Fantastic revisionist book on the Battle of Midway
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Just bought this revisionist history of the Battle of Midway.Only one word-brillant and awesome.It includes many technical stuff never revealed before such as IJN carrier doctrine-highly recommended for the hardcore naval buff.It is also fairly sympathetic to Nagumo and is highly critical of Yamamato.
It challenges 8 well known myths of the battle
1)The Americans triumphed against overwhelming odds at the Battle of Midway.
2)The Aleutians Operation was conceived by Admiral Yamamoto, the commander in chief of Combined Fleet, as a diversion designed to lure the American fleet out of Pearl Harbor.
2)During the transit to Midway, Admiral Yamamoto withheld important intelligence information from Admiral Nagumo, the operational commander of the carrier striking force. As a result, Nagumo was in the dark concerning the nature of the threat facing him.
3)Had the Japanese implemented a two-phase reconnaissance search on the morning of 4 June, they would have succeeded in locating the American fleet in time to win the battle.
4)The late launch of cruiser Tone's No. 4 scout plane doomed Admiral Nagumo to defeat in the battle.
5)Had Admiral Nagumo not decided to rearm his aircraft with land-attack weapons, he would have been in a position to attack the Americans as soon as they were discovered.
6)The sacrifice of USS Hornet's Torpedo Squadron Eight was not in vain, since it pulled the Japanese combat air patrol fighters down to sea level, thereby allowing the American dive-bombers to attack at 1020.
The book reached my place yesterday and I can't bring myself to put it down! So far I've read 200+pages of the book,another 300+ to go!
The reviews at Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1574889230/ref=pd_ys_iyr1/102-2514352-6399338?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155
The book's website
http://www.shatteredswordbook.com/
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We know this already.
1)The Americans triumphed against overwhelming odds at the Battle of Midway.2)The Aleutians Operation was conceived by Admiral Yamamoto, the commander in chief of Combined Fleet, as a diversion designed to lure the American fleet out of Pearl Harbor.
We know this too.2)During the transit to Midway, Admiral Yamamoto withheld important intelligence information from Admiral Nagumo, the operational commander of the carrier striking force. As a result, Nagumo was in the dark concerning the nature of the threat facing him.
This is news!3)Had the Japanese implemented a two-phase reconnaissance search on the morning of 4 June, they would have succeeded in locating the American fleet in time to win the battle.
Yup already known.4)The late launch of cruiser Tone's No. 4 scout plane doomed Admiral Nagumo to defeat in the battle.
Ok, this was left out.5)Had Admiral Nagumo not decided to rearm his aircraft with land-attack weapons, he would have been in a position to attack the Americans as soon as they were discovered.
In fact, history states that he was pressured by his bold subordinate Cpt Yamaguchi to proceed with the re-arming.6)The sacrifice of USS Hornet's Torpedo Squadron Eight was not in vain, since it pulled the Japanese combat air patrol fighters down to sea level, thereby allowing the American dive-bombers to attack at 1020.
Yes, the USN have long since glorified Lt Comdr John Waldon's doomed devestators. And it was generally accepted that their determined but failed sortie distracted the Zeros on CAP to sea level, allowing the Dauntless Dive bombers to take out Kaga, Akagi and Soryu in quick succession.
You can actually get all the facts including eyewitness interviews if you had access to a little known set of 52 magazines called 'Images of War: The real story of WWII' -
Oh yeah...it was Midway that led Raymond A Sprunce to the fast track to full admiral.
Prior to Midway he was an unknown quality.
His decision to launch (at extreme combat range) a full strength assault on the Japs form hornet and enterprise was a huge throw of the dice but yielded the double 6 he was hoping for. -
I read in Wikipedia that the Americans managed to take out Kaga, Akagi and Soryu within six minutes.Originally posted by BillyBong:Yes, the USN have long since glorified Lt Comdr John Waldon's doomed devestators. And it was generally accepted that their determined but failed sortie distracted the Zeros on CAP to sea level, allowing the Dauntless Dive bombers to take out Kaga, Akagi and Soryu in quick succession.
