Does SÂ’pore need such downgraded F35? !
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UK MODÂ’s denouncement on Big SamÂ’s Pride & Prejudice:
LORD DRAYSON: JSF OPERATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY IS VITAL FOR UK DEFENCE INTERESTS -
Ya their tech r getting from bad 2 worse,we should start switching 2 european wpn liao
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Originally posted by Lance_han:if they're really going to downgrade the low observables technology, i say to hell with JSF and stick with the F15SGs
Originally posted by spartan6:Ya their tech r getting from bad 2 worse,we should start switching 2 european wpn liao
My sentiments exactly.Originally posted by duotiga83:unless USA is willing to released the project codings together with his allies.....JSF will never be move......and others will begin to find alternatives like typhoon/rafale/gripen etc
The F-35 JSF was never meant to be a top of the line fighter to begin with. It was meant as a lower cost supplement to the F/A-22 Raptor with an emphasis on ground attack, to replace the current AV-8Bs, A-10s, F-16s and F/A-18s. Its stealth capabilities are similarly reduced, with only frontal RCS being in the same class as the F/A-22.
Weapon payload is decidedly unimpressive as compared to the 4 types it is supposed to replace, with only 2 x 2000lb munitions and 4 x AAMs carried internally, even though underwing hardpoints can be added at an even greater expense to stealth.
The F-35 is more than sufficient for countering current 3rd Generation fighters but unlikely to be capable of countering future threats such as advanced variants of the Su-27/Su-35 Flanker, and certainly not the projected Su-47 or European solutions such as the Rafale F3 or Tranche 3 version of the Eurofighter Typhoon.
The information above applies to the full capability US version. For export versions, paying 45-60M USD for a multirole fighter which has downgraded stealth capability, comparatively short range, no supercruise and the need for full US support on software codes and spares does not seem such a good idea after all.
In the 2010-2015 timeframe when our F-5S/T fleet is being retired, the RSAF should open the replacement competiton to include the Rafale or Eurofighter Typhoon, both of which lost out to the F-15T in the 20 warplane tender. At least an additional squadron of F-15Ts should be bought too. The RSAF's edge would be greatly eroded if it goes for anything less.
Comments anyone?
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I say to heck with the JSF. Even if they do come out with the JSF in time for the F5s to be retired, the Yanks and the Tommies are going to get their hands on it first. It'll be years before we actually do get our hands on it.Originally posted by Delta 5:My sentiments exactly.
The F-35 JSF was never meant to be a top of the line fighter to begin with. It was meant as a lower cost supplement to the F/A-22 Raptor with an emphasis on ground attack, to replace the current AV-8Bs, A-10s, F-16s and F/A-18s. Its stealth capabilities are similarly reduced, with only frontal RCS being in the same class as the F/A-22.
Weapon payload is decidedly unimpressive as compared to the 4 types it is supposed to replace, with only 2 x 2000lb munitions and 4 x AAMs carried internally, even though underwing hardpoints can be added at an even greater expense to stealth.
The F-35 is more than sufficient for countering current 3rd Generation fighters but unlikely to be capable of countering future threats such as advanced variants of the Su-27/Su-35 Flanker, and certainly not the projected Su-47 or European solutions such as the Rafale F3 or Tranche 3 version of the Eurofighter Typhoon.
The information above applies to the full capability US version. For export versions, paying 45-60M USD for a multirole fighter which has downgraded stealth capability, comparatively short range, no supercruise and the need for full US support on software codes and spares does not seem such a good idea after all.
In the 2010-2015 timeframe when our F-5S/T fleet is being retired, the RSAF should open the replacement competiton to include the Rafale or Eurofighter Typhoon, both of which lost out to the F-15T in the 20 warplane tender. At least an additional squadron of F-15Ts should be bought too. The RSAF's edge would be greatly eroded if it goes for anything less.
Comments anyone?
And now with the news that whatever JSFs we get are going to have compromised specs, as well as the highly ludicrous situation of being unable to repair our own JSFs, I'd say we are better off without them.
I'd far rather that we buy more Strike Eagles or even the good old Vipers to replace the ageing F5s. Truth be told I'd love to see some Typhoons in the RSAF, but they're pretty expensive, and we may end up with compatibility issues between the Typhoons and our existing aircraft. -
There is not much compatibility issues for Typhoon rather than Rafale...Originally posted by fudgester:I say to heck with the JSF. Even if they do come out with the JSF in time for the F5s to be retired, the Yanks and the Tommies are going to get their hands on it first. It'll be years before we actually do get our hands on it.
