying for lost causes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/storyville/vietnam.shtml -
sorry. ah I watched it on BBC4. ITs a good documentry tho, part of the storyville series. If its on DVD I'd buy it. Then maybe can lend u alsoOriginally posted by lwflee:eh! When? What channel?
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you are just merely shifting your goal post... but ultimately.. you cant deny that there is no such land on this world... where everyone is equal.Originally posted by HENG@:i don't have to. i just have to name you lands where there are more than one presidential candidates. or did u not understand my last post?
President got one. But winning that seat by reject all other candidacies? How low are u willing to stoop?
Or shall I name lands where the presidents of past and present has not all been from the same party?
please. u're obviously not willing to listen or understand.
and you are the one who refuse to face reality...
standing for elections needs money.. money that will keep you in high profile... money that would help you get your opinions to the people...
the bigger your country.. the more money you need... in the US... election campaign is counted in the billions of dollars ... something that 99.99% of americans will never be able to afford.
as you can see.. the method of restriction is different.. but they exist in every country...
if not.. name me a peasant that was elected into the highest post without money and party support. -
Originally posted by HENG@:sorry. ah I watched it on BBC4. ITs a good documentry tho, part of the storyville series. If its on DVD I'd buy it. Then maybe can lend u also
I am too skint to buy freeview box. -
well i dont really know much on the politics side, but since i was FORCED to learn us history, i definitely know a thing or 2 about the war.
all i can say is, it was a rash decision, the usa sacrificed many lives, and millions and millions of dollars for nothing, vietnam still fell to communism. -
he keeps the peace between different races and religion... an important job in multi-racial singapore....Originally posted by HENG@:at least our monarchy earns tourist money. wad does the for show-president in sg do?
can we display him in public and earn some tourist bucks like we do with Queen Eliz II too? If we do that maybe I'll stop "lamenting"
he is also the last resort of appeal for convicts sentenced to hang.. -
no u're the one who refuses to face reality, by raising ridiculous issues. Sure there are no countries with more than one president, but at least that president has been given a run for his money? He has had to WORK for it?Originally posted by tripwire:you are just merely shifting your goal post... but ultimately.. you cant deny that there is no such land on this world... where everyone is equal.
and you are the one who refuse to face reality...
standing for elections needs money.. money that will keep you in high profile... money that would help you get your opinions to the people...
the bigger your country.. the more money you need... in the US... election campaign is counted in the billions of dollars ... something that 99.99% of americans will never be able to afford.
as you can see.. the method of restriction is different.. but they exist in every country...
if not.. name me a peasant that was elected into the highest post without money and party support.
lets just face it. u're happy with complacency. -
Originally posted by lwflee: I am too skint to buy freeview box.
freeview not free meh? -
i believe that changes will occur in time and in due course... i do not believe that any system can exist forever permanently unchanged.Originally posted by HENG@:to that i will post this to you again
U're saying we should accept the flawed. I'm saying no matter where we are, we should not, because by not accepting something flawed, changes, improvements happen. You familiar with the chinese phrase "bu qiu shang jing"? the term complacency sounds familiar? to be content because there is no land where ideals exist purely without restriction where there are no inequality and absolute freedom, is to doom yourself to social regression.
if you want to be the death of progress, go ahead. Apathy is also a choice of yr free will. But I won't sit by and see singapore get poisoned like this by power abuse and apathy.
in time... changes will occur... and we can only hope it is for the best... -
the thing is, are u hoping for that change? are u looking forward to it? or are u dragging your feet unwilling to leave your comfort zone?Originally posted by tripwire:i believe that changes will occur in time and in due course... i do not believe that any system can exist forever permanently unchanged.
in time... changes will occur... and we can only hope it is for the best... -
what ridiculous issue?Originally posted by HENG@:no u're the one who refuses to face reality, by raising ridiculous issues. Sure there are no countries with more than one president, but at least that president has been given a run for his money? He has had to WORK for it?
lets just face it. u're happy with complacency.
its reality at its cruelest...
there is no chance in hell for an american with 10 bucks to win an election against a party elect with billions at his fingertips...
without media exposure... 99.99% american wont even know what he looks like..
much less vote for him.... -
whats the pt of asking for a country with 2 presidents when we know democracy is about having a choice who should sit in the one available seat?Originally posted by tripwire:what ridiculous issue?
its reality at its cruelest...
there is no chance in hell for an american with 10 bucks to win an election against a party elect with billions at his fingertips...
without media exposure... 99.99% american wont even know what he looks like..
much less vote for him....
