Is the AR15/M16 Family of Weapons Obsolete?
-
Like the topic says "Is the AR15/M16 Family of Weapons Obsolete?", in general not just in Singapore. I'm not starting a "_____ VS M16" debate.
In a period of Piston Operated weapons has the M16 with its Direct Impingement system reached the end of its life?
Is it really inferior compared to other 5.56mm rifles out there in terms of reliability etc.
Is the M16 really that terrible a weapon. We've all heard/read the horror stories of the M16 platform, some even make it sound like an over glorified paperweight. But is it really that bad.
However, I've seen some AR15/M16 take a lot of beating and still keep going.
Does the modularity of the M16 buy it some points or it just an excuse to keep them.
Share your opinions, information and experiences with the M16.
Has the old work horse finally reached the end of its life? -
Barrel life reached the end so dump or else a lot of chamber explosions
-
Where did you get the idea that a worn out barrel will lead to chamber explosion?Originally posted by maggot:Barrel life reached the end so dump or else a lot of chamber explosions -
Sorry... chamber explosions and worn out barrels? Can explain how it works??
I thot chamber explosions happen when ur rounds cook off....
I think SAR-21 is obsolete. Muahaha. -
Judging by tha amount of IA you get in BMT I would say yes... The zeroing and aiming of the gun is not the best either.
Also, its just to unnecessary heavy. Must be one of the heaviest gun around.
Wonder if AK is lighter. -
The M16 is a lightweight weapon... The AK-47 weighs nearly 1 kg more!Originally posted by jianfish9:Judging by tha amount of IA you get in BMT I would say yes... The zeroing and aiming of the gun is not the best either.
Also, its just to unnecessary heavy. Must be one of the heaviest gun around.
Wonder if AK is lighter.
Haha I can easily hold the M16 with 1 hand! In fact my batch jus abt anyone in my platoon could! Wait till you handle support weapons like the Ultimax 100 or GPMG! Hmmm the new batches of soldiers ah
And also... the M16s in BMT are the oldest ones in service with the SAF. Why should we let recruits handle brand new weapons and let them spoil it due to inexperience and rough usage? There is a vast stock of new weapons including M16s that we keep just for open warfare. -
Check out the Israeli TAR-21... It looks just like our SAR-21...Originally posted by Shotgun:Sorry... chamber explosions and worn out barrels? Can explain how it works??
I thot chamber explosions happen when ur rounds cook off....
I think SAR-21 is obsolete. Muahaha.
Anyway I was wondering until now why we did not build the French FAMAS or other European designs under licence. And oh, the Steyr AUG is overrated. It is even more touchy and prone to damage than the SAR-21 according to my friend who exercised with New Zealand troopers and had an opportunity to check out each others' weapons. -
the Tavor comes with a built in reflex sight if i am not wrong.
-
Material stress fatigue at chamber area of the barrelOriginally posted by tvdog:Where did you get the idea that a worn out barrel will lead to chamber explosion?
Each round fired actually induces stress to the area -
The BMT M16s will fail FFI checks at a standard meant for combat units and bases.
Nuff said.They have more leeway for worn out weapons, within the safe margin of course. -
It's FFFOriginally posted by LazerLordz:The BMT M16s will fail FFI checks at a standard meant for combat units and bases.
Nuff said.They have more leeway for worn out weapons, within the safe margin of course.
-
My experience of the M 16 and AR 15 has been pretty good. The IA stoppage that we mostly see are usually due to firing of Blank cartridges. Next time, if you have the chance, take notes as to how many IAs you get when you are on exercise firing blanks, and when you are at a Live Firing exercise. This applies to burst firing on auto mode... with the blanks you are definitely going to get jammed after one magazine. With rounds, I think less than 1% stoppage.
I have been thru' all sorts of environments with the M16 and it has not failed me. Firing after emerging from a swamp and in cold temperatures etc etc.
Main thing, as with all rifles, is regular cleaning , even in the field. A simple wipe -off of the bolt carrier and dusting of the magazine top is important.
Close the chamber door also ... the one on the right side exposing the bolt carrier... this would prevent most stoppages in the field.
Quality of the ammo is one of the major factors in IA stoppages. -
paiseh..oh crap..it's my specialty somemore..argh.Originally posted by maggot:It's FFF
*smacks head* -
Most of my jams that i got with live firing the M-16 was half feeding or no feeding at all. Most of the time, the magazine springs were too weak when it contained just 4 rounds. I suppose its not the M-16's fault, but the magazine.Originally posted by specfore:My experience of the M 16 and AR 15 has been pretty good. The IA stoppage that we mostly see are usually due to firing of Blank cartridges. Next time, if you have the chance, take notes as to how many IAs you get when you are on exercise firing blanks, and when you are at a Live Firing exercise. This applies to burst firing on auto mode... with the blanks you are definitely going to get jammed after one magazine. With rounds, I think less than 1% stoppage.
I have been thru' all sorts of environments with the M16 and it has not failed me. Firing after emerging from a swamp and in cold temperatures etc etc.
