Electromagnetic weapons
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Warfare is increasing high tech. How vulnerable is SAF against the threat of EM weapons? Another question is do we have EM weapons of our own? Please comment.
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Even e SAF have they wont say & we wouldnt possiably know cos they have 2 kill u
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http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=183967&page=1
I have posted a clip about electromagnetic warfare in the video clip section. It is pretty well made as it is from Military Channel. Please take a look.
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singapore troops dun have much high tech stuff.
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I think Singapore is will be very vulnerable to EM weapons because we are very dependent on high tech equipment. What are our defences?
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I have read articles and professional discussion about this afew years ago. Don't remember where...
EMP weapons while it works.. is however very short ranged. The Charged Capacitors themselves interferes with the most basic guiding systems of their delivery vehicles... meaning alot of work ahead.
Then there are the natural elements to the equation - AIR, trees, mountains, hills, buildings. However, the biggest problem is air.. don't recall the problem.. but it will limits the effectiveness of it... anything short of a nuke explosion... but hiroshima only records a few kilometres of effectiveness, unless the EM weapon can generate such a strength ... then maybe... We are talking about very very very large latent charge here. So if the EMP weapon is of a 2,000 lb iron bomb equivalent size.. it is only effective for a few metres from centre of sphere... a cruize missle would be more effective. However, if detonated on a power station, it will have a ripple effect on power distribution islandwide, but a Tomahawk would also have the same outcome...
However, the use of Silicon Diode(as I recall) will protect systems against this threat.. rendering it useless.. but developement cost is a factor... but not impossible. Silicon Diode itself is not complicated.
If it is truly effective, GWII would have seen it's use... and US would have secretly detonated one at the Iranian Nuclear Generation plant... if they are operating as claimed.
I might be wrong.. but this is what I had gathered... I'm not versed in this field.. so don't shoot a bullet into the back of my head.. -
20 July 2006,USN sets five-year target to develop electromagnetic gun
By Stephen Trimble JDW Americas Bureau Chief
Washington, DCThe US Navy (USN) has instituted a five-year timeline to crack a historically elusive breakthrough in the field of weapons technology - a tactically useful electromagnetic (EM) rail gun.
The potential of electromagnetic power to shatter the speed and range limits of traditional artillery fired by exploding gas has captivated naval and land warfare visionaries for nearly a century, but the promise has always outpaced a number of stubborn technical obstacles.
The development of conductive metals - for the rails, propelling armature and containment bore - strong enough to survive multiple firings is just one of the basic challenges. Controlling the projectile is another concern. The ballistic flightpath of the rail gun's 'bullet' would propel it into space, making re-entry into Earth's atmosphere a survivability issue.
The round would be launched from the gun at a speed of M7.5 and speed at impact on a target 200 n miles away would be about M 5.0. Such speed and range are why some think of EM guns as ushering the next true revolution in weapon technology, with the capability to fire directly on enemy surface ships found within the horizon in six seconds and to fire indirectly on fixed and relocated targets up to 200 n miles away within six minutes.
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They did use EM weapons during GW2, but obviously it was not the kind of kill-all weapon we'd like to think of it as... but it was still useful. Basically a normal iron bomb rebuilt to use its explosion to power an EM pulse. Good for messing up electronics... but then again any electronics close enough to be destroyed by the EM would be destroyed by the blast of the bomb... but still it worked I think, to some extent on electronics out of the blast range...
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Come to think of it... one EMP shockwave and there goes our 3G SAF already.
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Originally posted by p7m13:Come to think of it... one EMP shockwave and there goes our 3G SAF already.
thats why u guys still learn basic combat ma... still gotta learn to hug the mud and do things without hightech stuff~ -
i remember seeing a video of our tanks test-firing a certain round.
it knocked out the video camera. -
Aren't most military electronics and critical infrastructure shielded from the effects of EM?
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nismoS132 mind explaining what you meant by the phrase 'knocked out' in your earlier post?Originally posted by nismoS132:i remember seeing a video of our tanks test-firing a certain round.
it knocked out the video camera.