And now with the news that whatever JSFs we get are going to have compromised specs, as well as the highly ludicrous situation of being unable to repair our own JSFs, I'd say we are better off without them.
I'd far rather that we buy more Strike Eagles or even the good old Vipers to replace the ageing F5s. Truth be told I'd love to see some Typhoons in the RSAF, but they're pretty expensive, and we may end up with compatibility issues between the Typhoons and our existing aircraft. -
Ya i was damn sad when we didnt chose e typhoon,but lucky we didnt chose e rafale
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I second that.In fact, the matured 2nd tranche of the Blk 60 Vipers should be monitored.After the UAE's deployment, it might be good for us to order a batch to slowly phase out the remaining A/Bs and the F-5s.Originally posted by fudgester:I say to heck with the JSF. Even if they do come out with the JSF in time for the F5s to be retired, the Yanks and the Tommies are going to get their hands on it first. It'll be years before we actually do get our hands on it.
And now with the news that whatever JSFs we get are going to have compromised specs, as well as the highly ludicrous situation of being unable to repair our own JSFs, I'd say we are better off without them.
I'd far rather that we buy more Strike Eagles or even the good old Vipers to replace the ageing F5s. Truth be told I'd love to see some Typhoons in the RSAF, but they're pretty expensive, and we may end up with compatibility issues between the Typhoons and our existing aircraft.
In fact, I'd like to see Rafales and more 15SGs. -
E rafale offered 2 us r F1 standard no fully devolped radar in fact it how 2 say an aircraft tat can fullfill all sort of role but excel in none .If they offer us F3 damn we will never take e f-15
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Repeating similar views of others:
Rafale is WAY harder to intergrate into our AF. Their weapons systems and payload are tuned to a "French" style. I.E. MICA, Stormshadow. But the convienence is that we can just convert the F-16 training ground into a Rafale One (i suppose).
Typhoon would be more suitable because they use sidewinders and the AIM-120s not to mention cheaper and actually slightly better mechanical performance. Not to mention that we continue to purchase US weaponry is a + point.
I believe that we put off the sale of both of these planes is that their system-upgrades are already announced to be released in the near future(3-5 yrs?) This means that we have not only more time to reevaluate these two planes but also get the latest upgrades to come along...rather than to pay twice (once now and later upgrades)
Obviously, the JSF is a looooong way from our acquisition. And as mentioned earlier it is indeed a 2nd tier craft. It's will be like a work horse I.E. F16. Numerous and expendable...but not as cheap! I would really prefer if we get the Typhoon fully upgraded as our Elite wing. And yes 20 F-15s are .....so little! Too little to take into account downtime, rotation, training. More more! Make the F 16s like our F5s. Push them down the level. -
I thought we've already given our remaining F-16A/Bs to Thailand?Originally posted by LazerLordz:I second that.In fact, the matured 2nd tranche of the Blk 60 Vipers should be monitored.After the UAE's deployment, it might be good for us to order a batch to slowly phase out the remaining A/Bs and the F-5s.
In fact, I'd like to see Rafales and more 15SGs. -
All of them? I didn't realise it was the entire fleet.Originally posted by fudgester:I thought we've already given our remaining F-16A/Bs to Thailand? -
I think that seems to be the case. As far as I can tell, whatever Vipers we have are all Block 52 F-16Cs or Ds.Originally posted by LazerLordz:All of them? I didn't realise it was the entire fleet.
Reference here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Singapore_Air_Force
To quote from the article:
The word 'remaining' suggests that whatever F16-A/Bs we gave to the RTAF were the only ones left.
'On November 18th, 2004 it was announced the RSAF will be donating its remaining 7 F-16A/B's (3 Alphas and 4 Bravos) to the Royal Thai Air Force.' -
Our viper include 44 blk52 F-16CJ/DJ n 20 BLK 52+ F-16DJ
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Actually the Rafale is already cleared to carry certain American weapons such as Sidewinder AAMs, Paveway LGBs and Mk 80 series of unguided bombs. However, we would have to pay for the integration costs for our newly acquired munitions such as JDAM and JSOW.
Nevertheless, the Rafale would still be inexpensive compared to the Eurofighter or F-35 even after all the add-ons.