You can actually get all the facts including eyewitness interviews if you had access to a little known set of 52 magazines called 'Images of War: The real story of WWII'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway -
6 min is rather tall....i think the pilots were keeping one eye on their fuel gauges and not their watches. Besides, i don't think anyone had timing the bomb runs in their mind when they whacked the japs...i'd venture to think they were yelling:Originally posted by fudgester:I read in Wikipedia that the Americans managed to take out Kaga, Akagi and Soryu within six minutes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway
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quote:
1)The Americans triumphed against overwhelming odds at the Battle of Midway.
We know this already.
quote:
2)The Aleutians Operation was conceived by Admiral Yamamoto, the commander in chief of Combined Fleet, as a diversion designed to lure the American fleet out of Pearl Harbor.
We know this too.
quote:
2)During the transit to Midway, Admiral Yamamoto withheld important intelligence information from Admiral Nagumo, the operational commander of the carrier striking force. As a result, Nagumo was in the dark concerning the nature of the threat facing him.
This is news!
quote:
3)Had the Japanese implemented a two-phase reconnaissance search on the morning of 4 June, they would have succeeded in locating the American fleet in time to win the battle.
Yup already known.
quote:
4)The late launch of cruiser Tone's No. 4 scout plane doomed Admiral Nagumo to defeat in the battle.
Ok, this was left out.
quote:
5)Had Admiral Nagumo not decided to rearm his aircraft with land-attack weapons, he would have been in a position to attack the Americans as soon as they were discovered.
In fact, history states that he was pressured by his bold subordinate Cpt Yamaguchi to proceed with the re-arming.
quote:
6)The sacrifice of USS Hornet's Torpedo Squadron Eight was not in vain, since it pulled the Japanese combat air patrol fighters down to sea level, thereby allowing the American dive-bombers to attack at 1020.
Yes, the USN have long since glorified Lt Comdr John Waldon's doomed devestators. And it was generally accepted that their determined but failed sortie distracted the Zeros on CAP to sea level, allowing the Dauntless Dive bombers to take out Kaga, Akagi and Soryu in quick succession.
You can actually get all the facts including eyewitness interviews if you had access to a little known set of 52 magazines called 'Images of War: The real story of WWII'
hey pal, you read carefully the first thread.The 8 points which you say you already know-all of them are myths or need more clarification.This books debunks all these 8 points.
So, eg, the Aleutians Operation or AL is not actually part of Operation MO(Midway) but is another entirely different thing.So learnt something new today? -
The Americans banged their planes onto the japanese aircraft carriers
How brave -
Thanks Marco... It seems like a good read next to my Fuchida & Okumiya's Midway...
Billy... Read them lines. I also felt like calling you a berk. Are you one?
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Another thing-this book argues that most of the myths about Midway were started by Fuchida's book.Eg all of us read about the Jap carriers about to launch their bombers when the Americans struck right? In other words,the flight decks were full of planes ready to launch.The book says this is rubbish-there were no bombers at all on the flight back when the US dive bombers attacked,only a few Zeros ready for the next Combat Air Patrol detail.Originally posted by Si Geena:Thanks Marco... It seems like a good read next to my Fuchida & Okumiya's Midway...
Billy... Read them lines. I also felt like calling you a berk. Are you one?
In other words, the painting below is historically inaccurate.
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What's a berk?Originally posted by Si Geena:Thanks Marco... It seems like a good read next to my Fuchida & Okumiya's Midway...
Billy... Read them lines. I also felt like calling you a berk. Are you one?
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Oh well, i was kinda a WWII fanatic when in my youthful bespectacled days...MIDWAY held special significance for me coz it was THE turning point for the USN against the almighty japs.Originally posted by Marco_Simone:quote:
hey pal, you read carefully the first thread.The 8 points which you say you already know-all of them are myths or need more clarification.This books debunks all these 8 points. So, eg, the Aleutians Operation or AL is not actually part of Operation MO(Midway) but is another entirely different thing.So learnt something new today?