One possible explanation may be that the camera is knocked out by the strong shock waves after a high velocity FS round is being fired from an SM1. I just want to make sure that you don't mean this kind of knock out.
PS. By the way, are you refering to this clip?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFq2Jqm4h8E&search=tank%20firing -
erm i never heard of a electromagnetic round. doesn't make any sense to mount something like that on a tankOriginally posted by nismoS132:i remember seeing a video of our tanks test-firing a certain round.
it knocked out the video camera. -
looks like wallaby leh.Originally posted by tankee1981:PS. By the way, are you refering to this clip?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFq2Jqm4h8E&search=tank%20firing -
eh the video not so lousy one lah.Originally posted by tankee1981:nismoS132 mind explaining what you meant by the phrase 'knocked out' in your earlier post?
One possible explanation may be that the camera is knocked out by the strong shock waves after a high velocity FS round is being fired from an SM1. I just want to make sure that you don't mean this kind of knock out.
PS. By the way, are you refering to this clip?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFq2Jqm4h8E&search=tank%20firing
the camera was quite far away from the target, basically a round was fired, the target blew up, after 1-2 seconds, the recording became very bad with a lot of static (imagine a bad VHS tape) and later the recording froze. it's not the recording being stopped, i've worked with cameras and worked on short film productions anymore, it was't anything like that.
it wasn't anything online. i was doing a presentation for some higher ups and so i had access to a HDD with all this kind of stuffs. there were also video presentations of the primus test firing and 3d representations of how the insides of the primus works. nothing really top secret lah, more like fancy videos and presentations for impressing the high ranks. -
Proper milspec electronics would be harderned to some aspect, but the civvie stuff is going to be fried. Which would work well if distrupting civvie stuff is your aim.Originally posted by Alvin.Yeoh:Aren't most military electronics and critical infrastructure shielded from the effects of EM?
And come to think of it, the military has a lot of soft electronics as well. Imagine they just EMP your unit HQ, all the paperwork gone liao and people cannot apply for leave through the CLS... sure sian one. -
I think we should harden our equipment to protect them against EM weapons, this is because as we evolve into a 3G military we become increasingly (some may say excessively) dependent on technology for fighting any future war.
On the other hand we should also develop offensive EM weapon capability. This is especially important, should we ever face an enemy who is as or even more technologically advanced than us. -
You know.. the talk of 3G being a milestone in warfare has it's limit... overly dependent on electronic.
You see, when I looked at all the gadgets and Portable handheld palmtops and laptops being used in the field.. It made me wonder how are they going to recharge and how many tons of batteries are they going to bring along in a sustain conflict. To be effective all those gadgets have to be switched on to be effective... and Boy.. do they consume power... how long could those notebook batteries last - 10 hrs.
If all those gadgets are out of batteries in the field.. they are just excess junk.
It's bad enough to to hunk arounf the PRC and all its's batteries.. but I find radio communication are the most important.
The way i see it.. the 3G concept is only suited for short conflict... till logistic problems creeps up with the supply of batteries. while it's a advantage is it's strategic HQ planning and execution of operations... but that's pretty common in modern military structures. What's so 3D about it. Put a palm top on every soldiers hands... once batteries out.. it's still the man with his rifle and radio. -
Yep,totally agree. All these electronic gizmo wizmo all require one form of charging station or other. They can't run on solar too...Its good to go 3G, but 3G also has it limitations. But since the communications being on of the key factors in war, it must be noted that perhaps everyone in the section will now be equipped with their personal comms. with a range of up to like 3km which is reasonable.Originally posted by MobyDog:You know.. the talk of 3G being a milestone in warfare has it's limit... overly dependent on electronic.
You see, when I looked at all the gadgets and Portable handheld palmtops and laptops being used in the field.. It made me wonder how are they going to recharge and how many tons of batteries are they going to bring along in a sustain conflict. To be effective all those gadgets have to be switched on to be effective... and Boy.. do they consume power... how long could those notebook batteries last - 10 hrs.
