Uses for old retired aircraft.
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We have retired the Super Skyhawks not too long ago. We have still alot of A-4 airframes bought 2nd hand from the USN in the past. My question is what we can do with them? Of course, some have been sent to mueseums, local polytechnics for education purposes and as reserves but there are still quite a lot more. What can we do with them?
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I am thinking we can convert them into UCAV. After all they have been combat aircraft to begin with. We can use them as flying decoys (as UAV) during SEAD missions. These unmanned flying aircraft will fly infront of the manned strike aircraft to make the enemy on their radar to track it. Once the radar is on, the strike aircraft flying behind can fire of a HARM missile.
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Keep them in storeage from another 5yrs or so,Imagine e shock if any1 attack us n find 50+ A-4SU-1 inaddiaton 2 our 45 T/F-5S/R + another 12 in storeage n 60+ F-16CJ/DJ.
Or use them as losses replacement 
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Sell them as collectors items for museums and scrap the remaining.
Storing them would cost more than scrapping them. =/
Otherwise, can use them as target drones for live firing. Mount cameras as well as recording devices to observe missile impacts in order to study counter missile maneuvers. -
Gd idea
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expensive?Originally posted by Shotgun:Sell them as collectors items for museums and scrap the remaining.
Storing them would cost more than scrapping them. =/
Otherwise, can use them as target drones for live firing. Mount cameras as well as recording devices to observe missile impacts in order to study counter missile maneuvers. -
Gd idea, submit that to mindef and get your $$$ reward.Originally posted by Shotgun:Sell them as collectors items for museums and scrap the remaining.
Storing them would cost more than scrapping them. =/
Otherwise, can use them as target drones for live firing. Mount cameras as well as recording devices to observe missile impacts in order to study counter missile maneuvers. -
Its not a new idea, using old combat aircraft as target drones. The USAF did that a long time ago with a the old F-104, 101, and 102 spares.
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I also agree that using them as target drones is a useful way of disposing old aircraft. On the other hand, if RSAF have the capability to convert the planes can fly unmanned as target drones, i think we can use them as decoys as well. If our technology is good enough we can even consider converting these unmanned decoys and/or target drones into UCAV. After all they are previously combat aircraft.
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I think they will be kept in storage, and could be brought back to operational status in case of an emergency. If i'm not wrong, the fennecs, hueys and hunters are still kept in storage.
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Converting some of them into target drones isn't such a bad idea. The question is: what's the cost of doing doing that?
Anyway, I've heard that some of them have been converted into advanced jet trainers.... can anyone confirm?
And also, I'd like to see at least some of them kept in storage. Not a bad idea to have some old but functional Skyhawks operating in times of war in case if we do have a lot of Vipers shot down. -
Well, provided the current generation of Viper pilots know how to fly the A-4s. They are very different planes, both in design and operations envelope. Much of the work in the F-16s are done by computers and sophisticated avionics. Whereas the A-4s require more manual switch flipping. Its not safe to say that an F-16 pilot who bombs with the F-16s CCRP system can also bomb using the A-4s manual systems.
Hence, does storing them as reserve for war really help? RSAF pilots are getting younger. In fact, the RSAF intends to keep their pilots as young as possible. So all the lau chiau A-4 pilots would either be gone or in senior command positions alr.
In the UCAV role, I think we already have cheaper alternatives than using re-engineering the huge fleet of A-4s to become extraordinarily large and difficult to maintain UCAVs. Target drones will be the best solution. Mount ECM systems on the A-4 and test how effective our ECM systems really are against real missiles. AT LEAST, that would help save lives in real war. -
Businessman buys jet on eBay
(AP)
Updated: 2006-04-30 15:32
A Chinese businessman has bought a MiG-21f plane from a U.S. seller on the online auction Web site eBay for US$24,730 (euro19,726) and plans to use it to decorate an empty space at his offices, a newspaper reported Sunday.
The Beijing News newspaper identified the Chinese buyer as Zhang Cheng.
"I like to collect valuable items. I have the buying power and my company has an empty space where I can display the plane," the newspaper quoted Zhang as saying.
The eBay Web site for the transaction shows the plane is currently located in Lewiston, Idaho.
It said the fighter jet, last flown in 1995, has been inspected by a museum and found to be in excellent condition.
The seller was only identified by the username "inkgirle."
The Beijing News quoted Zhang as saying he learned from the seller's son by telephone that the fighter jet was retired by the Czech military.
It wasn't immediately clear if the fighter jet can be imported into China. Zhang said he is waiting for government authorities to get back to him, The Beijing News reported.
An operator at China's customs department said no one was available for comment.
"There is the precedent of a Chinese company buying a retired aircraft carrier, but I don't know if this jet plane is a banned item," Zhang reportedly said.