So i pretty much collected 47 of the 52 copies of Images of WAR...still have 'em stashed somewhere... -
Marco... Is this available at Borders or Kino yet? Or did you have to special delivery it?
Please say the former. -
I placed an advanced order way back in July when news of its impending release in Nov came out-I got it from Amazon.Over S$60,hardcover and over 600 pages of really solid stuff..really worth it.Originally posted by Si Geena:Marco... Is this available at Borders or Kino yet? Or did you have to special delivery it?
Please say the former.
By the way, I have skimmed through the entire book! Will reread it a second time!
Another thing, the authors of the book are the creators of this superb webby on the IJN
http://www.combinedfleet.com/kaigun.htm -
For those interested in the pre-war history of the IJN.I recommend
Kaigun:Strategy, Tactics, and Technology in the Imperial Japanese Navy, 1887-1941
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0870211927/qid=1134034807/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-2514352-6399338?n=507846&s=books&v=glance
Sunburst: The Rise of Japanese Naval Air Power, 1909-1941
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1557504326/qid=1134034807/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-2514352-6399338?n=507846&s=books&v=glance
Again very solid stuff.The latter is available in National Library. -
Thanks Marco on the head's up.
I've gone through the Combined Fleet webby and it does contain alot of useful information. Anyway, I checked out the games portion and saw them reccomending "Carriers at War" which is a very very old game based on naval battles, in fact, mainly naval carrier battles.
You know what, I've downloaded that and played it and it's really good fun. Nothing better than getting an unexpected enemy sortie when my CAP is on deck refueling... -
If you Pacific War buffs are interested in a strategic simulation of the 1941-5 war, check out War in the Pacific. Great game, tons of details. Very steep learning curve though.
http://www.matrixgames.com/games/game.asp?gid=294
Wonderful game if you have the time and attention to detail -
Well Marco, can you tell us what really happened during the battle, according to the authors?
Anyway, regarding Torpedo 8's sacrifice. While they did draw CAP Zeros and flaks down to the surface, a 'proper' strike, where dive-bombers and torpedo bombers attack simultaneously would also have the same effect with defenders' attention divided between the sky and the sea. -
Dude... I saw that Kino could bring it in for me at US$35... I won't jump in till you tell me more stuff about it!Originally posted by Marco_Simone:I placed an advanced order way back in July when news of its impending release in Nov came out-I got it from Amazon.Over S$60,hardcover and over 600 pages of really solid stuff..really worth it.
Come on! Make me green with envy... -
In retrospect, Nagumo should not have allowed all his Zeros down to sea level to shoot down the TBDs. The Japanese knew what/how many aircraft each US carrier embarked, so if TBDs were attacking, the Dauntlesses could NOT be far behind. They should have allocated sufficient Zeros to CAP at higher altitudes. That might have saved them from annihilation.Originally posted by khyron1:Anyway, regarding Torpedo 8's sacrifice. While they did draw CAP Zeros and flaks down to the surface, a 'proper' strike, where dive-bombers and torpedo bombers attack simultaneously would also have the same effect with defenders' attention divided between the sky and the sea.
Then again, I disagree vehemently with Yamamoto's dispersal of his forces, especially the carriers. Kido Butai's four fleet carriers (Akagi, Soryu, Kaga and Hiryu) had about 96 Zeros in total. No more than 50 were performing CAP at any one time, since the others had to escort their Vals and Kates to hit Midway. 50 Zeros to protect such a large inviting target?!
I'm a strong advocate of force concentration. The Aleutians maneuver was a big waste of time and resources. Had Yamamoto grouped Ryujo, Junyo, Hosho and Zuiho together with Kido Butai, Midway would most likely have resulted in a stunning Japanese victory. That said, had he waited until 5 or 6 fleet carriers were available and used them for the earlier Coral Sea operation, Shokaku and Zuikaku might've been available for the Midway operation.
The USN would've been dealt her gravest defeat in history. However, given US industrial might (almost TEN times that of Japan's), this would've merely postponed the inevitable, albeit by many many months ...