Any one can ID the semi pistols in Straits Times today ?
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Hi people,
the Serangoon murder has been caught by the Malaysian police, and today on display in the papers were the 6 semi pistols siezed from the rooms. Could anyone ID the semi auto pistols ? Some seem foreign while i could spot a Colt Gov model.
Any other firearms experts who could shed light on the weapons siezed ? -
They look like pistols made by smaller or less well known factories.Originally posted by one-niner:Hi people,
the Serangoon murder has been caught by the Malaysian police, and today on display in the papers were the 6 semi pistols siezed from the rooms. Could anyone ID the semi auto pistols ? Some seem foreign while i could spot a Colt Gov model.
Any other firearms experts who could shed light on the weapons siezed ?
Anyway, if you read the article, got one glaring mistake man...
our police go and thank the "Republic of Malaysia Police". hahaha. -
Haha! Since when Malaysia is a republic? Bad mistake i must say.
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1 Baretta
1 L.Lama .22
1 Star7 .65
1 Taurus 9mm
1 Colt 4.45mm
1 Smith .38
Note:Taken from last night chinese newspaper called "xin min ri bao"
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Some possible errors:Originally posted by maggot:1 Baretta
1 L.Lama .22
1 Star7 .65
1 Taurus 9mm
1 Colt 4.45mm
1 Smith .38
Note:Taken from last night chinese newspaper called "xin min ri bao"
It is a Llama, not L.Lama. It is a Spanish manufacture. This make of handgun has very constantly been used for crimes in this region.
Star is another Spanish manufacturer.
Taurus is Brazilian manufacture.
The Colt is probably 0.45inch not mm. This translates into 11.43mm - a very large bullet.
Smith .38 is probably Smith & Wesson, and the .38 special is normally a revolver round cos the cartridge is quite long. .38 translates to 9.65mm. But it is a much more powerful round than the normal 9mm parabellum as the cartridge is longer. -
Not quite true. Assuming similar projectile weights, the 38 Special cartridge is actually somewhat less powerful than a 9mm cartridge. For example, a typical commercially-loaded 38 Special cartridge with a 125 gr. jacketed projectile clocks in with a velocity of around 1000 fps, while a 9mm cartridge with a 124 gr. FMJ projectile typically runs at about 1150 fps.Originally posted by tvdog:Smith .38 is probably Smith & Wesson, and the .38 special is normally a revolver round cos the cartridge is quite long. .38 translates to 9.65mm. But it is a much more powerful round than the normal 9mm parabellum as the cartridge is longer.
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More errors.Originally posted by maggot:1 Baretta
1 L.Lama .22
1 Star7 .65
1 Taurus 9mm
1 Colt 4.45mm
1 Smith .38
Note:Taken from last night chinese newspaper called "xin min ri bao"
Beretta, not baretta.
anyone can post a scan of the pics? The make alone is not a good ID of the semiautos.
eg. Llama have made guns which are loosely based copies of the Colt M1911. Similarily, Taurus have made licenced copies of the beretta 92F.
a Colt M1911 or modern equivalent fires the .45 ACP round. In fact the .45 ACP round(based on John Browning's earlier .380 ACP) was introduced alongside the M1911 colt round, and the ACP in the name stands for Automatic Colt Pistol. -
Wow, that's interesting.Originally posted by Meia Gisborn:Not quite true. Assuming similar projectile weights, the 38 Special cartridge is actually somewhat less powerful than a 9mm cartridge. For example, a typical commercially-loaded 38 Special cartridge with a 125 gr. jacketed projectile clocks in with a velocity of around 1000 fps, while a 9mm cartridge with a 124 gr. FMJ projectile typically runs at about 1150 fps.
So this makes the .38 special rather obsolete doesn't it? The 9mm is much more compact and suited for a aemiauto pistol.
Theoretically, the .38 special can be used in a semiauto right?
The .38 special is around the the same length as the .357 and .44 magnum, right? And there are automatic pistols using these 2 magnum rounds.
How come no one has made any .38 special semiautos? (or is there?)
I've never handled .357 or .44 semi but I suspect the pistol grip to be unsuitable for small hands since these rounds are so long? -
I wouldn't say it is obsolete. The 38 Special cartridge is 1/8" shorter than the venerable 357 Magnum, and revolvers chambered for the latter can also shoot the former (but not vice versa). Shot out of a 357 Magnum revolver, the 38 Special is actually a very comfortable and easy-shooting round, with virtually no recoil. There are also short-barrelled and highly concealable revolvers (like the popular Smith & Wesson "AirLite" series) chambered specifically for the 38 Special, that are intended to be carried as self-defense weapons.Originally posted by tvdog:Wow, that's interesting.
So this makes the .38 special rather obsolete doesn't it? The 9mm is much more compact and suited for a aemiauto pistol.
Theoretically, the .38 special can be used in a semiauto right?
