SAM replacment?
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Our I-HAWK is getting old liao any sugguestion on likely replacements eg.S-300, Aster-30 .........
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Hmmmm seem like this topic is so dead
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Going by politics, I would say the Patriot PAC-3, even though I personally prefer the Aster 30.
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Anydetail on e pac-3?
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Kinda odd that they retired the Bloodhounds without replacing it with a similar long range SAM.
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Ya
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yah I think is time to change, with so many new aircraft in the region is the umbrella coverage still relevant?
but the i-hawk range coverage is 40km, replacement must be of the same coverage or better. -
going by politic in the old days I agree but dun think PAC-3 they will give, look what happen to PAC-1 when the americans gave to the israeli's who secretly gave it to China and now China have the technology thanks to the israeli's.Originally posted by Delta 5:Going by politics, I would say the Patriot PAC-3, even though I personally prefer the Aster 30. -
Well I doubt S'pore is gonna sell it to anyone, let alone US "enemies".Originally posted by four-niner:going by politic in the old days I agree but dun think PAC-3 they will give, look what happen to PAC-1 when the americans gave to the israeli's who secretly gave it to China and now China have the technology thanks to the israeli's. -
yes thats true but I think because of what the israeli did, the american policy has changed already allies today can become enemies tomorrow and they are really fearful that their high technology may fall in to the hands of tomorrows enemies.Originally posted by sgf:Well I doubt S'pore is gonna sell it to anyone, let alone US "enemies".
Just like when taiwan wanted the advance aegis cruisers battleship, but the americans gave the older kidd class destroyers with part of the aegis capability instead. Maybe they were thinking "just in case if oneday taiwan reverts back to china" then china will inherit only the old stuff and not the full suite.
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How about the Russian S-300 and S-400? I think when used in Singapore will become strategic asset since their range is much bigger than that of the PAC-3 and the French Aster missiles. They are much cheaper and we no need to worry whether the missiles which we bought are down-graded or need to keep in US and send to us only in war. The following are some abstracts taken from the website ( Note: The source is a Russian website so may be a bit biased but come to think of it the US sites are also biased towards their own products right?)
The S-400 system is intended to engage current and future air threats such as tactical and strategic aircraft, Tomahawk cruise missiles and other type missiles, including precision-guided ones, as well as AWACS aircraft, at ranges of up to 400 km. It can also detect stealth aircraft and other targets at all altitudes of their combat employment and at maximum ranges
http://warfare.ru/?catid=264&linkid=1699
Comparism between SA-X-20 / S400 Triumph Long Range TABM/SAM
and MIM-104 Patriot
http://warfare.ru/?compare=true&linkid2=1699&linkid=2526&catid=264 -
Aster 30 has a longer range then S-300
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We don't seem very inclined towards Russian stuff be it for political reasons or otherwise. If not I'm pretty sure we'd have gotten the SU-35 instead of the F-15.Originally posted by tankee1981:How about the Russian S-300 and S-400? I think when used in Singapore will become strategic asset since their range is much bigger than that of the PAC-3 and the French Aster missiles. They are much cheaper and we no need to worry whether the missiles which we bought are down-graded or need to keep in US and send to us only in war. The following are some abstracts taken from the website ( Note: The source is a Russian website so may be a bit biased but come to think of it the US sites are also biased towards their own products right?)
http://warfare.ru/?catid=264&linkid=1699
Comparism between SA-X-20 / S400 Triumph Long Range TABM/SAM
and MIM-104 Patriot
http://warfare.ru/?compare=true&linkid2=1699&linkid=2526&catid=264 -
Well, our phobia towards Russian stuff seems to be waning.Originally posted by sgf:We don't seem very inclined towards Russian stuff be it for political reasons or otherwise. If not I'm pretty sure we'd have gotten the SU-35 instead of the F-15.
