Do singapore know how to build it's own aircraft carrier?
-
Normally you need to have escorts for such important ship to travel on sea. Singapore submarines and frigates can escort it.Originally posted by DriftingGuy:You need thousands of personnel to staff the floating airport... so if sinks there goes the RSN
-
I fully agree with that.Originally posted by moca:I think Singapore having an aircraft carrier is a completely workable idea and one that we should pursue.
Like tankee, when I say carrier I don't mean USS Enterprise, Nitmitz or US seventh fleet etc.
If we sell off our airforce and army we still own't be able to run a carrier task force.
During WW1 and WW2, battleships used to carry a seaplane for recce and also for torpedo attacks. Today, modern frigates continue to have that capability by carrying helicopters. But choppers are easy to kill.
So if you have a frigate just big enough to support a pair of Vertical Take Off / Landing aircrafts like the Harrier, then you've got yourself a frigate that also has a limited capability as an aircraft carrier. A pair of Harriers would be great for defending against air attacks and also to use for recce and air attack against other surface ships or ground targets. -
Might as well learn how to buid submarine 1st...it will sure strike fear in the minds of the enemy...stealthy, effective and it takes like few thousand men in a surface fleet to hunt down 33 men in a submarine.....u put one submarine in one sector is enuff to deter a aricraft carrier to venture down into that area of operation.
-
True, but one weapon system alone doesn't replace another weapon system. A frigate with a aircraft will have so much more capabilities and an extended range well beyond the reach of the ship's own radar and weapons.Originally posted by riken1974:Might as well learn how to buid submarine 1st...it will sure strike fear in the minds of the enemy...stealthy, effective and it takes like few thousand men in a surface fleet to hunt down 33 men in a submarine.....u put one submarine in one sector is enuff to deter a aricraft carrier to venture down into that area of operation.
A V/STOL aircraft from our frigates can attack land-based targets, for example.
Or better still, insteead of V/STOL we could eventually develop a UAV that's sophisticated and big enough not just for naval recce but also as a weapons platform or even a flying kamikaze bomb - kind of a poor man's cruise missile. -
i feel dis goin out of pt...Originally posted by grandeur:You have to go ask LKY and LHL why Singapore is not transparent in all these. When there is no transparency do you think there is accountability? -
i agree...however i dun c the necessity in hvin one....Originally posted by moca:I think Singapore having an aircraft carrier is a completely workable idea and one that we should pursue.
Like tankee, when I say carrier I don't mean USS Enterprise, Nitmitz or US seventh fleet etc.
If we sell off our airforce and army we still own't be able to run a carrier task force.
During WW1 and WW2, battleships used to carry a seaplane for recce and also for torpedo attacks. Today, modern frigates continue to have that capability by carrying helicopters. But choppers are easy to kill.
So if you have a frigate just big enough to support a pair of Vertical Take Off / Landing aircrafts like the Harrier, then you've got yourself a frigate that also has a limited capability as an aircraft carrier. A pair of Harriers would be great for defending against air attacks and also to use for recce and air attack against other surface ships or ground targets.
moreover we dun hv the experience...n shortage of manpower...there's no pt n nt feasible at the moment... -
True, at this point there is no need for such projection of power for a tiny defence force like us. But I understand we already have a Rapid Deployment Force (RDF) which is essentially power projection in nature - i.e. for deployment outside of Singapore, possibly outside of SE Asia.Originally posted by alwaysdisturbed:i agree...however i dun c the necessity in hvin one....
moreover we dun hv the experience...n shortage of manpower...there's no pt n nt feasible at the moment...
So if you have such a force, a naval air arm would be helpful to support the RDF's overseas operations. -
do we really need this? amphibious ship is possible but not for a CARRIEROriginally posted by moca:True, at this point there is no need for such projection of power for a tiny defence force like us. But I understand we already have a Rapid Deployment Force (RDF) which is essentially power projection in nature - i.e. for deployment outside of Singapore, possibly outside of SE Asia.
So if you have such a force, a naval air arm would be helpful to support the RDF's overseas operations. -
waste of $$$ when it can be spent upgrading / procuring better tanks to replace SM1s, purchasing more Vipers or more LongBows. ^^
Waste of manpower too...
it'll also cause some political problems with immediate neighbours. -
Look what happen to Thailand's aircraft carrier? its now a floating relic somewhere. A country bigger than singapore can't finance enough moolas for one aircraft carrier, what makes u think singapore can ?