The .38 special is around the the same length as the .357 and .44 magnum, right? And there are automatic pistols using these 2 magnum rounds.
How come no one has made any .38 special semiautos? (or is there?)
I've never handled .357 or .44 semi but I suspect the pistol grip to be unsuitable for small hands since these rounds are so long?
There are several revolvers on the market today chambered in calibers which are traditionally the domain of semi-autos--for example, Ruger and Taurus both sell revolvers chambered in 9mm and 45ACP. However, unless I am mistaken, the only semi-auto pistol available today that can fire revolver cartridges is the IMI Desert Eagle. There are versions of the DE that are chambered for the 357 Magnum and 44 Magnum cartridges (though I believe the former version is no longer manufactured).
Take a look at this image to see the difference is size between the two cartridges. These are cartridges I currently handload; the 357 Magnum and 38 Special are sixth and seventh from the left, respectively.
MG -
meia:
Sig has pistols that shoot the .357 Mag round. P228 is one, I believe.
Anyways, without a doubt the most powerful handgun u can buy Is a revolver. say hello to the daddy!
S&W .500 Revolver
Fires the .500 S&W round(center):
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2nd from left: 7.62 x 39 mm AK round?Originally posted by Meia Gisborn:Take a look at this image to see the difference is size between the two cartridges. These are cartridges I currently handload; the 357 Magnum and 38 Special are sixth and seventh from the left, respectively. -
HENG@,Originally posted by HENG@:meia:
Sig has pistols that shoot the .357 Mag round. P228 is one, I believe.
Anyways, without a doubt the most powerful handgun u can buy Is a revolver. say hello to the daddy!
S&W .500 Revolver
Fires the .500 S&W round(center):
You might be confusing the 357 SIG with the 357 Magnum. Here is an image of both of them:
The 357 SIG is on the left. Currently, Sig offers versions of the P226, P229, P239 and Sig Pro chambered for the 357 SIG cartridge.
As for the S&W .500 revolver, it really is a beast! They are becoming fairly common around here, and I had the opportunity to handle and shoot one last summer. The owner was shooting pretty hot handloads at the time, and kindly offered to let me touch off a couple of his rounds. Though the concussion was very substantial, the recoil was surprisingly mild--in my opinion, it wasn't any worse than shooting a warm factory load from a 454 Casull revolver. The sheer weight of the pistol probably helped to absorb much of the recoil energy. -
oh i see. my bad.Originally posted by Meia Gisborn:HENG@,
You might be confusing the 357 SIG with the 357 Magnum. Here is an image of both of them:
The 357 SIG is on the left. Currently, Sig offers versions of the P226, P229, P239 and Sig Pro chambered for the 357 SIG cartridge.
As for the S&W .500 revolver, it really is a beast! They are becoming fairly common around here, and I had the opportunity to handle and shoot one last summer. The owner was shooting pretty hot handloads at the time, and kindly offered to let me touch off a couple of his rounds. Though the concussion was very substantial, the recoil was surprisingly mild--in my opinion, it wasn't any worse than shooting a warm factory load from a 454 Casull revolver. The sheer weight of the pistol probably helped to absorb much of the recoil energy.
heh. .500. how big a hole did it make? -
Yup! I handload it for the couple of SKS rifles that I shoot. Here's one of them:Originally posted by HENG@:2nd from left: 7.62 x 39 mm AK round?
I don't own any AKs, though!
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Tha's a beautiful modern classic. Apparently, the SKS gives quite good accuracy inspite of the AK round - true? Where is your SKS made? And which country make the best SKS on the market in US?Originally posted by Meia Gisborn:Yup! I handload it for the couple of SKS rifles that I shoot. Here's one of them:
I don't own any AKs, though! -
Although I can probably do a quick research on the web, but perhaps Meia Gisborn or someone can answer this quickly for me:
The Russian AK-47 is a copy of the MP44 German WW2 weapon - right?
They copied the assault rifle concept, and the intermediate round - resulting in the 7.62x39mm.
But the SKS was the first Soviet service rifle to fire this short round - not the AK-47.
So, is it more accurate to say that: the AK-47 is not a direct descendant of the MP44, but a hybrid of both the MP44 and SKS? -
Indeed, I've always liked the "sleek but industrial" looks of the SKS, particularly those that have all that grenade launching hardware up front.Originally posted by tvdog:Tha's a beautiful modern classic. Apparently, the SKS gives quite good accuracy inspite of the AK round - true? Where is your SKS made? And which country make the best SKS on the market in US?
The 7.62x39 cartridge isn't necessarily an inherently inaccurate round. Its "reputation" for poor accuracy comes from its close association with the venerable AK-47, a rifle that was designed with operational reliability rather than raw accuracy in mind. Most AK-47s are built with relatively loose tolerances to allow them to continue functioning in the most adverse of conditions. For example, the fine dust encountered in a desert environment is less likely to cause an AK-47 to jam than a tight-fitting AR rifle. However, these loose tolerances wreak havoc with accuracy.
