Arabs war on China
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Thx for saving me the trouble~~~Originally posted by sgdiehard:Official chinese records say very little about this incident. In a periodical "A Study of the Gansu People" dated 1999, an article written by Mr. Wang wrote about this incident, but quoted from a English missionary, who apparently quoted from the book "Islam in China and Turkistan" written by a French scholor in 1878.
According to the article, during the An Lu San rebellion, 4000 arabians soldiers under a general Kotche were sent to help the Tang emperor but they did not leave China after the rebellion. After some trouble they created in Lou Yang, the Tang emperor arranged for them to leave China for home by sea, through Canton (thats why they were in Canton). But when they arrived in Canton (now known as Guangzhou), they refused to board the ships and ganged up with the local arabs and persian merchants and occupied some warehouses. After some negotiations, they were finally were allowed to stay, married local girls....and the French author concluded that these are the forefathers of all muslims in China.
Mr. Wang, in studying into the people of Gansu, which is a province in the far west of China, had argued that there were already many muslims in Gansu and the soldiers who went to help the Tang emperor were actually the Gansu soldiers but mistaken as the arabian soldiers.
What is the truth? Scholars are arguing, but it is definitely not a battle between china and the muslims. pls don't use this and create something else.
Yup,the record was sparse but still recorded,i am not trying to say that it is a battle between china and the muslims,just additional supplement for the readers to judge. -
FYI, the Abbasids found out how to make paper from Chinese hostages taken during the battle of Talas.
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Tamerlane paying tribute to the Chinese? I highly doubt that. Unless you can provide a source for that.Originally posted by Typhoon:Perhaps in your dreams
The premise of this scenario is so blardy ridiculous I'm surprised you're not in the entertainment industry.
Even if your Arab and Persian merchants could somehow conceivably overwhelm the uncountable hordes of Chinese around them, history has shown time and again that conquering invaders such as the Mongolians in the thirteenth and the Manchus in the seventeenth centuries have found themselves inexorably sinicized after one or two generations of ruling China. Militarily the Chinese were easily conquered, but in the end the inevitable triumph was theirs. The result? Both Mongol and Manchu were assimilated, and today are but footnotes in the cultural history of China. The mainlanders now consider the Meng and Man as Chinese as the Han, and the Yuan and Qing dynasties as an integral part of Chinese history.
(By the same coin, some of the sillier mainlanders will claim the honour of having sacked Baghdad through their Mongolian proxies.
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In short, should the Arabs have conquered China, in short order they would have found themselves speaking Chinese and following Chinese customs.
The effect of Islamized China, however, makes for quite interesting speculation. Perhaps if Tamerlane had not perished before his planned campaign against the Ming, maybe we could have seen Islam as the predominant religon in China today.
Wait! What am I saying? Those Turkic-Mongol twits were already a vassal paying tribute to China by then. If you're looking for a clash of civilizations here, idwar, seems that you've backed the wrong horse.
(BTW, Just remembered that Tamerlane set fire to Baghdad as well.
As for converting others to Islam, quite honestly other then the initial arabs, it took many many generations for the people to convert. Even in Asia minor, the conversion was mainly due to displacement of the local Christians then actual conversion. In Egypt, Palastine and Syrian regions, the same can be said. Especially with the Palastine and Syrian reigons. It was mainly displacement then actual convertions.
However in Egypt, it was a gradual conversion that took 100's of years.Like really long time. And even today there are Christians living in those areas.(6%for Egypt and 16% for Syria,39% in Lebanon. In Palastine and Turkey they mainly moved out.)
In Arabia it was mainly forced conversions initially.Then again as you can see with the normadic tribes it somehow seem's easier to convert them.
The Turko-Mongolian tribes,the Berbers,Arabians and all that. -
Wikipedia:
In 1368 the Ming had driven the Mongols out of China. The first Ming Emperor demanded, and got, many Central Asian states to pay homage to China as the political heirs to the former House of Kublai. Timur more than once sent to the Ming Government gifts which could have passed as tribute, at first not daring to defy the economic and military might of the Middle Kingdom. There is some evidence that he was in fact a secret Ming vassal which must have enraged him though this was apparently not publicly acknowledged.
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Was Wu-er Kai Xi (Tien AnMen Incident leader) a Muslim?
Seems as if muslims created problems for the central govt now and then..... -
Both "Hui" and Uighurs are of Muslim ethnicity,though it seems that Uighurs have more angmoh looks~~~Originally posted by Dr Who:Was Wu-er Kai Xi (Tien AnMen Incident leader) a Muslim?
Seems as if muslims created problems for the central govt now and then.....
The Huis are forced to adopt han style of name during Ming dynasty,as decreed by the founder Zhu Yuanzhang. Hai Rui,an official during the era renowned for his integrity and honesty,is a Hui himself,and so is admiral Zheng He,whose original surname is "Ma"~~~
More contemporary Hui personality would be General Bai Chongxi(KMT),who is known as "little Zhuge",and his son Bai Xian Yong,a renowned author and playwright~~~ -
Regarding the battle of Talas, Chinese have their share of victories and losses in battles, most famously the invasions by Mongols and Manchus
So, what the point of this topic? -
hehe, I am still wondering, what is the intention of the starter of this thread.Originally posted by laurence82:Regarding the battle of Talas, Chinese have their share of victories and losses in battles, most famously the invasions by Mongols and Manchus
So, what the point of this topic?