If all those gadgets are out of batteries in the field.. they are just excess junk.
It's bad enough to to hunk arounf the PRC and all its's batteries.. but I find radio communication are the most important.
The way i see it.. the 3G concept is only suited for short conflict... till logistic problems creeps up with the supply of batteries. while it's a advantage is it's strategic HQ planning and execution of operations... but that's pretty common in modern military structures. What's so 3D about it. Put a palm top on every soldiers hands... once batteries out.. it's still the man with his rifle and radio. -
Fuel cell R&D is reaching maturity.
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If batteries are an issue, one might start to argue that using firearms is not all cracked out as it seems because at the end of the day it's down to the soldier and his meele weapons!
No, I do not think 3G is a load of worthless bull, what it gives the individual soldier a level of situtational awareness never seen before in the history of armed conflict. A force that reacts faster and knows where to hit to distrupt the enemy's Bloyd loop is certainly a lot more useful then truging around in the fog of war.
Imagine attacking an objective and knowing where all the friendies are at all times, imagine being able to tell all troops in the area, even those out of LOS where an enemy position is in an instant. Imagine being able to pass down orders and carry out plans that used to involve a lot of shouting and time wasted getting the act together. Imagine having smart rounds that are able to reach the enemy in cover without having to expose yourself to danger. Imagine having HQ constantly aware of your status and knowing exactly when to pass you supplies or reenforce you.
Is that useful in combat? It certainly is.
Is there a need for electronics? The useful ones I suppose (and there are many useful ones), but I think it's going to be the way of the future. The logistics of the issue just has to catch up with the reality of the situtation, the situtation should not adjust itself to the logistics.
The reality of the thing is that we do not have as many troops to squander like other armies, we need to augment our numbers with technology. I doubt sticking to the bare-bones man and rifle is going to help, because the enemy will end up having more men and rifles and being able to replace them easily. -
If batteries are an issue, one might start to argue that using firearms is not all cracked out as it seems because at the end of the day it's down to the soldier and his meele weapons!
No, I do not think 3G is a load of worthless bull, what it gives the individual soldier a level of situtational awareness never seen before in the history of armed conflict. A force that reacts faster and knows where to hit to distrupt the enemy's Bloyd loop is certainly a lot more useful then truging around in the fog of war.
Imagine attacking an objective and knowing where all the friendies are at all times, imagine being able to tell all troops in the area, even those out of LOS where an enemy position is in an instant. Imagine being able to pass down orders and carry out plans that used to involve a lot of shouting and time wasted getting the act together. Imagine having smart rounds that are able to reach the enemy in cover without having to expose yourself to danger. Imagine having HQ constantly aware of your status and knowing exactly when to pass you supplies or reenforce you.
Is that useful in combat? It certainly is.
Is there a need for electronics? The useful ones I suppose (and there are many useful ones), but I think it's going to be the way of the future. The logistics of the issue just has to catch up with the reality of the situtation, the situtation should not adjust itself to the logistics.
The reality of the thing is that we do not have as many troops to squander like other armies, we need to augment our numbers with technology. I doubt sticking to the bare-bones man and rifle is going to help, because the enemy will end up having more men and rifles and being able to replace them easily. -
SingaporeTyrannosaur,
Nobody is arguing that 3G is a load of worthless bull, but it's limitation on a sustain war. While all your points are mainly correct, mine is also valid.
Look at the IDF incursion in the Lebanese border, there are much more advance armed than we are.. but when it come right down to grunt action.. it is mainly still the man and rifles, supported by armour and air power, and of course his radio. Do you see them hugging their laptop and palm top in a gun fire ??
Those 3G gadgets are useful, but are more useful on special ops, FAC, recon and company style operations... which are usually short missions and away from actual combat... until batteries runs out that is.. -
If u ask me...I would recommend that we have SMART weapons that enable us to have IFF capability.Thus,it will lessen the possibility of friendly fire losses