I can't speak for the accuracy of other SKS rifles, but the one in the image above is capable of reasonable accuracy (sub-5" groups at 100 yards using the plain iron sights) with my reduced-power target handloads. That particular SKS is Yugoslavian; my other one is a Chinese model made by Norinco. In terms of durability, the Yugoslavian-made SKSes are generally considered the best, as they incorporate improvements to the original Russian design, such as thicker chamber walls and a more reliable gas piston system.
(Wow! This thread has gone completely off-topic! ) -
How good/bad are the Chinese SKS?
The Chinese have a selective fire SKS called the Type 68. I have never seen SKS of any type in use anywhere in China. Completely phased out.
China has their own modifications to the AK-47 to improve accuracy. This resulted in the Type 81, with apparently improved accuracy. All the paramilitary (internal security) troops use this. And many PLA units as well. Longer barrel among other things...
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Chinese SKS rifles aren't as plentiful as the Yugoslavian ones in this country, and from what I can tell, they tend to be regarded as the least desirable of the SKSes amongst milsurp rifle collectors. Looking at one, it's easy to see why: the milling/machine work isn't as good, the trigger pull is comparatively heavy and gritty, and the wood used for the stock is rather soft and dings easily. In terms of accuracy, though, it seems to hold up as well as the Yugoslavian SKSes.Originally posted by tvdog:How good/bad are the Chinese SKS?
Strangely, despite being perceived as being less refined than the Yugoslavian ones, the Chinese SKSes sell for a bit more money. Yugoslavian SKSes in excellent to unissued condition generally go for between US$160 and US$180, but you'd be hard-pressed to find a Chinese one for under US$200.
Edited to add: Here is an image showing both the Yugoslavian (at top) and Chinese SKSes:
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Chinese arms are never known for refinement. Some even claim they are unreliable though I wouldn't know.Originally posted by Meia Gisborn:Chinese SKS rifles aren't as plentiful as the Yugoslavian ones in this country, and from what I can tell, they tend to be regarded as the least desirable of the SKSes amongst milsurp rifle collectors. Looking at one, it's easy to see why: the milling/machine work isn't as good, the trigger pull is comparatively heavy and gritty, and the wood used for the stock is rather soft and dings easily. In terms of accuracy, though, it seems to hold up as well as the Yugoslavian SKSes.
I have often wondered why the Comblocs preferred their rear apertures so far away from the firer's eyes? Like the AK and SKS series, all their rearsights are in the middle of the weapon whereas everybody else in the world makes weapons with rear sights in the conventional position near the firer's eyes.
China today makes all weapons with rear sights in the rear like the QBZ series.
How do you find these forward Combloc sights? -
coooolOriginally posted by Meia Gisborn:Yup! I handload it for the couple of SKS rifles that I shoot. Here's one of them:
I don't own any AKs, though! -
In the case of the SKS, it can't be helped, as the rear receiver cover is removable and wiggles around a bit; mounting a rear sight on it would result in an inconsistent zero.Originally posted by tvdog:Chinese arms are never known for refinement. Some even claim they are unreliable though I wouldn't know.
I have often wondered why the Comblocs preferred their rear apertures so far away from the firer's eyes? Like the AK and SKS series, all their rearsights are in the middle of the weapon whereas everybody else in the world makes weapons with rear sights in the conventional position near the firer's eyes.
China today makes all weapons with rear sights in the rear like the QBZ series.
How do you find these forward Combloc sights?
Personally, I like the rear sight where it is on the SKS. It's far enough forward that it remains in focus with the front sight when acquiring a sight picture. In comparison, on an AR with iron sights, the rear aperture is usually out of focus due to its closeness to the shooter's eye. -
So did the killer ever brought those pistols into singapore?
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That's a very interesting point. But I've read somewhere that these forward rear apertures of the SKS and AK series provide less accuracy. Something to do with the distance between fore and rear aperture too short.Originally posted by Meia Gisborn:Personally, I like the rear sight where it is on the SKS. It's far enough forward that it remains in focus with the front sight when acquiring a sight picture. In comparison, on an AR with iron sights, the rear aperture is usually out of focus due to its closeness to the shooter's eye. -
You're referring to the sight radius, which is the distance between the front and rear sights. Generally, a greater sight radius improves the shooter's ability to aim the firearm accurately. Note that it doesn't make the firearm more accurate--it merely allows the shooter to make the most of the firearm's inherent accuracy.Originally posted by tvdog:That's a very interesting point. But I've read somewhere that these forward rear apertures of the SKS and AK series provide less accuracy. Something to do with the distance between fore and rear aperture too short.
Rifles like the SKS and AK-47 are built to relatively loose tolerances to enhance operational reliability, and in so doing, sacrifice accuracy. A longer sight radius will do little to improve the accuracy of such rifles. but they are plenty adequate to get the shot into the kill zone at normal engagement distances.
