How come Officers use Pistol in war?
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what is CAR-15?Originally posted by Shotgun:under 25 meters the pistol is still a very accurate weapon lar, given a good amount of training.
Personally, I think ST Kinetics should try coming up with a new lightweight 9mm smg to compete with heckler as well as FN.
Then rear elements such as HQ officers can have these PDWs instead of bulky rifles or under-powered pistols. Buying mp5s (Which is quite bulky anyways, being the largest SMG), or additional P90s just isn't cheap.
Btw is it true that Armor vehicle crews in future would carry p90s over the CAR-15? -
he hides in a nice safe place n yells to his men to advance, of course dun need a gun to shoot far la. when all their men have died while the officer hides, and the enemy advances towards him, a pistol is more than sufficient for shooting himself withOriginally posted by Agenda:Like in Saving Private Ryan and other war movie, The big dudes always use Pistol rather than Rifle and feel very honour to get their pistol.. I mean I would rather have a big gun beside me than a small one
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early carbine version of the AR 15Originally posted by relackjack:what is CAR-15? -
Yeah .. you try to kill as many tangos as possible .. then let them waste their rounds killing you. Smart move.Originally posted by SpecOps87:I think a good officer, specialist and or tropper would make each and every single one of his rounds count before being taken out the enemy. After all, am a believer that in War, its not about dyig for your country, but making the other bastard die for his/hers.
Better than one round to your head yourself. -
War is not about killing the enemy. It is defeating the enemy's will to fight. If killing the enemy troops aids in that, then so be it.
What do you gain by emptying every single round against the enemy, but u know that they will just overwhelm you anyway? You only fuel their desire to spill blood. If indeed it comes to that kinda situation, where your position is about to be overrun, its time to act out prepared retrogade plans.
Retreat, planting of mines and other booby traps to discourage the enemy from pursuing. Calling of artillery fire etc.
Does shooting urself before the enemy overwhelms you help to defeat them? Nope... It just helps them to conserve their ammunition thats all. -
No men dare to enter into the battlefield without their leaders making the initial move. No men will respect a leader who shout orders from afar without being at the forth front with his men.Originally posted by HENG@:he hides in a nice safe place n yells to his men to advance, of course dun need a gun to shoot far la. when all their men have died while the officer hides, and the enemy advances towards him, a pistol is more than sufficient for shooting himself with
Any officers holding field appointment know that he has to be in the forth front not only to be aware of the ground situation and terrain but also to set the fighting tempo, to rally morale or to lead his fellow men. Yet, he has to be cautious that he himself should not get engross in a fire-fight when contacted because his immediate task to follow, should be to coordinate the movement/deploy of his troops in such a way as to utilise their firepower upfront, preventing fratricide in the event of flanking, look out for strategic spots or to relay information back to HQ. Only then can he hope to achieve mission success for the benefits of the bigger picture. Beside, all soldiers are equip with a standard rifle each as primary weapon which is mandatary to carry with them into battle as per SOP and the pistol is only secondary.
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In Saving Private Ryan, Tom Hanks was a Platoon Commander.
In SAF, the PCs already carry the following items: compass, map case and binoculars - on top of their SBO, helmut, rifle (and sometimes, a fullpack).
Now add to this load a sidearm (and spare mags).
When the officer's job is to lead, why should he be encumbered with so much weaponry?
PS What rule says you can only shoot deserters with a pistol? -
Some Murphy's Laws of Combat.Originally posted by tvdog:In Saving Private Ryan, Tom Hanks was a Platoon Commander.
In SAF, the PCs already carry the following items: compass, map case and binoculars - on top of their SBO, helmut, rifle (and sometimes, a fullpack).
Now add to this load a sidearm (and spare mags).
When the officer's job is to lead, why should he be encumbered with so much weaponry?
PS What rule says you can only shoot deserters with a pistol?
1. The most dangerous thing in an battlefield is an officer with a map.
2. If you really need an officer in a hurry, take a nap. -
I dunno how true this is...
but SAF pistols will be issued on a need to have basis in time of crisis or requested for.
remember during the Tekong Manhunt? I see a few WOs with holster and pistols. I believe that's also their first time seeing them and given 5 minute technical handling test. haha. -
as described by my OCS PC, deserters will be bought into a tentage, and interrogated by the officer, if found guilty, he will be executed on the spot, using a pistol at point blank range to the forehead.
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You guys just dun get it do u. The officer does teh shouting n ordering while the men do the rushing. He dun need no big rilfes when he got his men doing the shooting. To look like he is doing something , he is armed with a pistol.. but not a rifle.. also to point out that he is incapable of doing front line missions.. hence the pistol... at the back HE HE..
Imagine ur Officer armed with para's n bazookas briefing u guys.. They armed with pistol coz desert faster ma.. while u guys with the rilfes n backpacks damn jiat lat... -
Can't be helped since every chau peng kia would report sick at the first sign of trouble.
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after that what? grab the dog tag from the dead soldier?Originally posted by relackjack:as described by my OCS PC, deserters will be bought into a tentage, and interrogated by the officer, if found guilty, he will be executed on the spot, using a pistol at point blank range to the forehead. -
DesertionOriginally posted by relackjack:as described by my OCS PC, deserters will be bought into a tentage, and interrogated by the officer, if found guilty, he will be executed on the spot, using a pistol at point blank range to the forehead.