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Uh........trivias of military history?Originally posted by laurence82:Regarding the battle of Talas, Chinese have their share of victories and losses in battles, most famously the invasions by Mongols and Manchus
So, what the point of this topic?
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okOriginally posted by liuzg150181:Uh........trivias of military history?
i guess for reading pleasure only -
Purpose? : To examine the role ARABS played in Chinese history
To show that Cantonese people had problems with Arabs since the Tang Dynasty.
To draw attention to the fact that the CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS is not something new, but had been around since ancient days........and that Canton could have been Arabised if the Arabs had not been expelled by force of arms....and some of you cantonese would be HUI today.......... -
Arabised? I highly doubt it, more likely the Arabs would have become adapted to Chinese life and become Chinese in every aspect apart from religon.Originally posted by idwar:Purpose? : To examine the role ARABS played in Chinese history
To show that Cantonese people had problems with Arabs since the Tang Dynasty.
To draw attention to the fact that the CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS is not something new, but had been around since ancient days........and that Canton could have been Arabised if the Arabs had not been expelled by force of arms....and some of you cantonese would be HUI today..........
Clash of Civilizations is not something new. The Greeks and Persians wars was a clash of civilizations.The Assyrians and Egyptians wars were the same.
Heck going back to the Summerians was also a clash of civilizations. Not to mention religon. -
Originally posted by idwar:Purpose? : To examine the role ARABS played in Chinese history
To show that Cantonese people had problems with Arabs since the Tang Dynasty.
To draw attention to the fact that the CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS is not something new, but had been around since ancient days........and that Canton could have been Arabised if the Arabs had not been expelled by force of arms....and some of you cantonese would be HUI today..........
Keep wanking. -
After some consideration, it is not too difficult to surmise the purpose of this thread. idwar's intention was to provide either one of the following to the members of the forum:
1) A waste of bandwidth.
2) A jokes thread.
Most forumners should be able to recall idwar's past appearances here as a sad sorry Malaysian clown who never fails to entertain with his lovable antics. A bit like Mahathir, really. His latest act as seen here boasts a near unbeatable combination: an extensive command of laughable psuedo-history taken entirely out of context and a commendable pigheaded unwillingness to read, process and acknowledge facts.
I see no further need to rebutt his idiocy as this has been done in many of the above posts. I will however await his reply as it may provide a source of laughter and amusement in the days to come. -
Totally agreed dudeOriginally posted by Typhoon:After some consideration, it is not too difficult to surmise the purpose of this thread. idwar's intention was to provide either one of the following to the members of the forum:
1) A waste of bandwidth.
2) A jokes thread.
Most forumners should be able to recall idwar's past appearances here as a sad sorry Malaysian clown who never fails to entertain with his lovable antics. A bit like Mahathir, really. His latest act as seen here boasts a near unbeatable combination: an extensive command of laughable psuedo-history taken entirely out of context and a commendable pigheaded unwillingness to read, process and acknowledge facts.
I see no further need to rebutt his idiocy as this has been done in many of the above posts. I will however await his reply as it may provide a source of laughter and amusement in the days to come.
Is this the very chap who started the Christmas Isles fracas back then? -
I highly doubt your allegation that the Cantonese or Chinese in general has had problems with the Arabs since the Tang dynasty. You seem to imply that there has been an ongoing animosity to this day. Do you have any references to back up your statement?Originally posted by idwar:Purpose? : To examine the role ARABS played in Chinese history
To show that Cantonese people had problems with Arabs since the Tang Dynasty.
To draw attention to the fact that the CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS is not something new, but had been around since ancient days........and that Canton could have been Arabised if the Arabs had not been expelled by force of arms....and some of you cantonese would be HUI today..........
Clash of civilizations is nothing new and has been recorded in the annals of history. The British, Dutch, French and Portugese have fought each other both at home and in foreign lands during colonial times but that is in the past. Look at where they stand now under the common umbrella of NATO, and even in most cases sharing the same Euro currency. We should learn from history but we should not let it be a stumbling block to the future.
For what its worth, the British even fought the Americans during their War of Independence. Yet the US sent millions of troops to Europe during WW2 to fight on the side of the British. Germany and Japan fought the Allies tooth and nail. Where do they stand now?
And those statements about "if......had not.....maybe " - pure hypothesis and extrapolation from what did not happen. What if the British didn't invent radar? What if they were not able to crack Germany's Ultra codes, what if Germany was first to invent the atom bomb, what if the USA stayed neutral in WW2, what if Winston Churchill wasn't the one to steer Britain in WW2, what if the Soviet Union started launching ICBMs at major US cities, what if ......
There's so many what ifs that may form contingency plans in a country's strategic position but when its history, its past. The US and USSR may have aimed ICBMs at each other in the past but that's not been much of a barrier to trade and relations today, is there?
Race and religion is a sensitive thing and I do not like to see the harmony that we enjoy between races being broken up. Some people just thrive on conflict and disagreement. -
That was Dr Who. THe same person was responsible for a few Aussie-bashing threads as well.Originally posted by laurence82:Totally agreed dude
Is this the very chap who started the Christmas Isles fracas back then? -
i think idwar's underlying intention is to stir up hatred between chinese and arabs. its obvious.
and i really think that what idwar said so far is damn retarded. Im sorry.