Israeli Women Conscripts
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check them out: Israeli Women Soldiers
man, some of them are really pretty.. and check out the picture on the top right and check out how much stuff she's lugging with her! -
Wah. So their weapon is their hubby then? (as oppose the local context where the weapon is the wife) 
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seems more like a photographer site leh..Originally posted by the Bear:check them out: Israeli Women Soldiers
man, some of them are really pretty.. and check out the picture on the top right and check out how much stuff she's lugging with her! -
I think the standard of training for them is not that high as compared to the Israeli men. So maybe we could have our ladies do the same? Not too much, just 3 months of BMT will do, lots of benefits to Singapore and to them as well. NS clearly changed my life for the better in some ways, maybe we should let the girls have a chance too.
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hmmm well at least their "husbands" will be more able to satisfy their needs then the "wives"Originally posted by octega: Wah. So their weapon is their hubby then? (as oppose the local context where the weapon is the wife) -
the IDF is a professional organization, not a wayang organization ....
not much mickey mouse about marchings and parades and all that ... if you watch an israeli army parade, you'll never guess they are such a fearsome fighting force ... they'd look like a band of marching boy scouts ..... look at some of these pics too ... slochy bearings, sloppy uniforms .... appearance is not everything eh ....
Obviously this is something the SAF didn't learn from the israelis ..... -
The pic, just a lighter side of itOriginally posted by Fatum:the IDF is a professional organization, not a wayang organization ....
not much mickey mouse about marchings and parades and all that ... if you watch an israeli army parade, you'll never guess they are such a fearsome fighting force ... they'd look like a band of marching boy scouts ..... look at some of these pics too ... slochy bearings, sloppy uniforms .... appearance is not everything eh ....
Obviously this is something the SAF didn't learn from the israelis .....
But SG here, what we need is real ppl who can lead -
Their emphasis is more on combat training than some stupid parades where we still follow the stupid old british tradition ....another one I like is that they have a common mess instead of the specialist mess and officer mess system....that y they fight better as a team....Originally posted by Fatum:the IDF is a professional organization, not a wayang organization ....
not much mickey mouse about marchings and parades and all that ... if you watch an israeli army parade, you'll never guess they are such a fearsome fighting force ... they'd look like a band of marching boy scouts ..... look at some of these pics too ... slochy bearings, sloppy uniforms .... appearance is not everything eh ....
Obviously this is something the SAF didn't learn from the israelis ..... -
If there is no parade what will u watch on National dayOriginally posted by riken1974:Their emphasis is more on combat training than some stupid parades where we still follow the stupid old british tradition ....another one I like is that they have a common mess instead of the specialist mess and officer mess system....that y they fight better as a team.... -
their uniform look more comfortable ours.
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In the 60s.. There are the best defence in the world. Imagine being overun by many arab troops in the end they still win.
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Look like their SOP is to always have the weapon by their side.
One lady who has her rifle slung on her shoulder look like just come back from the bathroom.
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oww...makes cleaning the rifle real difficult..
unless it's new weaps and not prostitute weapons with the protective paint worn off already -
the IDF is a professional organization, not a wayang organization ....
I agree, instead of wasting time on parades the SAF should concentrate on teaching things related to combat,fitness, team building activities and tactics.
not much mickey mouse about marchings and parades and all that ... if you watch an israeli army parade, you'll never guess they are such a fearsome fighting force ... they'd look like a band of marching boy scouts ..... look at some of these pics too ... slochy bearings, sloppy uniforms .... appearance is not everything eh ....
However this applies to all uniform groups who somehow feel compelled that parades are essential part of their functioning.
What purpose does a parade serve in a fighting unit?
When the enemy comes we ask them to watch as we march past them?
The common crap about parades being used to instill regimental discipline and pride in the unit, is crap.
The only thing parades do is create sycncronized swimming teams. -
FYI, there is no fancful national day parade in Israel, to them that day they have survived another year of being exterminated.Originally posted by NewAge:If there is no parade what will u watch on National day -
I wouldn't want to carry my rifle where ever i go. Can't do somersault with them.