nevermind 10 bucks, at least u have a choice, and when someone holding high office know people have a choice, it keeps them honest. -
if you havent noticed it... its been changing all the time... change never stop.Originally posted by HENG@:the thing is, are u hoping for that change? are u looking forward to it? or are u dragging your feet unwilling to leave your comfort zone?
your complaint is the speed of change....is slow.
my concern is that, if it becomes too fast.. our society might break... -
to show that.. its impossible for everyone to be king of the house...Originally posted by HENG@:whats the pt of asking for a country with 2 presidents when we know democracy is about having a choice who should sit in the one available seat?
nevermind 10 bucks, at least u have a choice, and when someone holding high office know people have a choice, it keeps them honest.
and seriously... what kind of threat does a man with 10 buck presents to a man with millions of people behind him and with dozens of billions at his fingertip? -
Then its not a very good society is it? thats evolution for you. Natural selection. If society breaks thats saying something about it.Originally posted by tripwire:if you havent noticed it... its been changing all the time... change never stop.
your complaint is the speed of change....is slow.
my concern is that, if it becomes too fast.. our society might break... -
i never said its possible for everyone to be king of the house. but i keep pointing out, its possible for a democracy to have a choice in who gets to be numero uno. You seem to think its acceptable that a select few decides who gets to be top dog and trample all over the rest of the people who make up their powerbase.Originally posted by tripwire:to show that.. its impossible for everyone to be king of the house...
and seriously... what kind of threat does a man with 10 buck presents to a man with millions of people behind him and with dozens of billions at his fingertip? -
Originally posted by tripwire:
You are very right that there is no land where everyone's the same ... if so then becomes communist, right?
you are just merely shifting your goal post... but ultimately.. you cant deny that there is no such land on this world... where everyone is equal.
and you are the one who refuse to face reality...
standing for elections needs money.. money that will keep you in high profile... money that would help you get your opinions to the people...
the bigger your country.. the more money you need... in the US... election campaign is counted in the billions of dollars ... something that 99.99% of americans will never be able to afford.
as you can see.. the method of restriction is different.. but they exist in every country...
if not.. name me a peasant that was elected into the highest post without money and party support.
Standing for elections require money of course, but do note that many congressman, senators, governors only got to where they were after starting at local elections.
ie, run for village, town mayor, graduate to higher elections etc. Also profile is also raised in elections for other public offices put up for elections depending on locality and practice, eg sheriff, judge, county commissioner, etc.
That's election at every level, participatory politics.
So if you have a track record more people will be more willing to endorse you in words, deed and finances.
That's the American way of life.
Gary Locke - son of poor Chinese immigrants -- then governor of Washington State.
The point is there is no explicit restriction, if you think there is you can go to the courts.
Likewise in ideals - they are just ideals - they should not come with clearly worded restrictions.
The courts (constitutional court) should interpret them according the prevailing societal values and culture. I betcha that Singaporeans are more relaxed and willing have more freedoms that these ideals espoused than allow political parties to use them to their advantage, if not, no real point in being Singaporean.
No one not saying ruling party not good, but "impeccable" should not be a descriptor though.
They also have problems, minister commit suicide from graft investigation, MPs going to jail, brushes with the law, etc
I don't believe we should stick with one-party rule as PM reportedly said in NZ visit.
Too much concentration of power in one party always runs the risk of abuse - which Singaporeans are concerned and have a right to be so.
Too much of Julius, then we really will have a bunch of Caesars.... -
Vietnam War was not a war,legally
speaking
Can u tell me when did US Congress pass the resolution
that US declared law on N Vietnam?
Never.Soldiers sent there was called military advisers.
2.Why US lost?How can the Commanders in thousand miles away in White
House?
US did not intend to win!!The War In America
3.I got it.Gulf of Tonkin Resolution---Joint Resolution of Congress
One of the greatest ironies in a war rich in ironies was that Washington had also moved toward a limited war in Vietnam.
H.J. RES 1145 August 7, 1964Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
Read President Johnson's Message to Congress.
That the Congress approves and supports the determination of the President, as Commander in Chief, to take all necessary measures to repel any armed attack against the forces of the United States and to prevent further aggression.
Just this resolution,so many lives have been changed.
but we should thanks US.If not, Sg may become a communist area, -
i agree. money makes the world go round.Originally posted by tripwire:what ridiculous issue?
its reality at its cruelest...
there is no chance in hell for an american with 10 bucks to win an election against a party elect with billions at his fingertips...
without media exposure... 99.99% american wont even know what he looks like..
much less vote for him....