*even if we have the ability to do so, we'll nev do it... *
Besides, why do we need such a large projection force? We're a defence force, not aggressors. We don't go around launching missiles / strike aircraft from carriers into other ppl's airspace and bombing them up. -
In fact, not to say Carriers, having subs can easily cause political tensions too. I think which is why RSN bought older models totally. In fact, if there was too be an ACC, it would have to be accompanied by a few frigates, anit-subs, and subs ... which means, if wehad a ACC ... The whole navy sails out... are u out of ur mind to ask if we want a ACC.
But i wonder, so it is not possible even to have invincible class models ???
So far, most posts seems to indirectly highlight the stupidity of the threadstarter. -
Please pardon me, i know many can't accept an aircraft carrier as the situation don't call for it at present. What i was trying to share here is that Singapore can have better air superiority with VTO planes and amphibious ship instead of aircraft carrier.Originally posted by gd4u:But i wonder, so it is not possible even to have invincible class models ???
So far, most posts seems to indirectly highlight the stupidity of the threadstarter.
-
Naval helicopter arm is a more realistic short term goal. Perhaps after we master that, we would develop light LHDs.Originally posted by moca:True, at this point there is no need for such projection of power for a tiny defence force like us. But I understand we already have a Rapid Deployment Force (RDF) which is essentially power projection in nature - i.e. for deployment outside of Singapore, possibly outside of SE Asia.
So if you have such a force, a naval air arm would be helpful to support the RDF's overseas operations.
If we have something close to the JNSDF's LHDs, it would be a good evolution already. -
how much air do we cover anyway you ask me? your 2nd sentence is contradicting to your original thread.......Originally posted by grandeur:Please pardon me, i know many can't accept an aircraft carrier as the situation don't call for it at present. What i was trying to share here is that Singapore can have better air superiority with VTO planes and amphibious ship instead of aircraft carrier.
btw amphibious ships/carrier a/c is not just doing air superiority roles ONLY.....do more research beofre you reply......
-
Like he said a light carrier for humanitarian aid and peace keeping.Originally posted by tankee1981:However in my opinion having a 'light carrier' with multi-role purposes such as humanitarian aid and peace-keeping will have a better chance. -
My original thread is Do singapore know how to build it's own aircraft carrier. This doesn't mean that we need it now, i mean when we need one do we know how to build it ourselves?Originally posted by grandeur:Please pardon me, i know many can't accept an aircraft carrier as the situation don't call for it at present. -
We might cover some other part of south east asia in future.Originally posted by duotiga83:how much air do we cover anyway you ask me?
I don't think it is contradicting.Originally posted by duotiga83:your 2nd sentence is contradicting to your original thread.......
Did i say amphibious ships/carrier a/c is just doing air superiority roles ONLY?Originally posted by duotiga83:btw amphibious ships/carrier a/c is not just doing air superiority roles ONLY.....do more research beofre you reply...... -
how much power do you want? can we handle that amount of power.....
-
Let me help you define the term.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
An aircraft carrier is a warship designed to deploy and recover aircraft—in effect acting as a sea-going airbase. Aircraft carriers thus allow a naval force to project air power great distances without having to depend on local bases for land-based aircraft. Modern navies that operate such ships treat aircraft carriers as the centerpiece of the fleet, a role previously played by the battleship. The change, part of the growth of air power as a significant part of warfare, took place during World War II. Unescorted carriers are considered vulnerable to attack by other ships, aircraft, submarines or missiles and therefore travel as part of a carrier battle group.
Aircraft carriers today
Aircraft carriers are generally the largest ships operated by navies; a Nimitz class carrier powered by two nuclear reactors and four steam turbines is 1092 ft (333 m) long and costs about $4.5 billion. The United States has the majority of aircraft carriers with a dozen in service, and its aircraft carriers are a cornerstone of American power projection capability.
Nine countries maintain aircraft carriers: United States, United Kingdom, France, Russia, Spain, Brazil, Italy, India and Thailand. In addition the People's Republic of China's People's Liberation Army Navy possesses the former Soviet aircraft carrier Varyag, but most naval analysts believe that they have no intention to operate it, but instead are using Varyag to learn about carrier operations for a future Chinese aircraft carrier. Canada, China, Japan, Pakistan, Australia, Chile and Singapore also operate helicopter-carrying vessels.
