Malaysia Home-grown armoured vehicle
-
not too bad but unless the armor is strong all round, its going to be an easy target bcos its big.
easy kill indeed (for now) -
This is interesting. Possibility of Strykers for MAF in the future?Originally posted by bcoy:From - http://www.bernama.com/
April 26, 2006 15:28 PM
...The first agreement was signed with MOWAG GmbH of Switzerland for the supply of its "Piranha" family of armoured-wheeled vehicles (AWVs), to appoint DefTech its local industrial partner for promotional and marketing activities, locally integrate and ultimately produce the AWVs, transfer of technology and after-sales support in Malaysia. -
Well, let them put their money where their mouth is and contribute to the rebuilding of Iraq. It's hypocritical when most the Arab and Islamic states talk a lot and do not contribute a single soldier to the rebuilding effort in Afghanistan and Iraq..Originally posted by Blockhead:This is interesting. Possibility of Strykers for MAF in the future? -
This is interesting. Possibility of Strykers for MAF in the future?
Wait till it really comes out which might not be the case at all or 1-2 decades later...They usually sign a slew of such `agreements'(as far as agreements go in Malaysia) during such events all the time. What comes out of it is anybody`s guess though. Meanwhile, the media is very eager to latch on to almost anything...even a whimper. -
Is it just me?
Compared to others, this thread seems to have a lot newbies. -
http://www.sfu.ca/casr/mp1-casspir.htm
Check out the link above. They did a copy of the casspir, which does have a very good record for proving armour, against mines, and easy to maintenance in the field in south africa. Make a very impress name there.
Although it is a damn good vehicle, but if use in South East Asia, then it have its weakness. Because it provide very good protect in armour and against mines, the weight is very heavy. In africa, most of the grounds are open area and dry. But in south east asia , with just 4 wheels , it will get struck in mud most of the time, once it try any off-road. -
If I'm not wrong, Indonesia is also using the CASSPIR, thus maybe the weight issue is not as jialat as you think. If not why the TNI are using them?
-
To be fair, opposition to the Iraqi invasion was unanimous across the Muslim world. Of course, the argument that 'its already happened, so the best you can do is support the re-building to improve the lives of your fellow Muslims' is frequently used against them.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Well, let them put their money where their mouth is and contribute to the rebuilding of Iraq. It's hypocritical when most the Arab and Islamic states talk a lot and do not contribute a single soldier to the rebuilding effort in Afghanistan and Iraq..
But seriously, why would you choose to support something now, when you were against it from the very beginning? Any support now would be considered not so much in terms of helping ordinary Iraqis, but more in terms of helping the US.
If you look at the history of 'the Islamic states' (and I use the term loosely) there has always been more rhetoric and little real unity. It's just unfortunate for the poor Iraqis, but the sentiment remains that the US created the mess, and it should clean it up.
And fyi... states like Jordan are contributing to the rebuilding. Lots of Iraqi police are trained in Jordan now. -
weight is never a problem... neither is ground pressure... as long as you operate the vehicle within the predetermined limitation.Originally posted by equlus84:If I'm not wrong, Indonesia is also using the CASSPIR, thus maybe the weight issue is not as jialat as you think. If not why the TNI are using them?
it only becomes a problem when you need it to operate beyond the confines of its limitations.
the same goes for everything...
in short.. you can have a two wheel APC, as long as it never leaves the road... but you would not move your two wheeler 20 ton APC off road even if situation demands it. -
Looking at the size of the vehicle, I think it should weight abt 6~10tons, my guess is around 8tons( combat weight).
For troops transport on paved road it is ok.
For recon, I dun think so becos I believe it will have trouble in negotiating in muddy and swampy terrain, becos of it's high ground pressure.
For those who dunno, ground pressre is function of the total weight of the vehicle divide by the contact area of the vehicle to the ground.
Anyway, I dun think MAF really need this vehicle if rumours said that they are going to retire the 4x4 Condors becos with proper upgrade , the Condors could do the same job as this vehicle AV-4, whatever it is designed to be.
But you know MY, they most probably induct a lot of AV-4 into MAF just to show off and purposely retire the Condors eventhough it is not necessarily.
A proper ungrades of the Condors will still be cheaper than spending billions of RM on AV-4.
In fact for such vehicle , I think it should be around USD1mils per unit off the shelf, so MY could easily get a few hundreds of such vehicle off the shelf with the fews billions RM on R&D cost of AV-4!!!
Anyway, we will see!!!
-
they can call it watever they want... paint it in watever colour they choose... to me.. that thing is only good for transporting cash between banks rather then built to stand the heat of war.Originally posted by gary1910:Looking at the size of the vehicle, I think it should weight abt 6~10tons, my guess is around 8tons( combat weight).