Main thing, as with all rifles, is regular cleaning , even in the field. A simple wipe -off of the bolt carrier and dusting of the magazine top is important.
Close the chamber door also ... the one on the right side exposing the bolt carrier... this would prevent most stoppages in the field.
Quality of the ammo is one of the major factors in IA stoppages.
Besides that, I liked my M-16... i still remember my butt number was 203. Loved it, it was light, and accurate. I shot off the red glow sticks marking the edge boundaries down range just to prove i could shoot at night as well as in the day. Haha. Saved my good spec a long walk down to remove it as well. -
never seen a person do that before man..how big is the target?u must either be super accurate or super lucky or jus used alot of bullets..Originally posted by Shotgun:Besides that, I liked my M-16... i still remember my butt number was 203. Loved it, it was light, and accurate. I shot off the red glow sticks marking the edge boundaries down range just to prove i could shoot at night as well as in the day. Haha. Saved my good spec a long walk down to remove it as well. -
I think i was just lucky lar. The red glowstick... is the normal one we use to hang on tonners when carrying ammo or hang on our backs etc one... not very small.
It was on the extreme right. After i got rid of my tracer, i shot it off. Didn really see what happened to it, all i know was, at first it was hanging brightly, and after that, it was not.
But night range was damn fun lar, star wars! =D -
dun tok abt SAW or MG..u never carry a SAR 21 before rite..Originally posted by jianfish9:Judging by tha amount of IA you get in BMT I would say yes... The zeroing and aiming of the gun is not the best either.
Also, its just to unnecessary heavy. Must be one of the heaviest gun around.
Wonder if AK is lighter. -
OMG! The M-16 is LIGHT lor. Once u carry the Sar-21, u will be wondering where is the wisdom of having a next generation combat rifle that is heavier than the predecessor!
-
The AR platform might be considered 'obsolete' in military circles, but the cancellation of the XM8 program last fall seems to have given it a new lease of life.
If the increasing number and variety of AR rifles showing up at local ranges is any indication, the AR platform seems to be riding a wave of popularity amongst civilian firearms enthusiasts here in the US. -
Actually right... the AR 15 and the M16 are the same... AR 15 is the name given by colt industries... while M16 is given by the american army for what reason i dont know... but seriously... i think the M16 have been of use to SAF for damn long liao la.... and the rifle seriously has many probs...
althoug me not in saf.... but i need to cock the weapons 4 times just to do combat zeroing.... the things always kena half feeding and no feed one... damn jialat... the SAF spec says its faulty mag... okay fine but look at the body of the rifle.... so worn out... i think they better service all the M16s... if not it will be a terror to use it....
Imagine a flawless M16.... i think SAR 21 can be flushed down the toilet... hahah
I do believe that m16 is one of the better rifles in the world now... compared to SAR 21... always kena chamber explosion... hahaha some say its because of the dbl feeding thingy or sthg got into the chamber.. hahahh.. -
Erhhhh... if you not in or have been SAF how come you do zeroing on an M16? If you talking about it at the the ones you play play with at the various exhibitions etc... aiyah, those not the combat issue ones lah.
Give me a M16 with a zeroed scope over the SAR21 anyday. Or even better the Carbine version. -
how can a weapon where most pple knowhow to use be obsolete? even 40+ yr old know how to fire
-
Why would it be obsolete?
You squeeze the trigger, it goes bang and the round hits generally where it's aimed at (account for your marksmanship skills or lack thereof), and the weapon's perfectly usable.
As for obsolesence, you would have two major factors: function and availability of consumables.
Function: the auto-loader superceded the manually loaded rifle, and the full-auto superceded the auto-loader. Is there any mode of fire for new rifles that the M-16 doesn't have?
Consumables - 5.56 is still standard issue internationally, and I don't think parts for the M-16 family will run out for quite a while yet.
Nope, it's not obsolete. -
Yes, forgot about the faulty magazine. That was why during my time when the company went for their marksmanship tests, the OC asked the CQM to draw new magazines. But in war, as a reservist, you will be issued new magazines and new rounds to load. IAs will seldom happen then.Originally posted by Shotgun:Most of my jams that i got with live firing the M-16 was half feeding or no feeding at all. Most of the time, the magazine springs were too weak when it contained just 4 rounds. I suppose its not the M-16's fault, but the magazine.
Besides that, I liked my M-16... i still remember my butt number was 203. Loved it, it was light, and accurate. I shot off the red glow sticks marking the edge boundaries down range just to prove i could shoot at night as well as in the day. Haha. Saved my good spec a long walk down to remove it as well.
Accuracy of the M16... this was probably the more significant fault compared to other assault rifles. The M16 was built to be able to disassemble easily. The 2 big retaining pins holding the barrel assembly to the trigger assembly and butt are the key components that would dictate whether your zeroing is OK or not. If the pins are fitted loosely, how much zeroing you do will be useless. At long ranges , more than 150m... a small zero error will mean a missed shot. -
Well, I belief the AR15/M16 series weapons are still far away from being scrapped. Why? As its one of the most ergonimacally designed weapon to date and also its lightweight, and easy to train the shooter with.