BREAKING NEWS: THAILAND BUYS 12 SUKHOI SU-30s
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Dun forget the tense situation at the Malaysian - Thai borderOriginally posted by Delta 5:Yeah i heard it too... Should be true as Kuantan is home to the MiG-29s and Butterworth is where the F/A-18s are based. Kelantan is a logical choice for basing given the long range of the Su-30s which can be deployed to any area of conflict in Thailand or Indonesia. -
yes su-30s may look good, and sound good.
But it have its logistic problem - short airframe life, limited type of weapons ....
In a real war, so what you have a so call good fighter, that can out turn any planes. 1st you have to get intercept it first. If people play hide an seek, and hit other place and avoid confronting your planes all the time, they are useless.
Next even you have the most good fighter, so what you can outturn other planes, but in the end, you still cannot outturn the new generation of missiles.
Question is how good is a su-30s ground role compare to F-15 ? -
even before the official 'decision' was made, the whole damn industry knew where it was heading...politics and the fact that sg needs their carriers to dock here as often as possible...also the americans invited sg to participate in their new generation air craft project, not the f22....i think japan, isreal and korea are the other participants....
the us is now replacing the f15 with the f22 and sg is only getting the f15 in years to come.... -
not in modern aerial combat...Originally posted by tvdog:Isn't that the most crucial thing in airframe design? The avionics/electronics etc can be changed, right?
currently, imo, avionics and weapon load is the most important, as the Pk of BVR missiles increases greatly, and WVR combat will be dominated by high off boresight IR missiles + HMCS, avionics such as datalinks, and aerial combat doctrine + training would be the determining factor in any aerial engagement... -
The USAF has cut down the procurement of F22s, and they need attrition replacements for their F-15Cs.Contrary to what many believe, the F-15Ks and F-15SGs are radically different airframes from the F-15Cs, only visually almost similar.Originally posted by countdracula:even before the official 'decision' was made, the whole damn industry knew where it was heading...politics and the fact that sg needs their carriers to dock here as often as possible...also the americans invited sg to participate in their new generation air craft project, not the f22....i think japan, isreal and korea are the other participants....
the us is now replacing the f15 with the f22 and sg is only getting the f15 in years to come....
We are getting an aircraft that only Japan, Israel and Korea operate.
Not even the UK will get the F-22, so look at it in perspective. -
Source: MOSNEWS.COM
Su-30 multifunctional fighter / Photo from http://www.ecv56condor.com.ar/
Thailand Agrees to Buy Russian Fighter Jets in $500M Deal
Created: 19.12.2005 10:32 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 10:32 MSK
MosNews
The government of Thailand has agreed to a secret $500 million deal to buy Russian fighter jets and helicopters for the Royal Thai Air Force, the Bangkok Post reported citing Russian news agencies on Monday.
The reports made no mention of the Thai governmentÂ’s claim at home that this is to be a barter deal. Premier Thaksin Shinawatra also has never mentioned helicopters before, although he confirmed there might be a deal to obtain the 12 Sukhol-30 fighter jets, Thai media said.
“This is good news for Russia, we haven’t sold a single cartridge to Thailand,” enthused Konstantin Makiyenko, deputy head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, in comments for the Moscow Times Monday. “It also means that Russia has taken over the region — we have fighter jets in China, Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam and now Thailand.”
The Moscow media report said the deal is preliminary and was signed last week in Kuala Lumpur when President Vladimir Putin and Thaksin were both at the East Asia Summit in Kuala Lumpur. It said Russia has signed a preliminary agreement to sell $500 million worth of military aircraft to Thailand, and added it was “the first such deal with the traditional U.S. arms client.”
“We signed a memorandum for 12 Sukhoi-30MKMs during President Vladimir Putin’s visit [last week] to Malaysia,” a senior official at Irkut, the privately controlled maker of the Sukhoi fighter, was quoted as saying.
Thailand originally agreed to buy the jets last year but put off the deal after a tsunami killed hundreds of thousands of people in the region last December, said the Moscow reports.
The Irkut executive, who spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of negotiations, said the memorandum of understanding also included delivery of helicopters to Thailand, according to Moscow reports. “We have gone half the distance and expect to sign the contract in the first half of next year,” said Alexei Fyodorov, Irkut board chairman.
Makiyenko estimated that the deal would bring Russia at least $500 million. Rosoboronexport, the state arms sales agency, was not available for comment to the Russian media. -
Source: Forbes.com
AFX News Limited
Thailand to buy 500 mln usd of Russian Sukhoi fighters - report
12.19.2005, 10:13 AM
MOSCOW (AFX) - Russia has signed a preliminary agreement to sell a dozen Sukhoi fighter jets to Thailand, traditionally a US arms client, in an unprecedented deal worth 500 million dollars, The Moscow Times has reported.
