RSAF F-16D Block 52+ and F-16D Block 52
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what are the differences between our Block52+ models and the standard Block 52?
Obvious differences are the CFTs.. but how about the radar? i've read that Greek and Israeli block 52+ and F-16Is respectively received the APG-68(v)9 radar with them. Among the benefits are a 30% increase in detection range. Do our 52+ models come with this or are they still the APG-68(v)5 model of it?
Do we really need the F-15T? couldn't we have settled with larger numbers of F-16E/Fs? after all, maintanence would be easier, the capabilities similar, and the only thing is that we would lack a long range strike capability... -
Perhaps the LR strike capability is what we want..Originally posted by sgFish:what are the differences between our Block52+ models and the standard Block 52?
Obvious differences are the CFTs.. but how about the radar? i've read that Greek and Israeli block 52+ and F-16Is respectively received the APG-68(v)9 radar with them. Among the benefits are a 30% increase in detection range. Do our 52+ models come with this or are they still the APG-68(v)5 model of it?
Do we really need the F-15T? couldn't we have settled with larger numbers of F-16E/Fs? after all, maintanence would be easier, the capabilities similar, and the only thing is that we would lack a long range strike capability... -
Payload baby... payload....
There is only so much a single PW229 can do.
2 GE129s can haul a lot more pain under the strike eagle's belly. -
well, for the price of the 15T, wouldn't we be better of getting more F-16D Block52+? or maybe even the 16E/F block 60. we'd have more aircraft doing that... just a thought.Originally posted by Shotgun:Payload baby... payload....
There is only so much a single PW229 can do.
2 GE129s can haul a lot more pain under the strike eagle's belly. -
2 f-16 flying together their radar is still the same range. Also both add together carry the same load as 1 f-15. Next both f-16 will still be at the same range and speed of a F-16.Originally posted by sgFish:well, for the price of the 15T, wouldn't we be better of getting more F-16D Block52+? or maybe even the 16E/F block 60. we'd have more aircraft doing that... just a thought.
F-15, 1 plane carry more weapon, more radar range & longer range. It is so much powerful and fast - using its brutal power, it is able to get out of trouble.
Also given short notice in war, it is not the number of planes you have, but the number of planes with amount of weapons you can get into the air. Imagine, 2 F-15 can have the range to hit 2 target without returning to base, for 2 f-16, possible they may have to hit 1 target then return to re-arm. -
Well, besides the payload, there is also the matter of range. How long the legs of the Strike Eagle compared to the Falcon.
The Viper IS a significantly smaller jet with smaller fuel capacity, EVEN with CFTs. Every hardpoint u hook a External Fuel Tank on, is equiv to absent firepower.
For viper sim fans, its a common problem faced. In a 4 plane flight SEAD run, do we want to carry 2 external fuel tanks, + 1 ALQ 131, together with our HARMs.
To do that, means, we would only have 2 HARMs, 4 A2A missiles. Not much of a SUPPRESSION of enemy air defence if they decide to shut down their radars.
But if we don't carry the extra fuel, we can carry 2 HARMs, and on top of that 6 CBUs to hit launchers as well. Problem then, is running out of gas.
So the Strike eagle is part of the solution to this problem. It carries more payload, hell lot more than the F-16. AND it has range. In otherwords, it can easily carry the above mentioned VIPER SEAD load as well as more fuel. -
About radar range, wouldn't the E-2's radar + datalinks be sufficient for BVR targeting of AAMs?
Also given short notice in war, it is not the number of planes you have, but the number of planes with amount of weapons you can get into the air. Imagine, 2 F-15 can have the range to hit 2 target without returning to base, for 2 f-16, possible they may have to hit 1 target then return to re-arm.
isn't the F-16 easier and cheaper to maintain than the 15? hence if we had gotten more 16s instead we could have 4 F-16s hitting 2 targets on separate sorties.Well, besides the payload, there is also the matter of range. How long the legs of the Strike Eagle compared to the Falcon.
well, to me, the range is the only advantage i see for getting the 15SG instead of more 16s.
The Viper IS a significantly smaller jet with smaller fuel capacity, EVEN with CFTs. Every hardpoint u hook a External Fuel Tank on, is equiv to absent firepower.To do that, means, we would only have 2 HARMs, 4 A2A missiles. Not much of a SUPPRESSION of enemy air defence if they decide to shut down their radars.
if the presence of HARM armed vipers can scare enemy SAM operators to shut their radars while the strike aircraft hit their targets, wouldn't suppression be achieved already? of course, the best form of suppression is always destruction
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the F15T for Singapore is now known as F15SG
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Well like one of the forumnites mentioned, with SAMs these days becoming Electronically scanned, it might only take a brief second to search the sky, and then standby the radar. Combined with active radar homing SAMs, the good ol HARM's wont be as useful anymore.
