US says 'NO' to Israeli request to fit their own avionics/we
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US says 'NO' to Israeli request to fit their own avionics/weapons to F-35
The US is refusing to allow Israel to fit its own avionics/weapons to F-35. Israel has integrated Python series AAMs and Popeye ASM to its fleet of F-15s and F-16s. Meanwhile Norway wants to use NSM and IRIS-T on the F-35 as well.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=104160
Growing Tension Between U.S. and Israel Over F-35 Jet Fighter
21:25 May 23, '06 / 25 Iyar 5766
The U.S. has indicated that it will not allow Israel to install its own advanced equipment on next generation fighter planes, the F-35, limiting IsraelÂ’s technological edge over its enemies.
The F-35, a next generation jet fighter, costing $276.5 billion in development and purchasing costs, is being built in the United States with input from a number of U.S. allies. Though Israel is playing only a small role thus far in developing the plane, it expects to ultimately purchase the jet for the IDF.
According to a report in MaÂ’ariv, the U.S. is refusing to allow Israel to develop its own guidance, firing, and missile systems for the new aircraft.
That policy will come as a heavy blow to Israel Aircraft Industries which has traditionally has put its ultra-advanced high-tech equipment in fighter jets purchased from the United States.
Many military strategists claim that IsraelÂ’s technological superiority over its enemies is derived mainly from the advantage it attains by grafting its own top secret equipment onto the American planes.
This is especially true in cases where the U.S. sells some of its most sensitive and sophisticated equipment to erstwhile allies, such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia, which are potential military adversaries of the Jewish State.
Israeli aeronautic military technology has gained worldwide renown for making U.S. fighter jets much more effective in combat. Souped up Israeli versions of American jets have a clear military advantage over their generic counterparts. U.S. refusal to allow Israel to use its unique technologies on the F-35 may put IsraelÂ’s strategic military advantage at risk.
An Israeli air force delegation that recently visited the U.S. and toured the Lockheed Martin plant where the plane is being developed failed to convince American officials of the importance of fitting Israeli weapons systems into the F-35.
As a result, Israel is considering withdrawing from the project altogether. Other countries involved in developing the plane, Britain, Turkey, and Norway, are also reconsidering their involvement due to widespread cost overruns that are running into tens of billions of dollars, and production delays.
A Lockheed spokesman said the company expects to test a prototype by 2008 and deliver the aircraft by 2011. The Pentagon is planning on manufacturing 2500 jets, primarily for the U.S. and British air force.
Published: 19:02 May 23, 2006
Last Update: 21:25 May 23, 2006 -
At this rate, all the partners of the F35 will start pulling out and the US either have to pay for the whole project or the program will get cancelled all together.
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seriously, ive no idea why they need to develop and spend such much money such weapons..
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good.Originally posted by insouciant:At this rate, all the partners of the F35 will start pulling out and the US either have to pay for the whole project or the program will get cancelled all together.
All the US wants is all the money to themselves...serve them right. -
can i put a new stereo in my car?
can i put a new steering wheel on my car?
can i put a chip in my new x-box?
can i flash the BIOS in the x-box?
can i change the avionics in this plane?
can i put a different missile on this plane? -
All Israel need to do is to invent an effective anti-stealth radar and buy avionicless J-10 and fit it with its own radar... Sure can piss Uncle Sam badly!!!
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the thing abt israeli air force is that most of their inventory come from uncle sam
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USA need its partners to provide money to fund the development of the F-35 and thus the current international cooperation. But they are unwilling to let them have the technology to manufacture certain parts or make modifications to them in order to protect their own defence industries, in short to allow the other participating countries to benefit from their involvement! Further more the program is now way over budget. I guess USA must have thought of these paticipating countries as fools!
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If the Israelis are gonna pull out of the F-35s, chances are, Singapore might not be too interested to acquire the aircraft either.
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Damn uncle Sam, e F-35 also not TAT impressive i say RSAF drop e JSF n go for e Russian 1:44 project
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mark my words, the F-35 will be the biggest flop in the history the US military industry ..... -
You mean 1.42? =)Originally posted by spartan6:Damn uncle Sam, e F-35 also not TAT impressive i say RSAF drop e JSF n go for e Russian 1:44 project
The 1.42 also not very impressive. Lets aim for Raptors. -
Originally posted by Shotgun
Raptors are much more expensive as compared to the Lightning II. But their price will drop as they are now allowed for foreign sales.
You mean 1.42? =)
The 1.42 also not very impressive. Lets aim for Raptors.
Raptors are designed primarily as an air
superiority fighter which is unlike that of the JSF as the JSF is designed to be multi-role all the way from the start. However, the Yankees are developing air to ground capability for the Raptors.
The Mig 1.42 sounds impressive as it is touted to have 'plasma stealth'! -
Seriously, i still have no idea what is plasma stealth? What the aircraft is coated with plasma?
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And Israel is known to be interested in the F-22 too. However I am still unsure whether the Americans will release in for export before 2010, or ever at all.Originally posted by tankee1981:Raptors are much more expensive as compared to the Lightning II. But their price will drop as they are now allowed for foreign sales.
