M240 GPMG
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Was wondering why doesn't the SAF upgrade the GMPGs in service to be fitted with the plastic stock which saves weight and is a hell lot lighter then the current wooden one?
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Because it costs $$$, and you know where saf gets $$$ from? Yes, the taxpayers of PP and HG.
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It could also be license agreement. Our license is to build FN MAG in its original form with wooden furniture. I don't know if a mid-life refit like replacing the butt with a different one requires new license?
I often wondered the same about our M-16 then. I kept wondering why we weren't replacing the triangular handguard with the new ribbed ones like those on the M-16A2 series (onwards).
It could just be a dollar and cents issue... -
When its about mindef, its always about $$$.
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With regards to the M16 handguard, it was probably always their intention to replace it with a newer rifle, hence not needing any upgrades.
Looking at the GPMG, they might have the same intention to replace it with a newer MG, most likely one designed and manufactured by Chartered or ST. -
You're probably spot on. With the (relative) success of the lightweight Ultimax and CIS .50 HMG, they're probably already working on a much-needed lightweight 7.62 GPMG as replacement for the FN MAG.Originally posted by pwnz0r:With regards to the M16 handguard, it was probably always their intention to replace it with a newer rifle, hence not needing any upgrades.
Looking at the GPMG, they might have the same intention to replace it with a newer MG, most likely one designed and manufactured by Chartered or ST. -
Now that we are talking about replacement, let me proposed a candidate. It will take quite some time,money and considerable effort to come out with a brand new GPMG so a licenced production of a current model will be a good idea. Further more spares will be more easily avaliable since we can produced them and can be obtained from other countries as well since its already being used by some SEA countries.
Here is a comparism with the FN MAG which we are currently using.
HK 21e
Caliber 7,62mm NATO
Weigth 9.3 kg on bipod
Length 1140 mm
Length of barrel 550 mm
Feeding box magazine 20 or 30 rounds,
drum 80 rounds or belt 50 or 100 rounds
Rate of fire 800 rounds/min
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg18-e.htm
FN MAG
Caliber: 7,62x51mm NATO
Weight: 11 - 13 kg on bipod (depending on version), ~21 kg on tripod
Length: 1260 mm
Barrel length: 545 mm
Feed: belt
Rate of fire: selectable, 650-750 and 950-1000 rounds per minute
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg06-e.htm
It is easy to note that the HK21e is shorter,lighter and have the versatility of being box,drum and belt fed. One possible problem may be that there is no option for changing of barrel. But i suspect this can be done in a way similar to that of the MG3 but this is also a problem as its much more tedious.
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I think license-produce is no longer an option Singapore will consider when it comes to small arms. Singapore is out to become the best arsenal in Asia and will definitely look at something that is independently produced that can be exported without paying too much fees to someone like H&K.
Why not a lightweight 7.62mm GPMG with the same combat proven constant recoil mechanism as on the Ultimax?
PS, there is a canvas bag for the belt available for the M240. The reason the FN MAG still preferred over all other GPMG is that it is still the most accurate and reliable of all GPMGs. -
Originally posted by moca:
Who said we have a licence from FN?
[b]I think license-produce is no longer an option Singapore ... [b]
Remember reading somewhere that we never got such a licence. -
where's your max. effective range?Originally posted by tankee1981:Now that we are talking about replacement, let me proposed a candidate. It will take quite some time,money and considerable effort to come out with a brand new GPMG so a licenced production of a current model will be a good idea. Further more spares will be more easily avaliable since we can produced them and can be obtained from other countries as well since its already being used by some SEA countries.
Here is a comparism with the FN MAG which we are currently using.
HK 21e
Caliber 7,62mm NATO
Weigth 9.3 kg on bipod
Length 1140 mm
Length of barrel 550 mm
Feeding box magazine 20 or 30 rounds,
drum 80 rounds or belt 50 or 100 rounds
Rate of fire 800 rounds/min
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg18-e.htm
FN MAG
Caliber: 7,62x51mm NATO
Weight: 11 - 13 kg on bipod (depending on version), ~21 kg on tripod
Length: 1260 mm
Barrel length: 545 mm
Feed: belt
Rate of fire: selectable, 650-750 and 950-1000 rounds per minute
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg06-e.htm
It is easy to note that the HK21e is shorter,lighter and have the versatility of being box,drum and belt fed. One possible problem may be that there is no option for changing of barrel. But i suspect this can be done in a way similar to that of the MG3 but this is also a problem as its much more tedious. 
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Those are the info avaliable from the link which i have provided. For additional info you may wish to do a google search.
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first pic doesn't show a carry handle as well?
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No meh?Originally posted by baer:Who said we have a licence from FN?
Remember reading somewhere that we never got such a licence.
I remember reading that we produce our own FN MAG. No license how can? Pirate copy ah? -
Never seen a scope mounted on a GPMG before. At least one that wasn't for night vision.
