USS Nimitz Vs Japanese Pearl Harbor Strike Force
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Heard of the show "The Final Countdown"? Link is here http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080736/
Well,it is a 1980 movie about the USS Nimitz getting trapped in a time warp and got transported to Hawaiian waters on 7 December 1941.
In the show,the Nimitz was on the verge of sending off a strike package against Nagumo's task force before it got engulfed in the time warp again and got sent back to the present time.So history did not change.
Let's fantasize a bit.What would have happened if the Nimitz did not meet the time warp?
USS Nimitz's air wing during the Cold War generally consisted of 86 aircraft
24 F-14A Tomcat fleet air defence interceptors
24 A-7E Corsair attack aircraft
12 A-6E Intruder attack aircraft
12 S-3A Viking ASW aircraft
6 SH-3G Sea King ASW helicopters
4 E-2C AWACS aircraft
4 EA-6B Prowler electronic warfare aircraft
Versus
Pearl Harbor Attack Task Force
6 aircraft carriers carrying around 420 aircraft(140 Zero fighters,140 Val dive bombers,140 Kate torpedo bombers)
2 battleships
2 heavy cruisers
1 light cruisers
11 destroyers
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IT like ages ago!! Anyway maybe you would like to ask something more realistic and more argumentative.
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Well, though the Nimitz force is heavily outnumbered, their technological superiority should give them the edge. Though the Zero fighter was one of the better fighters of its time, no way on earth can they match the Tomcats.
At the very least, they ought to be able to take out a huge chunk of Nagumo's task force before they get the chance to escape. -
I think the Nimitz can take out the entire task force.Originally posted by fudgester:Well, though the Nimitz force is heavily outnumbered, their technological superiority should give them the edge. Though the Zero fighter was one of the better fighters of its time, no way on earth can they match the Tomcats.
At the very least, they ought to be able to take out a huge chunk of Nagumo's task force before they get the chance to escape.
60 of its aircraft are Harpoon capable(the Intruder,Corsair and Viking)
If the Nimitz launch all 60 planes each carrying 2 Harpoons.(they can carry up to 4 if the range is shorter)It's 120 ASMs boring down at Nagumo and friends.Mind you Nagumo did not have SAMs or chaff or radar. -
based on common sense and numbers the nimitz will sure winOriginally posted by Marco_Simone:Heard of the show "The Final Countdown"? Link is here http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080736/
Well,it is a 1980 movie about the USS Nimitz getting trapped in a time warp and got transported to Hawaiian waters on 7 December 1941.
In the show,the Nimitz was on the verge of sending off a strike package against Nagumo's task force before it got engulfed in the time warp again and got sent back to the present time.So history did not change.
Let's fantasize a bit.What would have happened if the Nimitz did not meet the time warp?
USS Nimitz's air wing during the Cold War generally consisted of 86 aircraft
24 F-14A Tomcat fleet air defence interceptors
24 A-7E Corsair attack aircraft
12 A-6E Intruder attack aircraft
12 S-3A Viking ASW aircraft
6 SH-3G Sea King ASW helicopters
4 E-2C AWACS aircraft
4 EA-6B Prowler electronic warfare aircraft
Versus
Pearl Harbor Attack Task Force
6 aircraft carriers carrying around 420 aircraft(140 Zero fighters,140 Val dive bombers,140 Kate torpedo bombers)
2 battleships
2 heavy cruisers
1 light cruisers
11 destroyers -
i rather that they just sit there and do nothing...the whole course of history would change for the worse...
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they'd run out of ammo, and then die, but nagumo's force would be near dead then.
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Ha! i remember watching that movie and asking the same question.
Seriously speaking, the japs wont know what hit them. First all their Zeros and bettys would drop out of the skies, kena hit by BVRAAMs.
Then their ships would kena sunk by Harpoons.
If any one tried to kamikaze the nimitz, they'd find themselves shredded by the R2D2s on da nimitz. Not to mention the nimitz has also a couple of sea-sparrows.
Remember... the japs didn have radar warning recievers that time!
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Most sensible answer would be that Nitmitz would win in the first few battles.
Once they expended all the ammo in the aircraft carrier , because japanese battleships are well armed , so it will definitely take more then 2 harpoons
Once the ammo is gone , the weakened japanese force would wipe out the nitmitz -
Regarding air battle , they might be only able to down only a few zero fighters.
Cause the amount of zero fighters there is far too many.
Thus the F-14s will enter into a dogfight with the Zero fighters(no more missiles) , however propeller planes are more agile . So Zero Fighters will win in dogfight.
If the planes did not get to launch from the 6 aircraft carriers , then the nitmitz might win. -
Impossible.Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:Most sensible answer would be that Nitmitz would win in the first few battles.
