Do singapore need fighter planes like Harrier?
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since when nw dogfighting?Originally posted by alwaysdisturbed:so dats called VIFFing...
i tink the reaction time is too long?
dis tech is incorporated in the jsf rite? cuttin dwn the heat signature...if i'm nt wrong...
all play long range ...1st hit 1st kill 
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long range?Originally posted by duotiga83:since when nw dogfighting? all play long range ...1st hit 1st kill
get tomcats la...wif their aim 54 phoenix... -
Singapore might be using F35 in future.Originally posted by Orcishwarrior:apparently singapore is evaluating the possible future JSF acquistion and btw if singapore need a vectical take off fighter.
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i doubt the RSAF will get a VTOL plane. firstly they just blew alot of their budget on the new F-15SG. 2ndly, they have no expertise in this kind of planes. need to train alot of people to handle them before they can even think of doing it.
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Using VTOL plane can land and take off without a runway. This is vital during critical time when runway is heavily damage or being destroyed. With VTOL plane it can even land on RSN frigates for refuel, rearm, repair or for further support role. With this it need not necessary need to take off from aircraft carrier and can support the air at sea with the requirement of air superiority.Originally posted by beavan:i doubt the RSAF will get a VTOL plane. firstly they just blew alot of their budget on the new F-15SG. 2ndly, they have no expertise in this kind of planes. need to train alot of people to handle them before they can even think of doing it. -
I personally do not think that having a VTOL aircraft is vital.
Honestly speaking, if one runway is busted. The base would be pretty much gone too. The runway would be th least of the concern since it can be somewhat easily repaired by just dumping concrete into it, and leveling it.
Its Base infrastructures that would be hard to replace.
2ndly, if one runways is temporarily out of commission, can always divert to alternate. If all our runways are destroyed, we are screwed anyway, cos that would me a lot of infrastructure damage to bases won't it? So what if you have VTOL aircraft but have no capability to support operations? -
Why use frigate might as well use harmless looking cvililian ships can hide e aircraft below deck it also overcome e problem of lack of range if u operating near or in enemy space
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[quote]Originally posted by grandeur:
[b]Singapore might be using F35 in future.
They can start buidling facilities for such plane and wait for US to sell it to Singapore as a second hand plane. -
Originally posted by T.Ryousuke:
second hand?
[quote]Originally posted by grandeur:
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[b]Singapore might be using F35 in future.
They can start buidling facilities for such plane and wait for US to sell it to Singapore as a second hand plane.[/b] -
Bro,the F-35 is not even operational yet! By the time they are sold to us 2nd hand it could be as long as 20 years down the road maybe even more!
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Actually, it is Vertical/Short Take-Off Landing.
V/STOL in acronymn.
So it is true what someone mention that when fully loaded the Harrier need a ramp to jump off. Otherrwise, wit a lighter combat load, the Harrier is more than capable of lifting off vertically.
What many people often forget about the Harrier is that it was a British-designed plane and the US only adopted it years after the Brits had been using it. Initially, the Americans had no need for such an aircraft as they had all these huge carriers with long flight decks. The Russians had also been using a V/STOL on their small Minsk carriers for a long time. -
Russian V/STOL Yak-38 "Forger". Unsuccessful.
Its successor is the Yak-141, which is V/STOL AND supersonic. As I understand, the Harrier is not supersonic.
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Possibilities of RSAF buying Russian made fighter planes which is very slim. The designs and the reliabilities seem inferior to those made in US. Not to forget most fighter plane arms in Singapore are for US fighters plane type which make more likely that RSAF will continue to purchase it planes from US.
