Pakistan to buy 98 J-10 & F16 from China & US
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OK, very interesting, premium American & Chinese fighters will service side by side in one air force. And Chinese SD-10 and American AIM-120 AMRAAMs will both be adopted by Pakistani Air Force (PAF) .
And if Pakistan obtains J10 fighter, the USAF will be keen to have COPE Pakistan held with PAF.
Pakistan to shop for U.S. and Chinese warplanes
http://in.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-04-13T210439Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-244753-1.xml
ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan's cabinet has given its air force clearance to open negotiations to buy 36 Jian-10 fighter aircraft from China and 62 F-16s from the United States, defence officials said on Thursday.
The officials confirmed a report in the Business Recorder newspaper that gave a breakdown of the air force's shopping list.
It included 36 modified versions of China's Jian-10 aircraft, along with 26 F-16s of Type A and B, and 18 F-16s of the latest Block 50/52 C and D type models, with an option for 18 more.
The newspaper, quoting an official document, reported that in addition to the aircraft, the government gave approval for purchase of 300 Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles of SD-10 type and 500 BVRs from the United States, 18 targetting pods and 500 joint direct attack munitions.
After the October 8 earthquake, President Pervez Musharraf said he would postpone the purchase of F-16s -- built by Lockheed Martin Corp -- while the government assessed how it would meet the costs of reconstruction and rehabilitation in devastated parts of Pakistani Kashmir and North West Frontier Province.
The international community has since stumped up over $6 billion in aid and soft loans to help Pakistan recover from the disaster.
Though no official figures have been released, the cost of the F-16s alone is expected to be around $2.5 billion, as each plane costs around $40 million.
The costs for the Jian-10 and the BVR missiles are also estimated to run into billions of dollars.
The Jian-10 is described by aviation experts as a fourth generation multi-role fighter aircraft developed by China's Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation (CAC), which is also developing JF-17 Thunder aircraft in joint collaboration with Pakistan Aeronautical Complex at Kamra.
Pakistan's Chief of the Air Staff is expected to visit China in May, but any announcement on the Jian-10 deal could wait until a possible visit by President Musharraf, officials said. -
Originally posted by 38�Ž:
This is a very interesting piece of news. The SD-10 will (or already has) enter production in the 2005-2006 period. Details about it have been hazy but it is regarded by experts as utilizing a license built Italian Aspide missile combined with components from the Russian AA-12 'Adder' BVRAAM with an indigenious Chinese active radar seeker.
OK, very interesting, premium American & Chinese fighters will service side by side in one air force. And Chinese SD-10 and American AIM-120 AMRAAMs will both be adopted by Pakistani Air Force (PAF) .
And if Pakistan obtains J10 fighter, the USAF will be keen to have COPE Pakistan held with PAF.
[b]Pakistan to shop for U.S. and Chinese warplanes
http://in.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-04-13T210439Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-244753-1.xml
ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan's cabinet has given its air force clearance to open negotiations to buy 36 Jian-10 fighter aircraft from China and 62 F-16s from the United States, defence officials said on Thursday.
The newspaper, quoting an official document, reported that in addition to the aircraft, the government gave approval for purchase of 300 Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles of [color=orange]SD-10 type and 500 BVRs from the United States, 18 targetting pods and 500 joint direct attack munitions.
[/b]
Many however regard it as simply a Chinese version of the AA-12 with no major differences from the Russian weapon.
Interesting, since India already has the Adder in its inventory on its Su-30MKI strike fighters. Seems like Pakistan will soon have the best of both worlds in Adders and AMRAAMs, unless India decides to purchase the F/A-18E/F from the USA for its future fighter requirement, of which AMRAAMs will be included too. -
Hmmm......Wow block 52 should be the C/D types. Aren't US afraid these stuff might fall into the hands of China. It is rumored that the Chinese is veri keen on the F-16 designs and would like to use them as mass replacement for their aging J-7 fleet. But they ran into some problems when they tried to "Chiong" the design of the Russian AL-31F engines and the sales of the engines were dirupted.
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Originally posted by ^Delta^:
ItÂ’s very different from the appearance of the both AAM, to me, it's more like American AIM120
This is a very interesting piece of news. The SD-10 will (or already has) enter production in the 2005-2006 period. Details about it have been hazy but it is regarded by experts as utilizing a license built Italian Aspide missile combined with components from the Russian AA-12 'Adder' BVRAAM with an indigenious Chinese active radar seeker
Many however regard it as simply a Chinese version of the AA-12 with no major differences from the Russian weapon..
Chinese SD10
Russian R77(AA-12)
American AIM-120 -
Thanks for the pics... So the SD-10 really uses the Aspide airframe, with new fins so it resembles an AMRAAM missile. But I bet its electronics are nowhere near the capabilities of the American weapon.Originally posted by 38�Ž:It’s very different from the appearance of the both AAM, to me, it's more like American AIM120 -
Again, u r not correct, the Aspide is a derivate of American AIM-7 “Sparrow” , the Italy exported some Aspide to China in later 1980s, then the Chinese developed the PL11 BVR AAM based on Aspide, here’s the photo of PL11:Originally posted by ^Delta^:Thanks for the pics... So the SD-10 really uses the Aspide airframe, with new fins so it resembles an AMRAAM missile. But I bet its electronics are nowhere near the capabilities of the American weapon.