Once they expended all the ammo in the aircraft carrier , because japanese battleships are well armed , so it will definitely take more then 2 harpoons
Once the ammo is gone , the weakened japanese force would wipe out the nitmitz
Let's say the Nimitz launches a full scale strike package of 12 A-6s,12 S-3s,24 A-7s each armed with 2 Harpoons.That's 96 Harpoons.Of the 96 launched,let's say 90 would reach the target (the other 6 would not due to technical glitches)There are 22 ships in the Jap task force.Let's say 6 Harpoons each for the 6 carriers and 2 battleships.Mind you the two battleships are not of the Yamato class.They were of the Hiei-class.Indeed,they were built as battle cruisers during WW1 and conveniently designated as battleships before WW2.They had weak armour so I think they will succumb to 6 Harpoon hits.Furthermore,Japanese damage control was pretty weak throughout WW2.The first strike would most likely take out all of the 6 carriers and 2 battleships.
48 Harpoons for the main body.Still got 48 Harpoons right? 1 Harpoon would be enough for each destroyer.Maybe 3 Harpoons for each of the 3 cruisers.Still 27 Harpoons left.Indeed,96 Harpoons for the first strike would a bit of an overkill!
Now would the strike force have the chance of launching their Harpoons? Yes.The maximum range of this ASM is round 60-70nm.Of course they would try to launch them nearer,say 40-50nm to increase the chances of a hit.IJN CAP patrols were usually positioned very close to the main body of carriers.Around 10-20nm.Hence,the Zeros would not have the chance of seeing what hit their mother ships.Furthermore,the Zero(maximum speed=300+ knots) was too slow to catch up with a Harpoon(cruising speed=650 knots),let alone shoot it down. When the Harpoons were inbound,the Jap ships would try to evade but in vain because the Harpoons were radar guided.
Another point you mentioned is that the Nimitz would run out of ammo before the Jap task force was totally destroyed. Impossible.Even without Harpoons,there were still countless bombs-laser guided and dumb alike.And you stated that the Jap task force would chase after the Nimitz. The Nimitz is a huge ship but she is no slow snail. She is capable of 35 knots.Yes,the Jap task force without the carriers and battleships was also capable of that speed,but do they have the endurance? The Nimitz is nuclear powered mind you.Do you know she can cruise for 13 years straight without "refuelling"? -
The F-14s don't need to get into a dogfight with the Zero.The F-14 is armed with the longest range AAM in the world-the AIM-54 Phoenix with a range of up to 100nm.The Jap CAP would just start exploding in the air and no one would have an inkling what happened to them.Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:Regarding air battle , they might be only able to down only a few zero fighters.
Cause the amount of zero fighters there is far too many.
Thus the F-14s will enter into a dogfight with the Zero fighters(no more missiles) , however propeller planes are more agile . So Zero Fighters will win in dogfight.
If the planes did not get to launch from the 6 aircraft carriers , then the nitmitz might win.
You say the Zero would win a dogfight with the Tomcat? Now let's dissect this assertion.The Zero is much more agile.But it has only 2 7.7m MGs and 2 20mm cannons.The tactic of the Zero is to use its 7.7mm MGs to weaken its opponent first before closing in to deliver the knock out blow with its 20mm.Now can 7.7mm seriously damage the F-14? Furthermore,even if a Tomcat faces 10 Zeros,he don't need to give battle.The pilot just need to go to afterburner and his plane would swoosh away at Mach 2+.
Anyway,I don't think the Nimitz strike package would want to make its presence known by destroying the Zeros.They would fly to 40-50nm away,launch their Harpoons and then fu-ck off. -
Did u forget to include F-18?Originally posted by Marco_Simone:Heard of the show "The Final Countdown"? Link is here http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080736/
Well,it is a 1980 movie about the USS Nimitz getting trapped in a time warp and got transported to Hawaiian waters on 7 December 1941.
In the show,the Nimitz was on the verge of sending off a strike package against Nagumo's task force before it got engulfed in the time warp again and got sent back to the present time.So history did not change.
Let's fantasize a bit.What would have happened if the Nimitz did not meet the time warp?
