There is a bit of irony as some of the AMX-13 which we have are gotten second hand from the Indians and now these tanks are back in India!When did it happen and when AMX-13 was returned?
Reserve/Store MBTshttp://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Orbat.html
• T-55: 200
• PT-76: 100
• AMX-13: 90
• Vijayanta: 1000
Tankee? I think u r another Indian. We learn from India armed forces and they r very good in upgrade? R u nuts? Their Arjun failed terribly which they failed to admit due to pride! (Why they keep buying and license produce T-90 from Russia?) I have serious doubt abt their upgrading capabilities..Originally posted by tankee1981:I think we have alot to learn from the Indian army especially in their armour. They have combat experience as they have fought in 3 major wars with Pakistan and many smaller military conflicts. They also have the capability to upgrade and develop new MBTs something which we cannot do at the moment as least not officially. After all if they are not good we won't have sent our troops there for exercises. I have seen pics and black and white clips of the Indians with the AMX-13. There is a bit of irony as some of the AMX-13 which we have are gotten second hand from the Indians and now these tanks are back in India!
Originally posted by zenden9Well to be fair, quite a fair bit of our technology is acquired through cooperation with other countries. Examples are chemical and submarine warfare with Sweden, armour warfare with Israel and so on. Currently we do not have the capability to make or upgrade MBTs at least not officially. Yes, we are good, no doubt about that but there are always others out there in this world who are better in some aspects. Sometimes humility is a virtue no?
For info all our AMX-13 is upgraded by our ST and we have no problem and no need to learn from India.. Maybe anti-submarine warfare which in these areas which we can learn from them but armour warfare is a no,no and their technology is even worst!
So what? I come out with something but it cannot works! Does this show what? I am still capapable? What kind of logic u r using??? If no good,just admit it and don't be a clown ,telling people the lies and false hope(I don't mean u,Tankee) The A*J**..Originally posted by tankee1981:Their Arjun MBT is indeed met with many problems and delays but there is without a doubt and one cannot deny this fact that they did come out with Arjun and upgrades of MBT (Tank Ex). However, their true capabilities can only be assessed during war time or by internationally recognised agencies such as Janes during peace time. Things may look nice on paper but that doesn't mean they work, this is also a fact.
Note: News from US NEWS July 18, 2005http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-vetscor/1459593/posts
The Arjun MBT failed again during the off road and firing test. The India land army reported the bad news to the government. They found that the firing control system had serious malfunctions during the normal firing test. And the flexibility is worse than T-90. The department of defense of India said that the Arjun is a useless tank. One retired general said that more than 60% of Arjun's parts depend on imports. And before 2008, over 1500 active tanks will retire. The officer said that the Arjun will be a training tank only, not used in war, since it is too heavy to handle. (Arjun is 60 Tons, T-90 is 46.5 Tons) T-90 tanks will swiftly" kill" the Arjun, the main battle tank developed locally for 25 years.
Originally posted by tankee1981:Ok.this one i will agree with u but definitely no technology co-operate and learning from them.
We indeed sent personnel there for exercises and training which is another fact. I am sure the big brass in Mindef must have good reasons to ship the vehicles and fly our troops there as India is after all quite a distance away from SEA..
Originally posted by tankee1981Yes...
Well to be fair, quite a fair bit of our technology is acquired through cooperation with other countries. Examples are chemical and submarine warfare with Sweden, armour warfare from Israel and so on. Currently we do not have the capability to make or upgrade MBTs as least not officially. Yes, we are good, no doubt about that but there are always others out there in this world who are better in some aspects. Sometimes humility is a virtue no?
[/b]
heir Arjun failed terribly which they failed to admit due to pride! (Why they keep buying and license produce T-90 from Russia?) I have serious doubt abt their upgrading capabilities..The Arjun has failed the engine test in the Thar desert and later it was all solved and offered for test. The purchase of T-90 is because it is cheaper than the Arjun. The army will use T-90 for numerical superiority and the Arjun for qualitative superiority.
anti-submarine warfare which in these areas which we can learn from them but armour warfare is a no,no and their technology is even worst!Boasting will not help right.
Serious questioning! If u say numerical superiority,T-72M1 will be a better choice,more cheaper and can easily mass produce for India since India co-produce with Russia. Btw,T-90 is not a cheap. The last I heard of Arjun news is that,they want to switch the Arjun chasis to T-72 one to reduce weight and for easy of transportation..Other than that,I think the problem of Arjun still persists....Originally posted by arjun:The Arjun has failed the engine test in the Thar desert and later it was all solved and offered for test. The purchase of T-90 is because it is cheaper than the Arjun. The army will use T-90 for numerical superiority and the Arjun for qualitative superiority.