23.—(1) Every person subject to military law who deserts shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction by a subordinate military court to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or any less punishment authorised by this Act.
(2) For the purposes of this section, a person deserts if he —
(a) leaves or fails to attend at his place of duty in the Singapore Armed Forces with the intention of remaining permanently absent from duty without lawful authority, or, having left or failed to attend at his place of duty in the Singapore Armed Forces, thereafter forms the like intention; or
(b) absents himself without leave with intent to avoid service or any particular service before the enemy,
and references in this Act to desertion shall be construed accordingly.
Your OCS PC would be charged with murder if he does that. -
anyways we're just talking about Singapore. Most militaries around the world issue their soldiers pistols as secondary weapons.
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lol during war will there be time to imprison anyone? if everyone deserts and we lose, will there still be a prison???
maybe u are right.. anyway it isn't practised anymore -
Originally posted by Shotgun:
Agreed.
Desertion
23.—(1) Every person subject to military law who deserts shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction by a subordinate military court to imprisonment for a term [b] not exceeding 10 years or any less punishment authorised by this Act.
(2) For the purposes of this section, a person deserts if he —
(a) leaves or fails to attend at his place of duty in the Singapore Armed Forces with the intention of remaining permanently absent from duty without lawful authority, or, having left or failed to attend at his place of duty in the Singapore Armed Forces, thereafter forms the like intention; or
(b) absents himself without leave with intent to avoid service or any particular service before the enemy,
and references in this Act to desertion shall be construed accordingly.
Your OCS PC would be charged with murder if he does that. [/b] -
I seriously doubt so. Introduce a non mainstream line of ammo (4.7mm)Originally posted by Shotgun:under 25 meters the pistol is still a very accurate weapon lar, given a good amount of training.
Personally, I think ST Kinetics should try coming up with a new lightweight 9mm smg to compete with heckler as well as FN.
Then rear elements such as HQ officers can have these PDWs instead of bulky rifles or under-powered pistols. Buying mp5s (Which is quite bulky anyways, being the largest SMG), or additional P90s just isn't cheap.
Btw is it true that Armor vehicle crews in future would carry p90s over the CAR-15? -
This does sound like murder. Your OCS PC must be kidding you.Originally posted by relackjack:as described by my OCS PC, deserters will be bought into a tentage, and interrogated by the officer, if found guilty, he will be executed on the spot, using a pistol at point blank range to the forehead.
I believe it is lawful to shoot a soldier if he deserts in the heat of battle and disobeys orders to stop running away. Or if the soldier acts in an insurbodinate way that endangers the lives of other people, it might be lawful to shoot him in self defence or to protect the lives of others.
But if you capture a deserter you don't bring him to a tent and shoot him. That's barbaric. You can't even do that to an enemy POW or "enemy civilian", much less to your own guys.
And if we do execute people convicted or crimes in the military, wouldn't it be more ceremonial like a firing squad? -
Equally barbaric. You read the act again on the definiton of deserter.Originally posted by tvdog:I believe it is lawful to shoot a soldier if he deserts in the heat of battle and disobeys orders to stop running away. Or if the soldier acts in an insurbodinate way that endangers the lives of other people, it might be lawful to shoot him in self defence or to protect the lives of others.
but i agree on the self defence part -
Even so, you do not shoot to kill if possible, especially for the first situation.The second would depend on whether taking him down or disabling him is better for the safety of others.If there is no choice, normally it will be a shoot-to-kill policy to protect the rest.Originally posted by tvdog:This does sound like murder. Your OCS PC must be kidding you.
I believe it is lawful to shoot a soldier if he deserts in the heat of battle and disobeys orders to stop running away. Or if the soldier acts in an insurbodinate way that endangers the lives of other people, it might be lawful to shoot him in self defence or to protect the lives of others.
But if you capture a deserter you don't bring him to a tent and shoot him. That's barbaric. You can't even do that to an enemy POW or "enemy civilian", much less to your own guys.
And if we do execute people convicted or crimes in the military, wouldn't it be more ceremonial like a firing squad? -
Well, believe that it would not be wrong if the officer shoots a trooper who demoralises the morale of the troops and ask them to join him in deserting. That would be utterly coward. But that is not to say, we follow what the Russians did at Stalingrad, asking the men to charge and gunning down those who retreat.
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u cannot just shoot a soldier for desertion. Its not allowed, by military law.
It is however, possible to sentence a soldier to death for misconduct in action.
However, that would require a field court marshal.
And unless the verdict in the court marshal is unanimous, the soldier cannot be sentenced to death. The presiding officer must be a captain and above if i am not wrong. So not any tom dick or harry pc can happy happy shoot a soldier. -
Oh, but there were instances where soldiers running away from batle are shot on the spot especially in the Russian army. This was necessary to immediately discourage others from doing the same.Originally posted by Icemoon:Equally barbaric. You read the act again on the definiton of deserter.
but i agree on the self defence part -
well .. we are not the Russian army.Originally posted by tvdog:Oh, but there were instances where soldiers running away from batle are shot on the spot especially in the Russian army. This was necessary to immediately discourage others from doing the same.