After all, we now have M113 Ultras with Igla SAMs. -
personally i'm rather inclined to the russian S-300/S-400 (SA-10) systems...they have rather good performance (on paper), is affordable, and there is no need for commonality with existing systems (asides from datalinks with other sensors) as it is a system that operates on its own.
furthermore, we have a little experience with russian SAMs...the 9K39 Igla M, also known as the SA-18 -
Looking at the I-hawk and its setup does not really inspire much confidence.
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Originally posted by spartan6
Aster 30 has a longer range then S-300
Actually Aster30's range is in excess of 100km but for the S-300 the maximum range can reach as much as 200km. The same launcher can fire different sort of missiles with different ranges as shown below (taken from the above website with the comparism). Thanks
Range: 48N6E from S-300PMU-1 - Approx. 150Km
48N6E2 from S-300PMU-2 - Approx. 200Km
9M96E from S-300PMU-3 Approx. 40Km
9M96E2 - Approx. 120Km
Specs of Aster 30 SAMPT/T
Mass 450 kg
Length 4.9 m
Diameter 0.18 m
Propulsion
solid propellant, two stage,
Terminal velocity
Mach 4.5
Manoeuvrability
> 50 g
Guidance
updata link and active radar seeker in final phase
Altitude of interception
20 km
Range
In excess of 100 km
http://www.mbda.net/site/FO/scripts/siteFO_contenu.php?lang=EN&noeu_id=88 -
Those who want to pay 1 million USD a shot, kindly go for PAC3
Me, poor taxpayer
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you know why there's PAC 2 and 3 ? ... cos PAC 1's so screwed up ....Originally posted by four-niner:going by politic in the old days I agree but dun think PAC-3 they will give, look what happen to PAC-1 when the americans gave to the israeli's who secretly gave it to China and now China have the technology thanks to the israeli's.
just about the only dependable friend the israelis have are the yanks .... you suppose any arms transfer would have taken place without a nod and a wink from uncle sam ? ....
remember during gulf war 1, a rogue scud shot killed a bunch of american quarter-masters ? ... was reading about software bugs inside the system ... it'd make your hair stand ... -
yes now with pac2 and pac3 we can look back compare apple and apple and said pac1 is a screwed up system, but then it was something that was completely new .. an anti-missile missile system which nobody had and it shot down according to american media 40 scuds in flight so it's pretty advance at that time.Originally posted by Fatum:you know why there's PAC 2 and 3 ? ... cos PAC 1's so screwed up ....
just about the only dependable friend the israelis have are the yanks .... you suppose any arms transfer would have taken place without a nod and a wink from uncle sam ? ....
remember during gulf war 1, a rogue scud shot killed a bunch of american quarter-masters ? ... was reading about software bugs inside the system ... it'd make your hair stand ...
I read from somewhere the americans gave israel after the first gulf war 2 launchers of pac1 out of good faith, the israeli sold out the americans by giving 1 of them to China, and today according to reports the chinese have a system called Aegis AN/SPY-1-style phased array radar system and vertically launched HQ-9 naval version long-range air defence missile system rumoured to be borne out from the pac1 and similar to the U.S. AN/SPY-1 Aegis system, now why would the americans want china to have such a technology when it knows that such a thing might endanger their armed forces in event of a future conflict(with china). -
I was thinking of the SPYDER air defense system with the Derby combo. I'm not sure if that is workable in terms of range tho.
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Akash Missile: (Sky Missile)
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/Akash.html -
I believe the Akash missile program has been terminated as the system did not meet the expectations of the Indian Army and was too costly. Instead, additional S-300PMU2 and S-300V systems will be procured from Russia which will be integrated with the Israeli-built Green Pine radar.Originally posted by arjun:Akash Missile: (Sky Missile)
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MISSILES/Akash.html -
Derby's range is 50km I believe. Can't compare to say Aster 30 in terms of range, but of course range isn't everything.Originally posted by Shotgun:I was thinking of the SPYDER air defense system with the Derby combo. I'm not sure if that is workable in terms of range tho. -
S-300/S-400 is the heavily rumoured replacement.
The Aster 30 is definitely being considered.
PACs are out.They do not come close to the operational capability or bug-free margin as the above two.