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I Dun think US will sell it to any country for the next 10-20 yrs. I read before somewhere they going to start using it this year or next. I Dun think Singapore will buy a new one which costs US$XXM and is not proven yet. Also they need years to train their men too.Originally posted by tankee1981:Bro,the F-35 is not even operational yet! By the time they are sold to us 2nd hand it could be as long as 20 years down the road maybe even more! -
Actually the VSTOL technology of the Russians are superior to that of the US. So much so that even designers for the VSTOL F-35B consulted the engineers working on the Yak-141. Reason being that the Soviets come out with their own version of the VSTOL aircraft, the Yak-38 Forger but the US got their Harriers from the British. They also have been working on the supersonic VSTOL Yak-141 while the rest of the west are still using the subsonic Harriers. The Yak-141 is only prevented from turning operational due to funding. Therefore it will be an unfair assumpstion that all Russian weapon systems are inferior to their western counterparts.
After the show in Farnborough, Yakovlev design bureau worked together with Lockheed on Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) programme. As a result, LockheedÂ’s final JSF proposal resembles... the Yak-141M
http://www.bearcraft-online.com/museum/museum.htm?mid=89 -
Just putting it here for reference. Didn't say we should buy or not.Originally posted by grandeur:Possibilities of RSAF buying Russian made fighter planes which is very slim. The designs and the reliabilities seem inferior to those made in US. Not to forget most fighter plane arms in Singapore are for US fighters plane type which make more likely that RSAF will continue to purchase it planes from US. -
the previous aircrafts were designed to last 10 to 20 yrs which in fact lasted for roughly 20-30 yrs...Originally posted by tankee1981:Bro,the F-35 is not even operational yet! By the time they are sold to us 2nd hand it could be as long as 20 years down the road maybe even more!
the f35, if successful will be the biggest changeover. so i doubt all these money spent is for a plane dat last 20 or even 30 yrs... -
F-15SG is long range liao..with AMRAAMOriginally posted by alwaysdisturbed:long range?
get tomcats la...wif their aim 54 phoenix... -
for 1 ....no a/c is suited to be store in a frigate...the closes you can get is amphibious(sp) ship.....Frigate Helo is mean to be ASW roleOriginally posted by spartan6:Why use frigate might as well use harmless looking cvililian ships can hide e aircraft below deck it also overcome e problem of lack of range if u operating near or in enemy space -
he is implying that X-35/ F-35 is using Yak-141 Freestyle type of engine which USA "copied" from it....Originally posted by grandeur:Possibilities of RSAF buying Russian made fighter planes which is very slim. The designs and the reliabilities seem inferior to those made in US. Not to forget most fighter plane arms in Singapore are for US fighters plane type which make more likely that RSAF will continue to purchase it planes from US. -
oh ya...sry i left dat out...heheOriginally posted by duotiga83:F-15SG is long range liao..with AMRAAM -
Interesting to see a F-15 against a JSF in a dogfight, maybe as what the movie "Sheath" had demonstrated a 360 degree upward turing to get to the back of the enemy who is initially behind it's tail within sec. Wonder how many F15 needed to gun down a JSF?
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that is because in "Stealth" i assume that stealth plane got Trust-vectoring capabilities....thus able to do that tight turn .......Originally posted by T.Ryousuke:Interesting to see a F-15 against a JSF in a dogfight, maybe as what the movie "Sheath" had demonstrated a 360 degree upward turing to get to the back of the enemy who is initially behind it's tail within sec. Wonder how many F15 needed to gun down a JSF? -
Trust-vectoring capabilities sound interesting.Originally posted by duotiga83:that is because in "Stealth" i assume that stealth plane got Trust-vectoring capabilities....thus able to do that tight turn ....... -
Thrust vectoring is the ability of an aircraft or other vehicle to direct the thrust from its main engine(s) in a direction other than parallel to the vehicle's longitudinal axis. The technique was originally envisaged to provide upward vertical thrust as a means to give aircraft VTOL or STOL capability. Subsequently it was realised that the use of vectored thrust in combat situations enabled an aircraft to perform various maneuvers not available to conventional-engined planes.Originally posted by T.Ryousuke:Trust-vectoring capabilities sound interesting.