The report quoted an unnamed senior official with Irkut, the manufacturer of the Sukhoi fighter, as saying that a memorandum of understanding on the purchase was signed during President Vladimir Putin's visit to Malaysia last week to attend an Asian summit.
A spokesman for Irkut contacted said that Russian and Thai officials discussed Russian military planes in Malaysia last week but declined to comment on the report that a preliminary deal had been reached.
The Moscow Times, an English-language daily aimed primarily at the expatriate community in Moscow, said Thailand had originally agreed to buy the jets last year but the deal was delayed because of the tsunami last December that killed hundreds of thousands of people in the region.
The Irkut official said the deal with Thailand on the jets also included delivery of Russian helicopters to Thailand.
The Interfax news agency separately reported that a definitive contract on the sale would be signed toward the middle of next year and that Bangkok would pay part of the bill in kind by delivering various products to Russia for resale on international markets.
[email protected]
afp/Joy -
in the ground role, perhaps all that can be said abt the sukhoi compared to the strike eagle, is tat the sukhoi is not combat proven.
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i was thinking of it too...Originally posted by coolant:Only half the price of F15SG?
maybe sg should also make such deals too... cheaper... -
The Thai just a signed MOU , not a contract.
In fact their original choice is either F-16C/D or Gripens which all demand cash , not barter trade.
Here a report from Thailand that said that they have yet to decide in the mist of some controversy:
http://www.manager.co.th/IHT/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9480000171408
In fact, the report said that the air force procurement committee had decided against the SU-30 because they were unsuitable and unsustainable.
Unsuitable: their whole inventory of US supply AAMs and AGMs could not be used by SU-30s unless expensive intergation work is done.
Another qn , could it be successfully intergrate with other western a/c??
Most likely not.
Unsustainable: Becos of the above , they need to have new inventory of AAM and AGM and new logistics support, this might even be more costly than paying cash for F-16/Gripen. -
L-39 Albators(sp) redux?
logistic n $$ problem..... -
Thailand denies it has agreed to buy Russian fighters
SUKHOTHAI, Thailand (AFP) Dec 20, 2005
Thailand on Tuesday denied media reports Bangkok had decided to buy 12 Russian fighter jets worth 500 million dollars.
"It's just a discussion, we haven't agreed on anything," Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra told reporters in between meetings of his cabinet in this city in northern Thailand.
"I think that it's a misunderstanding on the wording as there is no agreement to buy yet," he said.
The Moscow Times daily said Monday Russia had last week signed a preliminary agreement on the sale of the fighter jets to Thailand while the Interfax news agency also said that a definitive contract, involving barter trade, would be signed in mid-2006.
Defence Minister General Thammarak Isarangura Na Ayutthaya said the reports were "fabricated" but added Thailand was in talks over the purchase of jets with Russia, Sweden and the United States, the latter which had traditionally sold arms to Bangkok.
Thaksin said Thailand needed more technical details about a plan to possibly buy 12 SU-130 fighter jets, which was conditional on barter trade between Bangkok and Moscow.
"We have to continue our discussions and we have discussed in general terms that if we wanted to buy, we'd buy 12 of them by barter trade," he said.
"There would be no broker and if there is any discount it should be in the form of extra equipment coming with the jets," he added.
If the Russian purchase is agreed, Thailand would also upgrade its American-made fleet of F-16s, Thaksin said.
He said he believed Thailand would not have problems with the United States were Bangkok to buy Russian jets or aircraft from other countries.
"It's our right to buy from any country, and we have a right to buy from various countries," the premier said, adding the government would make a final decision on the purchase by the end of the first quarter of next year. -
Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and air force commander Chalit Pukpasuk yesterday denied a Moscow Times report that the air force had agreed to purchase a squadron of jet fighters, worth US$500 million, from a Russian manufacturer. Mr Thaksin said in Sukhothai yesterday that Thailand was not committed to buying SU-30 jets from Russia but admitted that the two countries had already signed a letter of discussion on the issue.
He said the two countries needed to discuss more details and defended the letter as a normal practice to record what had been discussed.
ACM Chalit said the air force was keeping its options open and no decision was likely to be made before March or April next year.
``We're not only considering Russia's SU-30 MKs, but also Sweden's JAS 39 Gripens, the US-made F-16 C/Ds, and the F-18 jet fighters, the planned procurement of which had already been scrapped,'' he said.
ACM Chalit said the new squadron would replace the air force's ageing F-5Es.
``The new planes must be multi-task aircraft that can support army and naval operations,'' he said.
The air force would select the model and forward its decision for government consideration. The decision was likely to be made in March or April next year.
``The prime minister will not impose his ideas on us. I think he knows its best to let the air force handle the matter,'' said the air force chief.