The ideal fixed wing combat aircraft force level for the RSAF by 2015 would be as follows:
(2015 Force Level is my personal view, any differing views welcome)
Force Level 2005 (Today)
62 F-16C/D
52 F-5S/T/RF-5S
18 TA-4SU
Expected Force Level 2010
20 F-15T
62 F-16C/D
52 F-5S/T/RF-5S
*Proposed Force Level 2015
50 New Multirole Fighters (Rafale F3 / Eurofighter Typhoon / F-35A / Gripen)
40 F-15T
62 F-16C/D -
E airforce may operate only 2 combat aircraft type in e future 2 reduce cost.E plan may be only F-15SG n JSF. I have fiath ine F-15 but JSF hmmmmmm
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Emm, no quick delivery of JSF as confirmed by GAO, the JSF is anyhow under low volume production even the full evaluation wonÂ’t finish before 2013.
It says the DOD is scheduled to spend $US49 billion ($A66.44 billion) on 424 fighters before full testing of the stealth planes is complete in 2013.
full report:
Pentagon investing 'too much' in JSF -
F-16 is old but proven. IMO its a waste to discard it in favour of the F-35 esp a half past 6 watered down version.Originally posted by spartan6:E airforce may operate only 2 combat aircraft type in e future 2 reduce cost.E plan may be only F-15SG n JSF. I have fiath ine F-15 but JSF hmmmmmm -
Ya lo
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Originally posted by LazerLordz:The F-35 does not cost $15Billion per aircraft.That was the cost of the entire RAAF purchase.
Each F-22 costs $70m approx. the F-35 would cost around $25-30M per plane
Wow you're an ass. Do you know anything about buying aircrafts at all? $15Billion purchase programme has to include spares, training for techs etc. etc. as well. You don't just do a 15bil/100.Originally posted by 38�Ž:Oh, really that cheap?, the 15 Billion bucks are only enough for 100 RAAF JSF! a simple calculation will be :
15 billion / 100 = 150 Million USD/unit . Yes, u like to have a taste of it? 150 million USD for a monkey?
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To u, I even no need to mention A/C at allÂ…Originally posted by Uncle_MooMoo:Wow you're an ass. Do you know anything about buying aircrafts at all? $15Billion purchase programme has to include spares, training for techs etc. etc. as well. You don't just do a 15bil/100.
Do u know general purchasing hi-tech or high value machinery at all?
If ur company intends to buy a high tech/value machine, when the time u got ur quotation, which one is not included the spare part, delivery charge, training cost, accessories, etc, etc? So you r going to mention the cost to ur boss only with the cost for the machine itself or u going to tell him the overall cost of the machine, spare parts, accessories, train cost GST etc at one go? -
What makes you think that the US is going to allow us to launch AMRAAMs on Typhoon or Rafale? That integration is for NATO is only.Originally posted by sigal2k+:Repeating similar views of others:
Rafale is WAY harder to intergrate into our AF. Their weapons systems and payload are tuned to a "French" style. I.E. MICA, Stormshadow. But the convienence is that we can just convert the F-16 training ground into a Rafale One (i suppose).
Typhoon would be more suitable because they use sidewinders and the AIM-120s not to mention cheaper and actually slightly better mechanical performance. Not to mention that we continue to purchase US weaponry is a + point.
I believe that we put off the sale of both of these planes is that their system-upgrades are already announced to be released in the near future(3-5 yrs?) This means that we have not only more time to reevaluate these two planes but also get the latest upgrades to come along...rather than to pay twice (once now and later upgrades)
Obviously, the JSF is a looooong way from our acquisition. And as mentioned earlier it is indeed a 2nd tier craft. It's will be like a work horse I.E. F16. Numerous and expendable...but not as cheap! I would really prefer if we get the Typhoon fully upgraded as our Elite wing. And yes 20 F-15s are .....so little! Too little to take into account downtime, rotation, training. More more! Make the F 16s like our F5s. Push them down the level.
You are spot on though on JSF won't be in RSAF inventory for a really long time. So long make me wonder if it will ever turn up. -
That's why we have the Python series, rumoured Popeyes and Derbies for.
AMRAAM..not that magical these days. -
AMRAAM is easily outrun by modern aircraft
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Only if your Aircraft can fly over Mach 4 ...Originally posted by spartan6:AMRAAM is easily outrun by modern aircraft 
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Not exactly... It is possible to outrun the AMRAAM. But only if its fired at max range @ tail chase. Really have to burn and break the sound barrier asap. Ealier version of the AMRAAM is kinda short on legs.. ya.. so its possible.