For troops transport on paved road it is ok.
For recon, I dun think so becos I believe it will have trouble in negotiating in muddy and swampy terrain, becos of it's high ground pressure.
For those who dunno, ground pressre is function of the total weight of the vehicle divide by the contact area of the vehicle to the ground.
Anyway, I dun think MAF really need this vehicle if rumours said that they are going to retire the 4x4 Condors becos with proper upgrade , the Condors could do the same job as this vehicle AV-4, whatever it is designed to be.
But you know MY, they most probably induct a lot of AV-4 into MAF just to show off and purposely retire the Condors eventhough it is not necessarily.
A proper ungrades of the Condors will still be cheaper than spending billions of RM on AV-4.
In fact for such vehicle , I think it should be around USD1mils per unit off the shelf, so MY could easily get a few hundreds of such vehicle off the shelf with the fews billions RM on R&D cost of AV-4!!!
Anyway, we will see!!!
afterall.. i heard that tin can can only hold 5 men and with an armor of 12mm, that vehicle would have problem withstanding even the 5.56 and 7.62mm AP rounds...
furthermore.. look at how big the driver window panels are... looks like a safety feature for road driving then making any war sense... -
if the hummers can take it, so can this babyOriginally posted by tripwire:they can call it watever they want... paint it in watever colour they choose... to me.. that thing is only good for transporting cash between banks rather then built to stand the heat of war.
afterall.. i heard that tin can can only hold 5 men and with an armor of 12mm, that vehicle would have problem withstanding even the 5.56 and 7.62mm AP rounds...
furthermore.. look at how big the driver window panels are... looks like a safety feature for road driving then making any war sense... -
Check out Sabiex's Iguana 4x4 APC. Almost identical to Malaysia's vehicle.
http://www.sabiex.com/iguana/design.html
Left hand drive vs right hand drive, no water jets, slightly different internal layout.
-
Looks like they forgot to consult their Russian friends on how their BRDMs failed them in Chechnya.Originally posted by tripwire:they can call it watever they want... paint it in watever colour they choose... to me.. that thing is only good for transporting cash between banks rather then built to stand the heat of war.
afterall.. i heard that tin can can only hold 5 men and with an armor of 12mm, that vehicle would have problem withstanding even the 5.56 and 7.62mm AP rounds...
furthermore.. look at how big the driver window panels are... looks like a safety feature for road driving then making any war sense...
The Russian BRDMs were rolling deathtraps in urban environments. Poorly armored, not very fast. Wheels that don't allow it to plough through barricades, whereas a tracked armored vehicles like the BMPs could still ram through if needed. -
this thread has shown tat singapore has many professionals regarding abt the defence policy of our malaysian counterparts....
-
Where got defense policy...? Just commenting on their new wheeled vehicle nia... People talk about their proton sagas too rite?
-
Yup, look almost exactly as the AV-4 except different hand drive.( Goto the site and view all angle of Iguana as compare with AV-4)Originally posted by bcoy:Check out Sabiex's Iguana 4x4 APC. Almost identical to Malaysia's vehicle.
http://www.sabiex.com/iguana/design.html
Left hand drive vs right hand drive, no water jets, slightly different internal layout.
If the MY's AV-4 is a copy or TOT from Sibiex, then where the hell one need billions of RM for R&D for AV-4?!?
So where the monies went to?!? -
To be fair, research and development for a capability on ones own requires time and effort which translates to increased cost. Many times, there are trials and errors which also increases cost. After all Malaysia did not have the capability to produced armoured vehicles previously so the ability to do so is something new to them.
They can get some other company to cooperate with them much like what Singapore did when we develop the Delta frigates. But they wish to do it alone, maybe because of national pride. Another way is to just buy them from overseas. There are many such armoured vehicles in the market now and simply just buying them cost much lesser.
My personal opinion is that there may be corruption as this have happened before with other government projects as well. And choosing to go alone may mean that all the money can go into the hands of local people. But of course we will never know the details.
-
Yea i guess you're right. And they might have inclucded the cost for tooling and manufacturing processes.Originally posted by tankee1981:To be fair, research and development for a capability on ones own requires time and effort which translates to increased cost. Many times, there are trials and errors which also increases cost. After all Malaysia did not have the capability to produced armoured vehicles previously so the ability to do so is something new to them.
They can get some other company to cooperate with them much like what Singapore did when we develop the Delta frigates. But they wish to do it alone, maybe because of national pride. Another way is to just buy them from overseas. There are many such armoured vehicles in the market now and simply just buying them cost much lesser.
My personal opinion is that there may be corruption as this have happened before with other government projects as well. And choosing to go alone may mean that all the money can go into the hands of local people. But of course we will never know the details.