Well, If I were the decision maker of the Fighter purchasing, I would have cut the number of my procurement, That is, if the AIM-120 is far more superior to SD-10, why I bother to buy an additional stock of the totally new plane—the J10? Because I could just procure more F16s—brand new or 2nd hand, considering Pakistani air Force already has the existing logistics to support the F16s. However, by procuring the J10, the PAF will add a lot of jobs, say ground facilities, training, maintenance etc. so, the buyer’s judgment won’t put the rating of SD-10 too low if compared to AIM-120. Otherwise, they won’t buy it at 1st place. -
ha ha..Originally posted by 38�Ž:Again, u r not correct, the Aspide is a derivate of American AIM-7 “Sparrow” , the Italy exported some Aspide to China in later 1980s, then the Chinese developed the PL11 BVR AAM based on Aspide, here’s the photo of PL11:
Well, If I were the decision maker of the Fighter purchasing, I would have cut the number of my procurement, That is, if the AIM-120 is far more superior to SD-10, why I bother to buy an additional stock of the totally new plane—the J10? Because I could just procure more F16s—brand new or 2nd hand, considering Pakistani air Force already has the existing logistics to support the F16s. However, by procuring the J10, the PAF will add a lot of jobs, say ground facilities, training, maintenance etc. so, the buyer’s judgment won’t put the rating of SD-10 too low if compared to AIM-120. Otherwise, they won’t buy it at 1st place.
if u r decision maker. you will rem that US embargo the F16s that were meant for PAF.
As such, it make sense to diverse your figther procurement so that in case pakistan's ties with US sour, their figther force will not be left stranded.
remember pakistan is a muslim country, i can forsee potential fallout with the US in the future even though ties now are rosy. -
Not exactly, USAF is retiring F16s in large numbers, as a matter of factor, the 26 F16s A/B for PAF are from US stockpile, US no longer view the F16 as sensitive weapons but rather some goods on sale or to be scraped. The risk of US sanction is rather low.Originally posted by spencer99:ha ha..
if u r decision maker. you will rem that US embargo the F16s that were meant for PAF.
As such, it make sense to diverse your figther procurement so that in case pakistan's ties with US sour, their figther force will not be left stranded.
remember pakistan is a muslim country, i can forsee potential fallout with the US in the future even though ties now are rosy. -
the news procurement is rather political ones.....making both sdes happy.....Originally posted by 38�Ž:Not exactly, USAF is retiring F16s in large numbers, as a matter of factor, the 26 F16s A/B for PAF are from US stockpile, US no longer view the F16 as sensitive weapons but rather some goods on sale or to be scraped. The risk of US sanction is rather low. -
If im not wrong, the Aspide itself is a derivative of the AIM-7 sparrow. But I heard the PL11 itself have been upgraded by the Chinese... to wad measure, well, would rely on one being shot at u! Still. A counter shot with an ARH missile like the AMRAAM would spoil the PL11 launching platform's day immediately.
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SD-10 is the Active radar homing Middle range AAM, it's the export version of the PL12 AAM currently in PLAAF service.
PL11 is the Semi-Active Radar homing Middle range AAM, it's the Chinese version of the Aspide ( maybe some improvements or modifications).
Here's the website with some information on Chinese missiles:
Chinese Air Launched Missiles -
And the aspide itself is the italian license manufacture of the Sparrow. Hence the chinese PL11 essentially is a sparrow?
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Almost there~Originally posted by Shotgun:And the aspide itself is the italian license manufacture of the Sparrow. Hence the chinese PL11 essentially is a sparrow?
Pakistani Air Force actually imported export version of PL11 BVR AAM from China, the FD60 AAM to equip PAF's F16s
Chinese missile may be for Pakistan's F-16s
ROBERT HEWSON Editor Jane's Air-Launched Weapons
Bangkok
"China is about to bring a second beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air missile (AAM) to the export market. The new weapon, to be known as the FD-60, is already in service with the People's Liberation Army Air Force as the PL-11.
In China it equips the Shen- yang J-8II 'Finback' interceptor but, according to the manufacturer, the export version is intended for the F-16 - a clear signal that Pakistan could be the lead customer.
Development of the FD-60 (PL-11) began in 1987 and was completed in 2000, according to the China National Precision Machinery Import & Export Corporation (CPMIEC). The weapon is described as an air-launched version of the LY-60 surface-to-air missile. It uses semi-active radar homing.
The missile borrows heavily from Aspide technology supplied by Italy before an arms embargo was imposed on China following the Tiananmen Square massacre.
China also had access to early-model US-built AIM-7 Sparrow missiles acquired via Vietnam, from which the Aspide itself is derived. Since the late 1980s Chinese technicians have been developing a Sparrow-class missile.
"Until now most observers had assessed the PL-11/FD-60 programme as a largely unsuccessful effort that had been overtaken by the more advanced PL-12/SD-10 active-radar AAM, developed under the leadership of the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corp (CATIC). However, it now appears that work on the PL-11/FD-60 has continued, perhaps to provide a back-up capability in the event of problems with the PL-12/SD-10 but also because CPMIEC has identified an export market for the missile.
As the FD-60 is based largely on the Aspide/Sparrow design, integrating it with US-built aircraft should be relatively straightforward. Such a missile would be of great interest to existing customers of Chinese equipment, such as Pakistan and Iran, that have inventories of US fighters for which they cannot obtain advanced weapons - chiefly BVR missiles.