Most currently operational vectored thrust aircraft use turbofans with rotating nozzles or vanes to deflect the exhaust stream. This method can successfully deflect thrust through as much as 90 degrees, relative to the aircraft centreline. However, the engine must be sized for vertical lift, rather than normal flight, which results in a weight penalty. Afterburning (or Plenum Chamber Burning in the bypass stream) is difficult to incorporate and is not practical for Take-off/Landing, because the very hot exhaust leaves scorch marks on the ground. Without afterburning it is difficult to reach supersonic flight speeds.
Thrust vectoring is also used as a control mechanism for airships, particularly modern non-rigid airships. In this application, the majority of the load is typically supported by buoyancy and vectored thrust is used to control the motion of the aircraft. However designs have recently been proposed, particularly for Project WALRUS, where a significant portion of the weight of the aircraft is supported by vectored thrust. The first airship that used a control system based on pressurized air was the Forlanini's Omnia Dir in 1930s.
A fluidic nozzle diverts the thrust via fluid effects. Tests have shown that air forced into the exhaust stream can effect deflected thrust of up to 15 degrees. Currently in the experimental stage, fluidic nozzles are desirable for their lower weight, mechanical simplicity (no moving surfaces) and lower radar cross section and will likely be featured on many 6th generation fighter aircraft.
Tilt-rotor aircraft achieve thrust vectoring by rotation of turboprop engine nacelles. The mechanical complexities of this solution are quite troublesome, including the twisting of flexible internal components and driveshaft power transfer between engines.
Most current tilt-rotor designs feature 2 rotors in a side-by-side configuration. If such a craft is flown in a way where it enters a vortex ring state, one of the rotors will always enter slightly before the other, causing the aircraft to perform a rather drastic and unplanned roll.
The best known example of thrust vectoring in an engine is the Rolls-Royce Pegasus engine of the Hawker-Siddeley Harrier (with variants built by McDonnell Douglas). Contrary to popular belief, it was not applied against conventional Argentine fighters in the Falklands War. The technique has been used in various experimental and development planes, some with vectored thrust in directions other than upwards.
Currently the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is being developed. Although this aircraft incorporates a conventional afterburning turbofan (F135 or F136) which facilitates supersonic operation, the US Marine/RAF version also incorporates an (LP) shaft-driven, vertically mounted, remote fan, which is clutched-in during landing. The exhaust from this fan is deflected by a thrust vectoring nozzle, as is the main engine exhaust, to provide the appropriate combination of lift and propulsive thrust during transition.
Rockets or rocket-powered aircraft can also use thrust vectoring. Many missiles use this technique since at launch they are moving so slowly that to be able to steer effectively they would need massive fins, and they would impose a serious drag penalty once they are moving very fast. In addition, rockets often go very high up into the atmosphere or even beyond it, where aerodynamic surfaces are useless, so they need to use gas-dynamic steering. Examples of rockets and missiles which use thrust vectoring include the S-300P (SA-10) surface-to-air missile, AIM-132 ASRAAM air-to-air missile, UGM-27 Polaris nuclear ballistic missile and RT-23 (SS-24) ballistic missile.
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List of vectored thrust aircraft
* Boeing V-22 Osprey (Turboprop)
* General Dynamics F-16 MATV (Multi-Axis Thrust Vectoring)
* Hawker-Siddeley Harrier
* NASA Dryden F-15 ACTIVE
* Lockheed Martin F-22A Raptor
* Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter
* McDonnell Douglas/British Aerospace AV-8B Harrier II
* McDonnell Douglas F-15S/MTD
* McDonnell Douglas F-18 HARV (High Alpha Research Vehicle)
* McDonnell Douglas X-36
* Rockwell-MBB X-31
* Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-35 MFI
* Mikoyan Project 1.44
* Moller Skycar
* Chengdu J-10 (Super-10)
* Sukhoi Su-30 (MKI versions)
* Sukhoi Su-37
* Sukhoi Su-47
* X-44 MANTA
* Zeppelin NT - an example of a modern thrust vectoring airship
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrust_vectoring