Raptors are designed primarily as an air
superiority fighter which is unlike that of the JSF as the JSF is designed to be multi-role all the way from the start.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2006/06/israel-plans-to-buy-over-100-f35s/index.php
But my personal opinion is that it will eventually be available to important and trusted allies like Israel, Japan, South Korea or even Singapore. But if Singapore were to acquire even a reduced cost export version, given the still very high price tag it is unlikely that we will get more than 18 or 20. These will perhaps constitute a squadron mainly for air superiority and will serve alongside the F-35As, F-15SGs and remaining F-16C/Ds in any future force structure. -
Defeats radar due to a stream of highly charged electrons. It's very radical, placing it alongside electrochromatic panel technology which ensures invisibility to a certain extent.Originally posted by Shotgun:Seriously, i still have no idea what is plasma stealth? What the aircraft is coated with plasma? -
yup...heard that such russian planes can ionise the air surrounding the aircraft that will make the plane stealthy on radar
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Thanks, but i think Raptors r way 2 ex -
And way toooo dubious.. I mean just look at the way they had touted their latest weapons in the past.. from the F-4 to the Pac-3..Originally posted by spartan6: Thanks, but i think Raptors r way 2 ex
While the F-22 is perhaps the most advance in the world.. to say that it is invisible to radar is crap! It still have an RCS and only at the direct front would the have 0.016m2 profile.. but behold the F-15 pilots needs to look around their canopy to see.. not detect.. them... what a load of of BS.
Then there is the 10:1 ratio, then the 105:1 ratio engagement.... all propapaganda.. BS..
OK, so let's say Radar (Only US Radar) cannot detect.. but to engage enemies on BVR it needs to luminate them first.. Detection.. OK so what so great about stealth (Perceived) when the F-22 seems depended on their Radar and missle tech.. more !! The missle isn't new !! The radar isn't that new, having higher range perhaps.. but that also mean detection..
So what so great is the F-22 anyway.. It flies and looks great... have limited stealth... good radar... that's seemed all. Comes down to it ..it depends more on missle tech.
BTW, I believe the reason why the F-15 couldn't detect the F-22 (If it's true) at any range, then proves that there is a backdoor in the Weapons Source code. -
Yap yap
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Woah didn quite get this one. Can u explain why the F-15 should be able to detect an object with the radar cross section the size of a pigeon?Originally posted by MobyDog:And way toooo dubious.. I mean just look at the way they had touted their latest weapons in the past.. from the F-4 to the Pac-3..
While the F-22 is perhaps the most advance in the world.. to say that it is invisible to radar is crap! It still have an RCS and only at the direct front would the have 0.016m2 profile.. but behold the F-15 pilots needs to look around their canopy to see.. not detect.. them... what a load of of BS.
Then there is the 10:1 ratio, then the 105:1 ratio engagement.... all propapaganda.. BS..
OK, so let's say Radar (Only US Radar) cannot detect.. but to engage enemies on BVR it needs to luminate them first.. Detection.. OK so what so great about stealth (Perceived) when the F-22 seems depended on their Radar and missle tech.. more !! The missle isn't new !! The radar isn't that new, having higher range perhaps.. but that also mean detection..
So what so great is the F-22 anyway.. It flies and looks great... have limited stealth... good radar... that's seemed all. Comes down to it ..it depends more on missle tech.
BTW, I believe the reason why the F-15 couldn't detect the F-22 (If it's true) at any range, then proves that there is a backdoor in the Weapons Source code. -
this link has nothing to do with fighters, but it does offer an insight into the US-Israeli-Arab military relationship in recent years ....
seems like uncle sam is intent on ass-farking Israel .... whatever people may think .... interesting read ...
http://www.acpr.org.il/ins/articles/Fishbein1.htm -
Because that size of a pigeon (alledged) is only possible from the frontal head on angle.. that's all .. even with RAM all onther angle will have a much much higher RCS.Originally posted by Shotgun:Woah didn quite get this one. Can u explain why the F-15 should be able to detect an object with the radar cross section the size of a pigeon?
During the exercise, the F-22 is said to be be flying around the F-15s in circles..
and the pilot had to WVR by eye ball... and that famously usual tactic.. when in BVR once the F-22 detects the F4 to F15.. it was considered a kill.... that's right i'm not kidding.. the missile from the F-22 with it's powerful radar is considered a sure kill because of it's classified advance technology... no question asked why ? How come not entertained.. just like the F-4. But F-4 performce was questionable during Vietnam.. in fact, every engagement failed horriblly.
You still have woken up to US theatrics .... ahh. Every single type of weapons that comes out from US seemed to be or marketed as somewhat invincible.. after a while when it does not seemed so... another version or type take over... -
The F-22 while having an advance radar will most likely use an AWACS to fire it's missile thus making it mainly a launch platform in the AA role.I mean the US doesnt really expect the F22's to fight alone. And if they do, they have an advantage because if u are defending,chances are you will have you radar up and searching,but u still will have problems finding the f22,thus they can plot to hit you while u cant plot to hit them.Originally posted by MobyDog:Because that size of a pigeon (alledged) is only possible from the frontal head on angle.. that's all .. even with RAM all onther angle will have a much much higher RCS.
During the exercise, the F-22 is said to be be flying around the F-15s in circles.. and the pilot had to WVR by eye ball... and that famously usual tactic.. when in BVR once the F-22 detects the F4 to F15.. it was considered a kill.... that's right i'm not kidding.. the missile from the F-22 with it's powerful radar is considered a sure kill because of it's classified advance technology... no question asked why ? How come not entertained.. just like the F-4. But F-4 performce was questionable during Vietnam.. in fact, every engagement failed horriblly.
You still have woken up to US theatrics .... ahh. Every single type of weapons that comes out from US seemed to be or marketed as somewhat invincible.. after a while when it does not seemed so... another version or type take over...
But i think the F22 is over hyped hah.