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Many M249 and M240 have rails and scopes mounted. Seems the US mount scopes on everything.Originally posted by insouciant:Never seen a scope mounted on a GPMG before. At least one that wasn't for night vision. -
they still aren't very accurate at long ranges thoOriginally posted by moca:Many M249 and M240 have rails and scopes mounted. Seems the US mount scopes on everything. -
Without going into too much, I can say certain minute specs are different. I believe we have an agreement to produce our variant.We do not produce the M240B, nor the FN MAG anymore.Originally posted by moca:No meh?
I remember reading that we produce our own FN MAG. No license how can? Pirate copy ah?
Our production version is closer to the UK's L7A1 GPMG, with barrel variant of the M240G used by the USMC. The M240B(US Army) has a heatguard as opposed to none on the M240G. -
I think the weight issue isn't as important as having low recoil. If we want to make a name for ourselves, we shud try to specialise in an area... perhaps if we can come up with a whole series of low recoil weapons?
A gimpy thats low recoiled is helpful in terms of user's comfort when shooting. Dun have to fight the recoil so much and can focus on aiming. -
The members of the MG team attached to my (reservist) platoon can only just barely manage the GPMG between the three of them. Only the NCO, a tall atheletic Sgt, could manage the weapon when the platoon was assaulting the FIBUA village. So instead of being the GPMG NCO, during assault he became the gunner.
If you ask me, the FN MAG in infantry use must be replaced, along with the 84mm, the PRC-77 radioset etc... All these equipment are way too heavy for Asians especially conscripts and reservists of SAF. -
i think the 84mm stands the highest chance to be replacedOriginally posted by moca:The members of the MG team attached to my (reservist) platoon can only just barely manage the GPMG between the three of them. Only the NCO, a tall atheletic Sgt, could manage the weapon when the platoon was assaulting the FIBUA village. So instead of being the GPMG NCO, during assault he became the gunner.
If you ask me, the FN MAG in infantry use must be replaced, along with the 84mm, the PRC-77 radioset etc... All these equipment are way too heavy for Asians especially conscripts and reservists of SAF. -
The 84mm is a great weapon that the US had also adopted, if I'm not wrong. And there is a newer, lighter version of this great recoiless rifle.
But even for platoon support this weapon is a little too clumsy especially for us Asians. Maybe still OK as a company support weapon.
When you're at live firing, try not to be near the 84mm guys. That beast is fxxking LOUD and the ground shakes when it is being fired.
Some of the worst military jobs are in the Army. And some of the worst Army jobs include Combat Engineers, Pioneer, 81mm mortar and the 84mm RR.
Every time I feel like shxt doing rifleman's job I remember the look on my friend's face when I bumped into his unit at a training area (I think in SAFTI).
He had a cute little miniature "golf club" and was a member of a Pioneer platoon.
Their job involve getting down and crawling and poking the ground for landmines with that golf club. Now imagine doing this at SAFTI, on hard-packed clay ground, with no trees and the sun raising temperatures to above 35 degrees.
I'll never forget the "WHY ME?" look on my friend's face. Those of you stll haven't go NS better study hard to avoid this fate. For all the 3G sophistication, this vocation is apparently still open in SAF. And there's still all them little golf clubs there waiting for you.
There is no job less glamourous or more demeaning that crawling the ground poking for land mines. Even being a GD man (people considered dangerous around firearms and useful only for area cleaning and manual labour) would be preferrable. -
hai ya, the issue is how the weapon is utilise and not the specification of the weapon systems.Originally posted by moca:The members of the MG team attached to my (reservist) platoon can only just barely manage the GPMG between the three of them. Only the NCO, a tall atheletic Sgt, could manage the weapon when the platoon was assaulting the FIBUA village. So instead of being the GPMG NCO, during assault he became the gunner.
If you ask me, the FN MAG in infantry use must be replaced, along with the 84mm, the PRC-77 radioset etc... All these equipment are way too heavy for Asians especially conscripts and reservists of SAF.
Assault objective with MG
siong !!
But i do agreed with you on the lightening of load for our soliders. Notice that nows a day, the load is getting heavier, especially with all the 3G stuff. Especially the PRC-77, a useless piece of equipment.....
Anyone compared a load out of locals and overseas army. -
Well, by assault I don't mean the MG team clearing rooms with the GPMG. But as the platoon moved forward the MG had to "relocate" a few times to provide fire support for different sections. But still very siong.Originally posted by justcooler:hai ya, the issue is how the weapon is utilise and not the specification of the weapon systems.
Assault objective with MG siong !!
But i do agreed with you on the lightening of load for our soliders. Notice that nows a day, the load is getting heavier, especially with all the 3G stuff. Especially the PRC-77, a useless piece of equipment.....
Anyone compared a load out of locals and overseas army.
After FIBUA objective captured we moved on to capture FOFO objective - all in the same night.
By morning, we could hardly move, knees all jelly from all that walking, running and jumping in and out of windows and trenches. The MG gunner sgt fell asleep in between firing. KNN, then the observers or something.. those officers there to grade your unit's performance - make us redo the FOFO. But later gave us top marks. We got Best Unit.
edit:
Best Unit of our division. ahem...