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Originally posted by M©+square:I wouldn't want to carry my rifle where ever i go. Can't do somersault with them.
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hmm.. we seem to have the same slinging practice as them. althought they sling the rifle to front sight post.
we made special eyelet for our sling..
what's the proper name of the eyelet? ORDed too long... forgot the name. -
lol,any idea how dumb you sound?Originally posted by NewAge:If there is no parade what will u watch on National day -
Marching is not just a tradition.Originally posted by plo30360:I agree, instead of wasting time on parades the SAF should concentrate on teaching things related to combat,fitness, team building activities and tactics.
However this applies to all uniform groups who somehow feel compelled that parades are essential part of their functioning.
What purpose does a parade serve in a fighting unit?
When the enemy comes we ask them to watch as we march past them?
The common crap about parades being used to instill regimental discipline and pride in the unit, is crap.
The only thing parades do is create sycncronized swimming teams.
It teaches you discipline in that you are able to move with the rest of your platoon as a cohesive unit. If you have drilled with a platoon before, you'll know this is more difficult than it sounds.
While parade square movements does not look anything like combat movements, it teaches men to follow orders instantly. When a command is shouted during a drill, you respond immediately. In the field, when a silent hand signal is given by the commander, everyone stops and take cover. Isn't this like drilling on the square?
Another use for marching is when men are dead tired during long route march. The platoon will start to straggle and the slow ones will start to fall behind. A commander is able to get everyone to fall in order and move in formation again. A formation gives strength to the weaker members of the group - like migrating birds fly in formation. You can't do that if soldiers don't know how to march.
And really, if soldiers do not know how to march, how are they different from mob?
While there are a lot of smart people there are also a lot of low IQ folks or "kwailan" ppl in the army. And for these people, learning how to instanly obey an order starts in the parade square.
People running armies all over the world are not stupid. Marching has been practiced by armies for centuries and they will continue to do so. Don't knock something cos you don't understand it. -
Marching gained popularity during the imperial days, where armies used to face of each other like hay dummies,e.g The Patriot
Marching is not just a tradition.
There are many other ways to build discipline.
It teaches you discipline in that you are able to move with the rest of your platoon as a cohesive unit. If you have drilled with a platoon before, you'll know this is more difficult than it sounds.
IFC signals are not similar to parade commands!!! That is the reson why they are classified in a category of their own.
While parade square movements does not look anything like combat movements, it teaches men to follow orders instantly. When a command is shouted during a drill, you respond immediately. In the field, when a silent hand signal is given by the commander, everyone stops and take cover. Isn't this like drilling on the square?
The point about the psyhcological effect of the route marching example you have given is vaild, however do understand I'm refering to ceremonial marching being useless.
Another use for marching is when men are dead tired during long route march. The platoon will start to straggle and the slow ones will start to fall behind. A commander is able to get everyone to fall in order and move in formation again. A formation gives strength to the weaker members of the group - like migrating birds fly in formation. You can't do that if soldiers don't know how to march.
The Israeli army would be considered well trained, well equiped, well supported yet they view ceremonial marching as unimportant.
And really, if soldiers do not know how to march, how are they different from mob?
Again there are other ways to teach people to take orders. The time spent in the parade square could be spent construtively elsewhere.
While there are a lot of smart people there are also a lot of low IQ folks or "kwailan" ppl in the army. And for these people, learning how to instanly obey an order starts in the parade square.
They may not be stupid but they have the old school mentality that grand useless ceremonial parades are somehow suppose to instill regimental discipline.
People running armies all over the world are not stupid. Marching has been practiced by armies for centuries and they will continue to do so. Don't knock something cos you don't understand it.
And people like you my friend are awestruck by such superfical things that don't matter in combat. -
Israel's defence requirement is completely different from Singapore's. They in a completely hostile zone, unlike us having the SAF as pure deterrance.
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Marching gained popularity during the imperial days, where armies used to face of each other like hay dummies,e.g The Patriot
Actually Armies have been marching since the 1st mobs beacme a proper fighting force.