Well, what if your E-2 is down? You can't build a defensive system or ring all hingeing on 1 crucial component and hope that it wont get taken down. 2ndly, to fire a BVR missile like the AMRAAM, u need to lock on to the target first. What if you can't lock on due to jamming? I've ever tried going against SU-30MKKs in sims and they have jammers that can't be burnt through until less than 15 miles out. The F-16's radar ain't powerful enough to burn some of the active jamming these days. And believe me, getting caught in a knife fight with Su-30s is a Big No-No.
Jammers reduces BVR capabilities. Unless we got some AMRAAM C7s that have HOJ, then different story.
F-16, single engine, small plane. Su-30mkk big aircraft, 2 engines. Assuming BOTH fires and off-boresight weapon at each other, the F-16 if surive, would flame out, and pilot have to eject. Su-30 still have 1 more engine to make it back, IF it survives.
Like i said, the range advantage is not just the legs, but also the radar's range. What range the radar is capable of burning through jammers. Big planes tend to have more powerful radars too. -
Buying more planes is not always the answer, as you have limited runways.
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Its better to be limited by runways than to be limited by the number of aircraft. =D
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thi is so illogicalOriginally posted by Shotgun:Its better to be limited by runways than to be limited by the number of aircraft. =D
what if runway is destroy how do you deploy them -
Repair the runway lor. Its easier to repair runways than aircraft.
Its even more illogical to have a lot of runways but no planes to take off from them right? -
It's possible to speculate that the F-35 contract which we are considering as a possbility, may include the evaluation of the VSTOL version?
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i dont really put the hopes on JSF yet...there is some issues which not solved yet......news even say they may want to scrap the ctol ver.....Originally posted by LazerLordz:It's possible to speculate that the F-35 contract which we are considering as a possbility, may include the evaluation of the VSTOL version? -
even if it happens,it won't be anytime soonOriginally posted by LazerLordz:It's possible to speculate that the F-35 contract which we are considering as a possbility, may include the evaluation of the VSTOL version? -
Yes.The CTOL version is quite shaky..but the last I heard, the VSTOL versions are still alive.Originally posted by duotiga83:i dont really put the hopes on JSF yet...there is some issues which not solved yet......news even say they may want to scrap the ctol ver..... -
The VSTOLs will definitely have to survive. The marines need them to replace the harriers on their LSTs.
Oh yeah, i went to try out the BVRAAM engagement between Su-30MKKs / Adder vs F-16 / AMRAAMs in the sim.
Results was a 2:1 kill ratio........ in favor of the flankers. HOHO!
2 F-16's splashed for every 1 Su-30mkk. No Jamming.
The problem was with the length of time it takes for the AMRAAM to go autonomous. By the time it goes autonomous, the F-16 has barely seconds to try to defeat the incoming Adder.
The Adder also has (in the sim) a slight range advantage. AMRAAMs frequently didnt manage to KILL the Su-30s. Crippled yes, killed no. -
don't have to wait for the AMRAAM to go pitbull before breaking lock.Originally posted by Shotgun:The VSTOLs will definitely have to survive. The marines need them to replace the harriers on their LSTs.
Oh yeah, i went to try out the BVRAAM engagement between Su-30MKKs / Adder vs F-16 / AMRAAMs in the sim.
Results was a 2:1 kill ratio........ in favor of the flankers. HOHO!
2 F-16's splashed for every 1 Su-30mkk. No Jamming.
The problem was with the length of time it takes for the AMRAAM to go autonomous. By the time it goes autonomous, the F-16 has barely seconds to try to defeat the incoming Adder.
The Adder also has (in the sim) a slight range advantage. AMRAAMs frequently didnt manage to KILL the Su-30s. Crippled yes, killed no.
wad sim you playing? -
Agreed. Theoretically, the F-16s can fire off the amraams and then break lock to evade the incoming adders.
The only reason why the kill ratio was 2:1 was that the F-16s waited for the pitbull before turning to evade. Without it, it could have been worse. -
oh...why worse? in falcon4AF when i 1v1 an Su-37 with BVR weapons, i always get a kill ratio slightly above 1 to 1 by breaking lock before pitbullOriginally posted by Shotgun:Agreed. Theoretically, the F-16s can fire off the amraams and then break lock to evade the incoming adders.
The only reason why the kill ratio was 2:1 was that the F-16s waited for the pitbull before turning to evade. Without it, it could have been worse. -
Hmm, I ran it on a 4 v 4. Using hit n run tactics... still got raped by Adders.
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if 1 f-16 has a major problem, it could affect the whole fleet of f-16s in sg, that is why it's good to have different types of aircraft.Originally posted by sgFish:isn't the F-16 easier and cheaper to maintain than the 15? hence if we had gotten more 16s instead we could have 4 F-16s hitting 2 targets on separate sorties -
oh. maybe the AI isn't really good ehOriginally posted by Shotgun:Hmm, I ran it on a 4 v 4. Using hit n run tactics... still got raped by Adders.
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Perhaps. But honestlys, the chances of defeating a highly manueverable missile such as the adder is very slim. Only hope is survivability.
Oh btw, does anyone know if the Archer has a 2 hit probability? I swear I dodged the archer once, and it came around at me a 2nd time....