USS Nimitz's air wing during the Cold War generally consisted of 86 aircraft
24 F-14A Tomcat fleet air defence interceptors
24 A-7E Corsair attack aircraft
12 A-6E Intruder attack aircraft
12 S-3A Viking ASW aircraft
6 SH-3G Sea King ASW helicopters
4 E-2C AWACS aircraft
4 EA-6B Prowler electronic warfare aircraft
Versus
Pearl Harbor Attack Task Force
6 aircraft carriers carrying around 420 aircraft(140 Zero fighters,140 Val dive bombers,140 Kate torpedo bombers)
2 battleships
2 heavy cruisers
1 light cruisers
11 destroyers
-
I knew someone would ask that.The scenario was in 1981.Hornets were not available that time.You also notice the helicopters are Sea Kings instead of Sea Hawks.Originally posted by larrenV2.003:Did u forget to include F-18? -
Oh yah correct 1984 they started with the construction, 1987 they experiment & test flight it & tata 1990 its been commissioned liao if i not wrong.Originally posted by Marco_Simone:I knew someone would ask that.The scenario was in 1981.Hornets were not available that time.You also notice the helicopters are Sea Kings instead of Sea Hawks. -
Originally posted by Marco_Simone:
Despite nuclear carrier can cruise 13yrs without refueling...Can it carry enough food for 5000 people for 13 yrs? Replenish still need to be done for every 60days...
Impossible.
Let's say the Nimitz launches a full scale strike package of 12 A-6s,12 S-3s,24 A-7s each armed with 2 Harpoons.That's 96 Harpoons.Of the 96 launched,let's say 90 would reach the target (the other 6 would not due to technical glitches)There are 22 ships in the Jap task force.Let's say 6 Harpoons each for the 6 carriers and 2 battleships.Mind you the two battleships are not of the Yamato class.They were of the Hiei-class.Indeed,they were built as battle cruisers during WW1 and conveniently designated as battleships before WW2.They had weak armour so I think they will succumb to 6 Harpoon hits.Furthermore,Japanese damage control was pretty weak throughout WW2.The first strike would most likely take out all of the 6 carriers and 2 battleships.
48 Harpoons for the main body.Still got 48 Harpoons right? 1 Harpoon would be enough for each destroyer.Maybe 3 Harpoons for each of the 3 cruisers.Still 27 Harpoons left.Indeed,96 Harpoons for the first strike would a bit of an overkill!
Now would the strike force have the chance of launching their Harpoons? Yes.The maximum range of this ASM is round 60-70nm.Of course they would try to launch them nearer,say 40-50nm to increase the chances of a hit.IJN CAP patrols were usually positioned very close to the main body of carriers.Around 10-20nm.Hence,the Zeros would not have the chance of seeing what hit their mother ships.Furthermore,the Zero(maximum speed=300+ knots) was too slow to catch up with a Harpoon(cruising speed=650 knots),let alone shoot it down. When the Harpoons were inbound,the Jap ships would try to evade but in vain because the Harpoons were radar guided.
Another point you mentioned is that the Nimitz would run out of ammo before the Jap task force was totally destroyed. Impossible.Even without Harpoons,there were still countless bombs-laser guided and dumb alike.And you stated that the Jap task force would chase after the Nimitz. The Nimitz is a huge ship but she is no slow snail. She is capable of 35 knots.Yes,the Jap task force without the carriers and battleships was also capable of that speed,but do they have the endurance?[b] The Nimitz is nuclear powered mind you.Do you know she can cruise for 13 years straight without "refuelling"?[/b] -
Quite a lame scenario, what if aliens appeared and shot their disrupting ray.
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Well,the Nimitz can wipe out the Jap task force in 1 day,no joke. Come on,60 days?Originally posted by zenden9:Despite nuclear carrier can cruise 13yrs without refueling...Can it carry enough food for 5000 people for 13 yrs? Replenish still need to be done for every 60days...
After that the Nimitz will sail to Pearl Harbour.Imagine the shock on Kimmel and Short's faces when they see this weird monster of a ship sailing into Oahu. -
I'd say the Nimitz gets destroyed.
If a Nimitz was available in 1941, those radar guys on both the ship and Hawaii would just as likely be lulled into a sense of false security and dismiss the radar blips. The same scenario occurs, Jap planes obliterate Pearl Harbour and the capital ships.
If the Nimitz was available during the Battle of Midway, ah! that's an entirely different story. It'll be an American field day on a turkey shoot. -
Ah, but LOS would send the SAMs on the Nimitz in overtime when the first wave comes.Originally posted by huaichien:I'd say the Nimitz gets destroyed.
If a Nimitz was available in 1941, those radar guys on both the ship and Hawaii would just as likely be lulled into a sense of false security and dismiss the radar blips. The same scenario occurs, Jap planes obliterate Pearl Harbour and the capital ships.
If the Nimitz was available during the Battle of Midway, ah! that's an entirely different story. It'll be an American field day on a turkey shoot.
I'd wager two squadrons of Tomcats and Intruders would be able to take off and fend off the IJAF. -
Ah, but LOS would send the SAMs on the Nimitz in overtime when the first wave comes.Originally posted by huaichien:I'd say the Nimitz gets destroyed.
If a Nimitz was available in 1941, those radar guys on both the ship and Hawaii would just as likely be lulled into a sense of false security and dismiss the radar blips. The same scenario occurs, Jap planes obliterate Pearl Harbour and the capital ships.