T-72M1 will be a better choice,more cheaper and can easily mass produce for India since India co-produce with Russia. Btw,T-90 is not a cheap.T-72M1 is already produced in India in great numbers. The first batches of T-90's will be assembled in India and then the production of it instead of the T-72 will start in India. The T-90 is not cheap as the T-72 but we require a tank that is much better than the T-72 but cheaper than Arjun. And this T-90 will be mass produced in India.
The last I heard of Arjun news is that,they want to switch the Arjun chasis to T-72 one to reduce weight and for easy of transportation..Other than that,I think the problem of Arjun still persists....That is the Tank-Ex the experimental tank. There is no such restriction as such. It depends on the IA. But the Arjun production has commenced at Avadi and the first batch of tanks have already rolled out. The army has ordered 120 tanks in the first batch. The third picture is from the roll out ceremony of Arjun in Avadi.
The last I heard of Arjun news is that,they want to switch the Arjun chasis to T-72 one to reduce weight and for easy of transportation..The problem with transportation was that the Arjun tank is somewhat bigger or belongs to the biggie league, so they did not fit exactly into the rail wagons. The sides protruded outside it. So they had build new rail transporters pecially for the Arjun to be transported. It solved that problem also.
Again,why needs three type of tank? T-72M1 for mass number? T-90 also for mass number? Arjun as the elite but in quality number? T-90 is only procure in 300 not as the mass as u stated but definitely more than the 126 Arjun. I'm wondering how T-90 is going to be in mass number?Originally posted by arjun:T-72M1 is already produced in India in great numbers. The first batches of T-90's will be assembled in India and then the production of it instead of the T-72 will start in India. The T-90 is not cheap as the T-72 but we require a tank that is much better than the T-72 but cheaper than Arjun. And this T-90 will be mass produced in India. ]
I like yr way of addressing the problem Build new rail trnasporter and problem solve?? Do u know u need to rebuild all the tunnel,restructure all railway station,build new facilites to handle the new wagon blah,blah,blah....and so many more! It is not as simple as u think,JUST BUILD A NEW TRANSPORT WAGON FOR ARJUN AND CAN SOLVE THE RAIL PROBLEM??? OMG!!! I think scrapping Arjun and buy more T-90 will be a cheaper and better solution than restructure the whole rail system of India just for the sake fo Arjun...Originally posted by arjun:The problem with transportation was that the Arjun tank is somewhat bigger or belongs to the biggie league, so they did not fit exactly into the rail wagons. The sides protruded outside it. So they had build new rail transporters pecially for the Arjun to be transported. It solved that problem also.
T-90 is only procure in 300 not as the mass as u stated but definitely more than the 126 Arjun. I'm wondering how T-90 is going to be in mass number?http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/T-90.html
I like yr way of addressing the problem Laughing Build new rail trnasporter and problem solve?? Do u know u need to rebuild all the tunnel,restructure all railway station,build new facilites to handle the new wagon blah,blah,blah....and so many more! It is not as simple as u think,JUST BUILD A NEW TRANSPORT WAGON FOR ARJUN AND CAN SOLVE THE RAIL PROBLEM??? OMG!!! I think scrapping Arjun and buy more T-90 will be a cheaper and better solution than restructure the whole rail system of India just for the sake fo Arjun...You are not transporting that big. The difference was for some feet. Do you think that all the tunnels are all made in such a manner that even one feet will make it un transportable. This transportation is from Avadi to the northern areas. Once in northern areas it did not require any transport to move to the border.
So u think the differents of the new transporter is in one feet only? Arjun is definitely build with intent to counter Chinese tank too! Which will be needed to move to the east of northern part! How is it going to reach the northern part with a unsuitable railway transporter? If as simple as building new transporter is going to solve Arjun transport problem. I don't see India armed forces kick a big issue on the rail part! Maybe u can enlighten me with a sourcè or it is all along an assumption by u that this problem can be easily solve by 1,2,3?Originally posted by arjun:You are not transporting that big. The difference was for some feet. Do you think that all the tunnels are all made in such a manner that even one feet will make it un transportable. This transportation is from Avadi to the northern areas. Once in northern areas it did not require any transport to move to the border.
http://www.pakistantimes.net/2004/08/26/top10.htm
India's Battle Tanks Arjun Operationally Useless
Pakistan Times Foreign Desk Report
NEW DELHI (India): India's defence production authorities handed over the first batch of first five "indigenously-developed" Arjun main battle tanks (MBTs) to the Indian army on August-8.
