Western mindset on taiwan/china situation
-
Well, I can say this is one point of view that most will subscribe to.Originally posted by sgdiehard:While we singaporean recognise that the China/Taiwan issue is a domestic issue within China, we are certain that any cross straits military conflict will destablize Asia and affect everybody in the region. If China, the PRC were to take the first step, unprovoked in starting a military conflict, be assured that nobody will be on your side, not singapore.
We are not under your Anti secession law, but if the wrong use of that law affects innocents outsiders, the law loses its morale authority. You may think that China has every right for a force reunification, in reality you will need to show the world that indeed all peaceful means are exhausted and failed. To do that PRC may need a little wit from Singaporean in time to come.
Don't be too quick in judging singaporean.
Mobydog, don't worry.Those are my personal viewpoints, so you don't have to be worried, as I don't think I will be in any position to influence cross-straits matters anytime soon
Regardless of American posturing, the world will not stand and watch a unprovoked Chinese invasion, and rest assured Singapore will not condone such an act either.In our case, we need a strong American engagement in our region for our own self-interest.
It's something that we cannot do without, and yet we also cannot lean too much on them.But at the micro level, any action, be it legal or illegal, that affects Singapore adversely in a war, is akin to hostilities, in our eyes.You'd think we cheer the PRC on?No.
If it's the Taiwanese, I don't think we would cheer them on either.Best case scenario would be a confederation with Taiwanese self-rule. -
Originally posted by LazerLordz:
I don't think US will like that at all.
Regardless of American posturing, the world will not stand and watch a unprovoked Chinese invasion, and rest assured Singapore will not condone such an act either.In our case, we need a strong American engagement in our region for our own self-interest.
It's something that we cannot do without, and yet we also cannot lean too much on them.But at the micro level, any action, be it legal or illegal, that affects Singapore adversely in a war, is akin to hostilities, in our eyes.You'd think we cheer the PRC on?No.
If it's the Taiwanese, I don't think we would cheer them on either.Best case scenario would be a confederation with Taiwanese self-rule.
What is your idea of "unprovoked" action anyway ?
Whether the world will stand for an unprovoked PLA invasion remains to be seen. (Should it happen) I suspect they may "Cow Bei Cow Bu", but face it, the world do respect power, money and aggression. Look at the US (Iraq) invasion, nearly everything about it is base on lies. But what did the world do ? Do you know that the US has 73 world intervention (regime changes and covert ops) for the past 50 yrs ?
Believe me US interest has no friends, when you stop supporting or no longer useful and all the ugly US facades appear. US has renegaded many puppets and allies alike. -
Well, better the lesser evil than a Communist world if the US had not done those apparently "tasteless" 73 regime changes that you speak of.We live in the real world, and that is currently, you and I, our lives have been due to whatever the US has influenced, killed or what-not in the world.Originally posted by MobyDog:I don't think US will like that at all.
What is your idea of "unprovoked" action anyway ?
Whether the world will stand for an unprovoked PLA invasion remains to be seen. (Should it happen) I suspect they may "Cow Bei Cow Bu", but face it, the world do respect power, money and aggression. Look at the US (Iraq) invasion, nearly everything about it is base on lies. But what did the world do ? Do you know that the US has 73 world intervention (regime changes and covert ops) for the past 50 yrs ?
Believe me US interest has no friends, when you stop supporting or no longer useful and all the ugly US facades appear. US has renegaded many puppets and allies alike.
Realpolitik.Right now, we are useful to the US.However, we spread our wings to secure alliances and friendships to counterweight any predominant power which may have the potential to swing us off-course, e.g with that idiot Bush in power at the moment.. things are not looking good.No one is denying that America is a pragmatic power, the very same as our tiny little island.No permanent friends, only permanent interests.
Still, we cannot afford to deal in theories and principles too much in global politics.Love it or hate it, we have to accept that the last 50 years under American supremacy is still better than the alternative.Would you rather have Communism triumph?
Granted, they have screwed around here and there, and you think we have not screwed with other nations.Look carefully beyond the surface, and you will see the web that Singapore has stretched out around the world.We are not as helpless as common impressions would have us believe.
"Unprovoked" Unilateral Chinese military action against a non-military action by Taiwan. This is my heartfelt stand.Why so?Believe it or not, Singapore is like Taiwan, held to the world by international law, the only difference being actualised independance versus de jure independance in a disputed status of negated sovereignty.Should China be allowed to retake Taiwan unilaterally, it will open up a can of worms in the international arena, and lead to a dangerous precedent of historical claims by larger nations over smaller, current autonomous/independant territories.
Even if Singapore is not under threat of this scenario, do we have the diplomatic gumption or ammunition to even support this course of Action?Logic will dictate we will oppose such an action when push comes to shove.The new UN regime is more interventionist, and there is a serious need for greater global cooperation against unilateral action against a democratically elected government of a territory without legitimate claim of self-defense.