Aircraft carriers are generally accompanied by a number of other ships, to provide protection for the relatively unwieldy carrier, to carry supplies, and to provide additional offensive capabilities. This is often termed a battle group or carrier group, sometimes a carrier battle group.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_carrier -
Amphibious assault ships, usually shortened to amphibs, phibs or popularly known as gator freighters, denotes a range of classes of warship employed to land and support ground forces on enemy territory by an amphibious assault. The largest fleet of these types is operated by the United States Navy, including the Tarawa class dating back to the 1970s and the newer and larger Wasp class ships that debuted in 1989. While grossly resembling aircraft carriers, the role of an amphibious assault ship is fundamentally different: its aviation facilities have the primary role of hosting helicopters to support forces ashore rather than to support strike aircraft.
.....
Singapore (Republic of Singapore Navy)
* Endurance (2000)
* Resolution (2000)
* Persistence (2001)
* Endeavour (2001)
.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_assault_ship -
The Endurance class amphibious transport docks are the biggest class of ships in the RSN. They were designed and built locally by ST Marine to replace the old County class tank landing ships. Each ship is fitted with a well dock which can accommodate four landing craft, as well as a flight deck which can accommodate two medium lift helicopters [11]. The ships provide sea transportation for personnel and equipment for SAF's overseas training, as well as a training platform for RSN's midshipmen. The ships are also actively involved in humanitarian and disaster relief operations, notably in East Timor, the Persian Gulf and the recent tsunami-hit Indonesian province of Aceh. The four ships form the 191 Squadron of the RSN.
RSS Endurance during IMDEX 2001
© Jane's
RSS Endurance, RSS Persistence and RSS Endeavour in Meulaboh, Indonesia as part of 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami humanitarian relief efforts
© MINDEF
An amphibious transport dock (also called a landing platform dock or LPD) is an amphibious assault ship, a warship that embarks, transports, and lands elements of a landing force for expeditionary warfare missions. The United States Navy operates several of this type of ship; their helicopters, vertical take-off and landing aircraft, and air-cushion or conventional landing craft support of the United States Marine Corps's "vertical envelopment" assault doctrine. The ships are generally designed to transport troops into a war zone by sea, primarily using landing craft, although invariably they will also have a limited airborne capability.
Amphibious transport docks perform the mission of amphibious transports, amphibious cargo ships, and the older LPDs by incorporating both a flight deck and a well deck that can be ballasted and deballasted to support landing craft or amphibious vehicles.
In Service
[edit]
United States Navy
* San Antonio
* Austin
* Trenton
[edit]
Royal Navy
* Albion
[edit]
French Navy
* Foudre
* Ouragan
[edit]
Republic of Singapore Navy
* Endurance
[edit]
Spanish Navy
* Galicia (Same design as Dutch Rotterdam)
[edit]
Royal Netherlands Navy
* Rotterdam
[edit]
Decommissioned
[edit]
United States Navy
* Raleigh
[edit]
Royal Navy
* Fearless -
Hmm, i doubt so, currently, tech and hardware providers are DSTA, DSO and ST. Although ST has a marine engineering arm, i doubt it has the know-how of an ACC.Originally posted by grandeur:My original thread is Do singapore know how to build it's own aircraft carrier. This doesn't mean that we need it now, i mean when we need one do we know how to build it ourselves?
I think it was the same case for our frigates. Our defence-related companies didn't have the knowlegde and ability to build a frigate. So, in order to learn to built, ask DCN to built 1 and we followed ... -
Yes there are a few docks here that can handle aircraft carriers.Originally posted by Wolfwoof^^:I believe there's no dock to build it in SG.. -
they have about 10 CBGs Carrier Battle Groups.Originally posted by evq:Once saw it in the news on Ch5(on the Strait Times too), the running cost of an American carrier for a year can feed the entire China PLA for a year. including food, shelter & clothings.
Image the US has about 5 carriers or so. Can anyone fill me in on the numbers of carrier they have? -
Yep every single submarine and frigates to escort it ? That tied down your whole navy, you sail west, enemy hit east ! you have a white elephant that everyone is protecting when they should be more effective protecting shippings !Originally posted by grandeur:Normally you need to have escorts for such important ship to travel on sea. Singapore submarines and frigates can escort it.
Small carriers does not have the needed AEW, lesson learn from falklands - yes the harrier did a great job, but still consider fail as sheffield, ardent, antelope, sir galahand, sir tritam and alantic conveyor was lost still . More ships was hitted but lucky the bomb did not exploded if not a totally of 14 ships would be losted. And they have 2 carriers there with extra land harriers even.
Our frigates will be more useful in offensive and convoy protection than tied down to protect carrier. Rather then thinking of how to put 1 or 2 planes on ship like frigate, you would rather put vls storm shadow on the frigate instead. This will soon be available ,and hopefully our frigate will go for that, and we be able to hit land targets without even planes, which is a cheaper and better options.