Zhang was apparently referring to the Soviet-built Minsk aircraft carrier that a Chinese company bought and converted into a floating theme park in the southern city of Shenzhen. The company went bankrupt and recently put the ship up for sale.
The report gave no indication where in China Zhang was located.
eBay's government relations department didn't immediately respond to a reporter's e-mail seeking comment.
Maybe we can sell our A-4s to collectors as well? Hahaha. If we can make them airworthy, we can rip out offensive systems, and leave basic avionics and sell it to private aircraft owners in the US. =D -
keep some for memoirs
the rest we should make them into artificial reefs , so we can promote sealife and domestic scuba diving -
I believe the SAF never really disposes of sizeable amounts of comparatively lethal equipment.
The A4 are upgraded in terms of weapons delivery and HUDs.Should not be too much of a legacy training prob if we need to get younger pilots to use them in ops .. -
Can take some and convert them as game arcade machines. Just to add that bit of realism to the aircraft games.
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ok. Lets look at this from the pilot's POV. Would you dare to fly an aircraft just taken out of deep storage for 10 years, and was already in service say 20+ years prior?
If a car was taken out from deep storage, and u drive it and it breaks down, u simply get out and walk. For an aircraft, u have to pull the handle. Which also risks injury to the pilot. -
Sell these hardware at a friendship price to Philippines. They seem to be desperately scouting around for used American fighter planes. A good long term investment to tame M land
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Hmm, i thought it was a fact that some A-4s were converted to trainers??
I like the idea of selling it to arcades, i will be the first one to hog the machine ... -
Actually a lot of countries do this... The Isrealis, Americans, etc, store up old aircraft just in case.... There are technologies available (and I don't mean hardware, but wraps, sealants, etc) that can keep a aircraft in halfway decent shape during preservation. Also, they service them before they fly again lah.Originally posted by Shotgun:ok. Lets look at this from the pilot's POV. Would you dare to fly an aircraft just taken out of deep storage for 10 years, and was already in service say 20+ years prior?
If a car was taken out from deep storage, and u drive it and it breaks down, u simply get out and walk. For an aircraft, u have to pull the handle. Which also risks injury to the pilot.
Heck, the Americans are happily selling their old F16A/B/ADFs to various countries as second hand planes. And some of them have been store for a few years. -
RSAF still places old airframes from the 60's, 70's like Strikemaster (or even older) at airbases. I can only imagine that they are there as decoys.
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Had been decided last year to scrap and meltdown down rather than to sell of in the market. These Super A4s are not going to follow the footstep of Strikemasters and Hunters which ended in somebody/hobbist backyard. This is to honour the services of these great machines that kept our skies safe
for 31 years against intruders (just joking only !!)
But the rational is that A4 were American made and need approval from uncle SAM for transfer to 3rd party. Keeping them in long termed preservation as war reserves is madness in economic sense. In time to come, you can go to National Iron and Steel and try to savage some perculiar parts of the A4 for keepsakes before condemned into the smelter. -
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Correction. no such thing as halfway decent shape during preservation. You need to service them daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, weekly engine runs and functional checks to make the systems work on ground condition. In fact they keep them as war reserves but they have to perform these tasks to keep them ever-ready in hard shelters/hangars. They need to be 100% airworthy. Perservative wrapping is just to prevent corrosion and only work in dry climatic condition but not in tropical conditions due high humidity. Say after 15 yrs in storage condition in desert with engine and main component removed, then corrosion is minimal. Inorder to make it in flying condition, it has to go thru a complete 'refurbishment' on the airframes, structure and control systems then buildup for completeness and flight tests. So there are two different conditions for preservation of aircraft in airworthiness status and carcass storage -
When the US store their aircraft in their boneyards, they are essentially gutted and non-serviceable.
And thats also cos they have a lot of space in the desert to throw stuff. Singapore.. err we wanna throw where?
Hmm, I SUPPOSE we could sell the F404 engines to Msia or Aussieland as spares for their hornets... IF it hasn't been severely modified to fit into the skyhawk. -
I beg to differ. Aircraft stored in their boneyards, not all are US.Originally posted by Shotgun:When the US store their aircraft in their boneyards, they are essentially gutted and non-serviceable.
And thats also cos they have a lot of space in the desert to throw stuff. Singapore.. err we wanna throw where?
Hmm, I SUPPOSE we could sell the F404 engines to Msia or Aussieland as spares for their hornets... IF it hasn't been severely modified to fit into the skyhawk.
Note some of our A4's came via their boneyard. IIRC, perishable eg batteries are removed. Hydraulic fluid drained and replaced with something else. Cockpit windows coated over from the outside. Pitot tubes sealed.