Yeah sure, self-defense against a future rallying declaration of independance.In any case, before they determine their status of sovereignty, there's still that niggling matter of a armstice to be signed and civil war ceased.The amount of goodwill that PRC would inevitably get in the international arena should they renounce the unilateral use of force as a first response against peaceful Taiwanese independance, is worth more than the bloodshed that any war or pre-emptive occupation will surely bring.
Common sense and brotherhood through peace and choice should be allowed their day in the sun, not just force.
So, should we stomach another repeat of the Timorese annexation?I think not. -
1) Well, first of all, only about 65% of the intervention is about communism.
2) If International Law is concern, Taiwan cannot declare independence.. that itself is a provocation to China. Then again as I say They are still in Civil War.
3) Should China retake Taiwan unilaterally, situation as you describe is different from that around. Name another nation which has this situation.
4) Taiwan is not defenseless at all....The amount of goodwill that PRC would inevitably get in the international arena should they renounce the unilateral use of force as a first response against peaceful Taiwanese independance, is worth more than the bloodshed that any war or pre-emptive occupation will surely bring.
Initial goodwill to PRC will be as good as it last. I tell you, at the later stage, it would not change a thing (as cross-straits tension is concern) -
All I want to add is that if Taiwanese want to be taken seriously, why did they vote for Chen Sui Bian?
TWICE!!!
He looks like a Smurf, and sounds like a bumpkin. And has made some pretty stupid moves to solidify this opinion.
But sometimes, I think the Taiwanese deserves him. Many Taiwanese I met can be annoyingly a.n.a.l. Especially the men. The women are OK.
-
I absolutely agree with u when u said that most westerners have little idea about reality of the straits. Western media always love to cite Taiwan as a role model for China to follow but ever since Ah Bian came to power, everything is going downhill for Taiwan( I do mean everything). Taiwan's economy is shrinking and unemployment rate is soaring. As a result, crime rate is also skyrocketing. Read here:Originally posted by ray243:In most westerners mindset, they have hardly a single clue about what is really going on in the straits and what harm it will cause. Most military novels revolve around the invasion of taiwan and nothing is said about the negative effect( other than china loss) like the economy of east asia or USA itself.
They view taiwan indepedence as a good thing, as it would mean democracy can withstand against communism. Some view that almost all countries will support the idea, like NATO.
They hardly had a idea about the Pan-blue party of taiwan and most of them thought the whole of taiwan support indepedence. I hate it how they love to play the situation as a basic of their story.
I've heard a worst part, saying that taiwan should join USA as a state and hence given full protection by the US military.
Do you agree?
http://th.gio.gov.tw/show.cfm?news_id=8615
High unemployment rate also resulted in high suicide rate:
http://www.asianpacificpost.com/portal2/4028818208a0ac650108c0e0bbc5010f_Credit_card_slaves_turn_to_suicide_and_crime.do.html
As a result, more and more Taiwanese are losing confidence in the current administration and are migrating elsewhere. Mainland China, Canada, Australia and the USA are the favourite destinations for emigrating taiwanese. Here's an article about Taiwanese migrating to Shanghai:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A14284-2001Apr27?language=printer
The Taiwanese have more confidence in mainland china than their own country and would rather migrate there instead. -
2 years later, taiwan will have its presidential elections. Based on the fact that the Democratic Progressive Party(DPP) has made a mess out of Taiwan, I can safely say that the KMT will definitely win.
National and personal debts in Taiwan have soared at an alarming rate in recent years. In fact in the recent world economic forum Taiwan is said to have accumulated the second largest sum of national debts in the world just behind Bangladesh!
Whether or not KMT can repair all the damage caused by DPP remains to be seen. -
I absolutely agree with what u say. The truth is that the USA is responsible for more atrocities in this world than any other country. Here is a detailed website showcasing all the US interventions and altrocities for the past century:Originally posted by MobyDog:I don't think US will like that at all.
What is your idea of "unprovoked" action anyway ?
Whether the world will stand for an unprovoked PLA invasion remains to be seen. (Should it happen) I suspect they may "Cow Bei Cow Bu", but face it, the world do respect power, money and aggression. Look at the US (Iraq) invasion, nearly everything about it is base on lies. But what did the world do ? Do you know that the US has 73 world intervention (regime changes and covert ops) for the past 50 yrs ?
Believe me US interest has no friends, when you stop supporting or no longer useful and all the ugly US facades appear. US has renegaded many puppets and allies alike.
http://www.intellnet.org/resources/american_terrorism/ChronologyofTerror.html
The most disturbing about the United States is their media. They are constantly spinning lies about human rights violations in other countries.
We heard a lot from the western media about June 4 Tiananmen massacre. But the truth is totally different. Here's an interesting article about the June 4 incident:
http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=14621
Here's another interesting article about the Sino- Indian War:
http://in.rediff.com/news/2002/oct/24chin.htm
Here is another article about the motives behind western lies:
http://taiwansecurity.org/News/2005/JT-300505.htm
Let me make myself clear that I have nothing against America but to make up lies about other countries is downright childish.
Unfortunately nowadays even western governments like the USA is also exhibiting the same childish characteristics. If anyone wishes to listen, I am willing to explain.