Mr Thaksin and ACM Chalit made the comments after a security analyst, Panitan Wattanayagor, called on the government to clarify if Thailand was planning a military and political shift from the United States, its long-time ally, to Russia.
The call from Mr Panitan, a political science lecturer at Chulalongkorn University, came after the Moscow Times reported on Monday that Russia had signed a preliminary agreement to sell US$500 million worth of SU-30 MK military aircraft to Thailand. The signing took place last week in Malaysia during President Vladimir Putin's visit, it said.
Mr Thaksin said the newspaper report was inaccurate.
Mr Putin, who was in Malaysia for an Asean summit, also witnessed the signing of a visa exemption agreement between Thailand and Russia. The deal makes Thailand the first Asean country to be party to such an agreement with Russia.
According to the Moscow Times, Thailand originally agreed to buy Russian jets last year but put off the deal after the tsunami hit the region on Dec 26.
An executive of Irkut, manufacturer of SU-30 fighter jets, was quoted by the newspaper as saying that a memorandum of understanding also included an offer to deliver a number of helicopters to Thailand, a ``normal bonus'' Moscow had offered in its deals with Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam and China.
Mr Panitan said the prices of the Russian jets might be competitive but they could cause maintenance problems since the air force lacked the expertise or know-how on Russian aircraft technology.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/20Dec2005_news10.php -
I heard that nowaday the russian are gradually improving from its discredited reputation for having an atrocious logistic support.
in fact i m more concern about hows SAF gonna react to this issue? -
I'm sure the SAF will have seen this coming.And if we look at it objectively, we are still slightly ahead in our displayed prowess, which is always the case since independance.Originally posted by Orcishwarrior:I heard that nowaday the russian are gradually improving from its discredited reputation for having an atrocious logistic support.
in fact i m more concern about hows SAF gonna react to this issue?
However, we do see the slight shift in attitudes towards buying arms from Russia or ex-Soviet states.the Igla and the 2.75in rockets are good examples. -
Hmmm what kind of rockets did the SAF buyOriginally posted by LazerLordz:I'm sure the SAF will have seen this coming.And if we look at it objectively, we are still slightly ahead in our displayed prowess, which is always the case since independance.
However, we do see the slight shift in attitudes towards buying arms from Russia or ex-Soviet states.the Igla and the 2.75in rockets are good examples.
For aircraft or infantry? -
Igla MANPADS?Originally posted by ceecookie:did Singapore have any arm deals wif Russia? -
heard that those not the only ones!! they had some other secret deals between ex-soviet union nations.
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Deals? What kinda deals? What kinda stuff we bought?
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Tu-22M3 and Tu-160 bombers, AS-16 ALCMs, Oscar II SSGNs, Udaloy DDGs plus a dozen SS-19 ICBMs?Originally posted by Shotgun:Deals? What kinda deals? What kinda stuff we bought? -
Here something abt Indon's Sukhoi:
Dec 20 23:35
Indonesia to Check Its Sukhoi's Airworthiness
Jakarta (ANTARA News) - The ministry of defence will soon check the airworthiness of four Sukhoi jet fighters of the Indonesian Air Force particularly for the defence of Indonesia`s territorial air space, a member of cabinet said.
"We will soon check the four Russian-built Sukhoi fighters to ward off external threats," Juwono Sudarsono, minister of defence said after giving a briefing on the 2005 territorial coordination meeting of the Indonesian Defence Force (TNI) at the Military headquarters in Cilangkap on Tuesday.
He said that the check is aimed to increase the airworthiness and combat preparedness of the SU-27SK and SU-30MK jet fighters.......
According to him, in each jet fighter squadron, one is ready on call, one for reserve, one undergoing maintenance and the one in training.
"This also happens to the four Sukhoi jet fighters. So one fighter is still undergoing major maintenance because its flying hours have reached a maximum," Sagoem said.
He also said that the jet fighters need more maintenance than jet fighters manufactured by the West, at a ratio of 3 to 1.....
http://www.antara.co.id/en/seenws/index.php?id=7723
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Major maintenance so fast???
The engine hrs maintenance must be very low, i.e. more frequent maintenance!!!!
You pay half the price , you get half the worth!!! -
Russian Jets do tend to more taxing on maintenance... hmmm I wonder why.
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is due mainly for on front war mission thats why of mass production and low maintainance.......Originally posted by Shotgun:Russian Jets do tend to more taxing on maintenance... hmmm I wonder why. -
Soverenmy Class and Kilo Class as wellOriginally posted by Delta 5:Tu-22M3 and Tu-160 bombers, AS-16 ALCMs, Oscar II SSGNs, Udaloy DDGs plus a dozen SS-19 ICBMs? 
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Lol! Might as well just buy over their entire black sea fleet?Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:Soverenmy Class and Kilo Class as well