If the Nimitz was available during the Battle of Midway, ah! that's an entirely different story. It'll be an American field day on a turkey shoot.
I'd wager two squadrons of Tomcats and Intruders would be able to take off and fend off the IJAF. -
Firstly, there is obviously no contest Nimizt CVN group will sure win.
The F-14 will only need to fly Mach 2+ into the Zero's formation or near them, and the turbulence will put them out of control. Harpoons will definately mission kill all the Japs ships, in which they have no defense against. Then slowly use A2A(possible) , PGMs to pick them off one by one... no contest.
Anyway, CVN are over-rated by some. Without replenishing ships, CVN by themselves wil have only 24 hrs worth of munition capabalities as shown in the serbian conflict, in a full assualt senario. On top of that, only 100+ strike sorties were achiveable in a day. They were able to launch a full strike team, but must remember that they have to be retrieve, and needs half an hour to reload and refuel and relaunch. You can't have many planes circulating to land, as they are fuel gustlers. and limited deck space for launching and landings. Doing this end to end with only about 50 m of free space in between.
But afew zeros will get thru, because there are simply too many zeros, and modern ships nowadays do not have AA guns clustered everywhere, only 4 CIWS at each corner of the CVN, with about 2,000 rounds each. even with evolved Sparrow RAM, how many can they shoot down - at most 21. afew will get thru... should one be able to drop a load on the deck and ignite JP5, well then Considered the CVN mission killed and their planes still in the sky, will be ditch, when out of fuel.
I say this is because, in the late 60's, a fire from the deck of an aircraft carrier nearly scuttled it, due to an accident where it caused a bomb to explode and ignite the fuel JP5 and spread below deck, inturn igniting other planes. more the 38 planes were destroyed, and each place have a basic load of JP5. They nealy lost the ship, now imagine if it was a war time senario -
You also have to take into consideration thatOriginally posted by Marco_Simone:Impossible.
Let's say the Nimitz launches a full scale strike package of 12 A-6s,12 S-3s,24 A-7s each armed with 2 Harpoons.That's 96 Harpoons.Of the 96 launched,let's say 90 would reach the target (the other 6 would not due to technical glitches)There are 22 ships in the Jap task force.Let's say 6 Harpoons each for the 6 carriers and 2 battleships.Mind you the two battleships are not of the Yamato class.They were of the Hiei-class.Indeed,they were built as battle cruisers during WW1 and conveniently designated as battleships before WW2.They had weak armour so I think they will succumb to 6 Harpoon hits.Furthermore,Japanese damage control was pretty weak throughout WW2.The first strike would most likely take out all of the 6 carriers and 2 battleships.
48 Harpoons for the main body.Still got 48 Harpoons right? 1 Harpoon would be enough for each destroyer.Maybe 3 Harpoons for each of the 3 cruisers.Still 27 Harpoons left.Indeed,96 Harpoons for the first strike would a bit of an overkill!
Now would the strike force have the chance of launching their Harpoons? Yes.The maximum range of this ASM is round 60-70nm.Of course they would try to launch them nearer,say 40-50nm to increase the chances of a hit.IJN CAP patrols were usually positioned very close to the main body of carriers.Around 10-20nm.Hence,the Zeros would not have the chance of seeing what hit their mother ships.Furthermore,the Zero(maximum speed=300+ knots) was too slow to catch up with a Harpoon(cruising speed=650 knots),let alone shoot it down. When the Harpoons were inbound,the Jap ships would try to evade but in vain because the Harpoons were radar guided.
Another point you mentioned is that the Nimitz would run out of ammo before the Jap task force was totally destroyed. Impossible.Even without Harpoons,there were still countless bombs-laser guided and dumb alike.And you stated that the Jap task force would chase after the Nimitz. The Nimitz is a huge ship but she is no slow snail. She is capable of 35 knots.Yes,the Jap task force without the carriers and battleships was also capable of that speed,but do they have the endurance? The Nimitz is nuclear powered mind you.Do you know she can cruise for 13 years straight without "refuelling"?
1.It takes a few minutes for each aircraft to be launched from the Nitmitz aircraft carrier as well
2.The japanese aircraft carrier also had scout planes
3. The japanese carriers wasn't a sitting duck
4. If the aircraft was launched before the Nitmitz launch , it could have been a different story.
Kamikaze planes would strike the nitmitz knowing that it would be a high value target(resembles an aircraft carrier) and it would go kaboom
Sea Sparrow missiles might be potent , but can it deal with a huge swarm of Zero Fighters? -
In this scenario , it really depends on who strike who first..
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i just bought the DVD and i mean just!!! 20 min ago.. will watch it tomolo i think.... hope it's nice...