However, according to diplomatic sources, the Indian army chief has expressed skepticism about combat worthiness and operational mobility of the tank.
The Main Objection
The main objections raised by the army headquarters are that with its excessive weight and width, the Arjun tank has poor operational mobility.
It will not be possible to rapidly move it from one area of operation to another on the existing tank transporters on our rail network."
Secondly, the Arjun weighs 58.5 tonnes. As such, it outweighs the newly-inducted 46.5 tonnes T-90S Russian MBT by 12 tonnes. "Being heavier than the Russian substitute, it is too heavy to transport over most border bridges in India".
Arjun is not only less manoeuvrable, but also suffers from recurring engine and fire-control-systems problems.
Arjun is definitely build with intent to counter Chinese tank too!In the Himalayas tank war is not possible. Only infantry and artillery.
Maybe u can enlighten me with a sourcè or it is all along an assumption by u that this problem can be easily solve by 1,2,3?The defence minister himself has said this in 1995 or something that the problem is solved. Now don't be bothered how the tank will be transported. The IA will do it. They are in Rajasthan means they can be transported and already transported to the border.
Yes, InAF was forced to order abt 124 Arjun a few years back without meeting their requirement and only last year, 5 were delivered to InAF for trials again and still InAF complained abt all kind of problems from this batch.Why the Indian Airforce require these tanks. To make them fly.
The Arjun not only suffer all kind of problems like too heavy for certain terrain in northern India , bridges etc, too big for rail transport etc but all this are problems are well known way before the trials in 2005.Why you people brag that the Arjun is too heavy. It is not your or my problem to say that the Arjun is heavy so must not be fielded. The Arjun was build to counter the M1A1 which the Pakistanis were supposed to acquire. So it is meant to be heavy tank.
erm.....some tanks already have air conditioning or cooling units for the crew...Originally posted by arjun:Cool kit for soldiers in tanks
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060506/asp/frontpage/story_6189609.asp
Ranchi, May 5: IndiaÂ’s main battle tank will never be the same again.
A team of engineers, led by Suchitangshu Chatterjee, from the Ranchi-based Metallurgical and Engineering Consultants (Mecon) Ltd, has developed the technology to keep gunners cool in the confined space and for a long period.
The device, smaller than a tabletop computer, took eight years to develop. It was tested in desert conditions on IndiaÂ’s western front and in Chennai, where the main battle tank, Arjun, is built, says a communication from the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
The army has found it suitable for use.
An elated Chatterjee told The Telegraph that only the US had the technology so far to keep a tank in motion “cool”.
Conditions inside a tank, he said, are demanding and the temperature hovers between 45 and 50 degrees Celsius. Sitting in the cramped conditions and in such heat takes a toll on the toughest of soldiers. Many gunners have suffered anxiety syndrome, loss of memory and even temporary insanity.
An airconditioner cannot be fitted in the tank, Chatterjee, a deputy general manager in the company he joined in 1987, said. Any device to be designed by the team had to be small and access energy conveniently. The device ensures continuous air-flow, through tubes, to a special costume that keeps body temperature hovering between 18 and 22 degrees Celsius. This will now protect the gunners from fatigue.
The Mecon team has also developed a pair of battery-operated gloves and socks for soldiers camping at high altitudes and in severe cold. They are yet to undergo field tests, though.
But Chatterjee exuded confidence that they would function in Siachen, where the field tests are likely to be conducted.
the Leo 2 has a climate contorl system leh. So doess most of the western tanks.Originally posted by tankee1981:I am puzzled, since its that hot then why isn't an air conditioner unsuitable and a small device which regulate airflow suitable?
The SM1 is very cramped and hot especailly when engine is off. This is due to the hot and humid climate here in Singapore and the thick fire retardant coveralls which we wore. We are sweating very heavily! I really can't imagine being in a tank out in the desert where its very hot in the day and freezing at night!
Arjun, this is not personal and I have nothin against Indian-made military hardware and if you are proud of Indian-made military hardware and wish to educate all here of any new weaponry introduced, sure by all means please educate all here.Originally posted by arjun:Why you people brag that the Arjun is too heavy. It is not your or my problem to say that the Arjun is heavy so must not be fielded. The Arjun was build to counter the M1A1 which the Pakistanis were supposed to acquire. So it is meant to be heavy tank.
Telling the same again and again will not help. You are seeing the Arjun's rollling out from the factory after fixing all the problems and let's wait to see them in the next military exercise.