Back in those days, the point is the hit the enemy with the most number of soldiers at 1 particular place with the most force.(think greek phalanx,Assyrian horsemen and infantry)The only way to achieve this was to make the whole ling march in step and smash into the enemy at the same time.
Thus pushing on the enemy the force of 1000 soldiers at the same time rather then having 1000 hit over 5 secs at different points. It also help when taking route marches because back then and even now they had to fight in formation or they would be useless. Square for fighting off cavalery or line for fighting of infantry. Even whilst marching these could be achieved much easier.
Anyway,most pardes now of days are for show. As a show of power or strength of the nation. After all,nothing boosts morale more then the citizens watching 10,000 marching in step with tanks and what have you not.
However learning to march in step and all that is used during route march as you've said so yourself and that in my opinion starts in the parade ground.
I'm not enlistning till a few weeks from now so i cant comment on how much the SAF marches[/code] -
Ceremonial marching?Originally posted by plo30360:They may not be stupid but they have the old school mentality that grand useless ceremonial parades are somehow suppose to instill regimental discipline.
And people like you my friend are awestruck by such superfical things that don't matter in combat.
My friend, did we serve in thhe same army? Since when did SAF make every one do ceremonial marching? We were taught only the most basic stuff, and we really didn't spend all that much time in the parade sqaure. There was nearly no marching after BMT except for the occasional ceremony.
You are talking about all marching is bad.
I am saying some marching is good. There's a saying: "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater". You don't always have to go the extreme and abolish something when you can moderate excesses. -
I never said armies before the imperial age did not march, I stated that marching gained popularity in that age because of the showy effect and facing your enemies honorably.
Actually Armies have been marching since the 1st mobs beacme a proper fighting force.
Back in those days, the point is the hit the enemy with the most number of soldiers at 1 particular place with the most force.(think greek phalanx,Assyrian horsemen and infantry)The only way to achieve this was to make the whole ling march in step and smash into the enemy at the same time.
Thus pushing on the enemy the force of 1000 soldiers at the same time rather then having 1000 hit over 5 secs at different points. It also help when taking route marches because back then and even now they had to fight in formation or they would be useless. Square for fighting off cavalery or line for fighting of infantry. Even whilst marching these could be achieved much easier.
You are wholly right about the effectiveness of the kind of marching being employed by the phalanx and such.(might I add roman legionares, spartans,persian immortals..)
However with the advent of gunpowder(and the rising popularity of guriella tactics), marching in most of its forms has become obsolete, imho.
Granted marching for show boosts morale but such morale boosting is only good for ndp and such.
Anyway,most pardes now of days are for show. As a show of power or strength of the nation. After all,nothing boosts morale more then the citizens watching 10,000 marching in step with tanks and what have you not.
See here's the thing parade ground implies a ceremonial and marching for show. You can teach moving in steps(marching
However learning to march in step and all that is used during route march as you've said so yourself and that in my opinion starts in the parade ground.
) while on the route march..
I sincerely wish you the best of luck,hope that you'll make many great friends and have lots of great memories.
I'm not enlistning till a few weeks from now so i cant comment on how much the SAF marches
Imho, as I've stated above any marching that is done on the parade square indicates ceremonial tendencies. The problem is the so called basic stuff has elements in it that are not practical anywhere else except on the parade square,(e.g saluting with arms,etc)
Ceremonial marching?
My friend, did we serve in thhe same army? Since when did SAF make every one do ceremonial marching? We were taught only the most basic stuff, and we really didn't spend all that much time in the parade sqaure. There was nearly no marching after BMT except for the occasional ceremony.
You are talking about all marching is bad.
I am saying some marching is good. There's a saying: "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater". You don't always have to go the extreme and abolish something when you can moderate excesses.
I recall agreeing with you that route marching is practical.
However I've been wondring about this, shouldn't all infantry be made mobile,e.g mech infantry(the japs did this in ww2 using bicyles and tanks as transports)?
Mraching is not bad, if stripped to its basic concept; "moving in step as one".
No need to add "lift your arms and legs to this many degrees, hormatting,etc)