RSAF Apaches are coming home! --- Next year.
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TWENTYNINE PALMS, California: The first batch of RSAF's Apache attack helicopters will take to Singapore's skies early next year.
They will make their way from the US, where the training squadron is now based.
The Apaches made their debut at an integrated SAF exercise codenamed Forging Sabre in California.
There was no doubt the Apaches were the centrepiece of the exercise.
They integrated well with the commandos, artillery, and their airforce counterparts, the UAVs and F-16s.
The Apache attack helicopters have come a long way since their purchase was announced in 1999, and should reach full operational capability in two years.
One thing's for sure -- they stole the show at the exercise in California, especially with their Hellfire missiles.
And the pilots undergoing training in the US are looking forward to showcasing the helicopter to Singaporeans.
Said Captain Ang Heng Keong, Apache pilot, RSAF Peace Vanguard Detachment, "I am feeling excited going back and flying the Apache and I guess when the aircraft takes to the skies a lot of Singaporeans will look up and say, that's the Apache. I feel glad going back with the aircraft."
The Apache is one of the most sophisticated and lethal combat helicopters in the world.
Thanks to its Longbow radar, it can pick out more than 1,000 targets, rate the 16 most dangerous ones and relay the information instantly to other Apaches through a data link.
The combat platform aside, the Apaches are also expected to add glamour to the airforce, especially for the helicopter family.
LTC Christopher Wong, Commander, RSAF Peace Vanguard Detachment, "Just like what the F-16s have done for the fighters, this time it will probably do it for the helicopter community also."
Eight helicopters are currently being used for training by the Peace Vanguard detachment in Marana, Arizona.
Another 12 Apaches are due to be delivered next year, bringing Singapore's total Apache strength to 20. - CNA /ct
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/180580/1/.html -
can't wait to see them...
any idea which base will they be based? my guess is sembawang. i hope i'll be paya lebar then i can see them everyday.
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Just one interesting question I have about the Hellfires.... RSAF seems to have bought the laser version rather than the millimeter RF version. Wonder if they will consider buying some RF Hellfires given that some of the Apaches have the Longbow radar.
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will all 20 be longbow equipped ? ...
or just the initial 8 ? ... -
there's speculation that all 20 will be equipped with longbow radar, first 8 definitely have longbow,which can search an area of 50 sq km in less than six seconds. The 2nd batch of 12 apaches will be equipped with the latest Arrowhead M-TADS/PNVS...visit the other forum for more info on our SAF's apaches>>http://militarynuts.com/index.php?showtopic=629&st=15
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should buy more of these tank busters...
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I think 20 Apaches balance out the number of PT91 MAF is getting, 40 will put SAF in a commanding position.
Alternatively, RSAF can consider buying something cheaper like the AH-1Z or Eurocopter Tiger
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The AH-1Z is a capable enough platform to replace the AS550 Fennec light attack choppers.Originally posted by Joe Black:I think 20 Apaches balance out the number of PT91 MAF is getting, 40 will put SAF in a commanding position.
Alternatively, RSAF can consider buying something cheaper like the AH-1Z or Eurocopter Tiger -
The way our sunday times glorifed the Apaches, make you wonder whether these writers know what they're writing or simply copying articles they read from other places.
Someone should tell them that over 4 Apaches were grounded by 'small arms fire' during the 2nd Iraq war...get it?
SMALL ARMS FIRE BROUGHT DOWN YOU GODLY APACHES!
*phew...had to let it out* -
well ... if the current trend is anything to go by ... methinks further purchases will be more apaches .... the SAF is trying to cut down the number of different platforms .... simplify logistics and training eh ...Originally posted by LazerLordz:The AH-1Z is a capable enough platform to replace the AS550 Fennec light attack choppers. -
well, not everyone is impressed. See ST forum today:Originally posted by BillyBong:The way our sunday times glorifed the Apaches, make you wonder whether these writers know what they're writing or simply copying articles they read from other places.
Someone should tell them that over 4 Apaches were grounded by 'small arms fire' during the 2nd Iraq war...get it?
SMALL ARMS FIRE BROUGHT DOWN YOU GODLY APACHES!
*phew...had to let it out*
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/forum/story/0,5562,355482,00.html?
More in-depth analysis of third generation SAF
ALLOW me to commend Mr Felix Soh on his compelling report ('Enter the 3G SAF'; ST, Nov 23) on the conclusion of Exercise Forging Sabre. The accompanying graphic conveyed all the exciting elements of a Tom Clancy thriller.
Singaporeans should be interested in the further ramifications of this exercise in particular, and the transformation of the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) into a '3G SAF' in general. I trust Mr Soh, on his return from the Mojave Desert exercise area, will elaborate on this defining moment in a commentary that fills the gaps in his understandably 'action-oriented' news report.
Among the gaps:
The push and pull factors that have led the SAF to pursue transformation, sometimes called the 'Revolution in Military Affairs'
The significance of this, especially given that in the Asia-Pacific for some time to come, only the United States, Japan, Australia and Singapore will be thus capable - and even then, within a spectrum of capabilities with the US the most highly capable
The likelihood, contrary to what some critics may say, that such a 'coalition of the technologically willing' will be a force for stability in the Asia-Pacific
Finally, the caveat that the exercise just concluded is, for the good reason of testing networking among various high-tech elements, unrealistic in that the 'enemy' (apparently a non-3G armoured unit unsupported by other elements) was a lamb led to slaughter!
Singaporeans should be aware that if ever the full capacity of our 3G SAF is called into combat, it may face an equally 3G enemy.
Khoo How San -
Never believe stories told by the Iraqi resistance forces... Not to mention that the press of any country is known to blow up small matters.Originally posted by BillyBong:The way our sunday times glorifed the Apaches, make you wonder whether these writers know what they're writing or simply copying articles they read from other places.
Someone should tell them that over 4 Apaches were grounded by 'small arms fire' during the 2nd Iraq war...get it?
SMALL ARMS FIRE BROUGHT DOWN YOU GODLY APACHES!
*phew...had to let it out*
Many opponents of the USA like to spin tall tales about how they can bring them down, such as an Iraqi with an AK-47 shooting down an Apache for that matter, or China claiming it can destroy US Carrier battle Groups. Not that I am a supporter of the USA but can these countries at least make viable claims. A SA-10 or SA-15 system shooting down an Apache would perhaps be more believable.
The truth is that Apaches are immune to small arms fire of up to 7.62mm, resistant against 12.7mm fire and even with a 23/25/30 mm AA Gun bringing down a heavily armoured Apache is no mean feat. -
sembawang better, chinooks, puma, huey and one very light one that i do not know the name. Addition of apache makes it more complete over the skys in the north.
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erm...think you better watch more CNN then...the downing of the choppers was covered by their own media, not iraqis or comical ali...Originally posted by Delta 5:Never believe stories told by the Iraqi resistance forces... Not to mention that the press of any country is known to blow up small matters.
Many opponents of the USA like to spin tall tales about how they can bring them down, such as an Iraqi with an AK-47 shooting down an Apache for that matter, or China claiming it can destroy US Carrier battle Groups. Not that I am a supporter of the USA but can these countries at least make viable claims. A SA-10 or SA-15 system shooting down an Apache would perhaps be more believable.
The truth is that Apaches are immune to small arms fire of up to 7.62mm, resistant against 12.7mm fire and even with a 23/25/30 mm AA Gun bringing down a heavily armoured Apache is no mean feat.
And yes....intense small arms fire can down Apaches...never let their so-called invulnerability go to your head. All it takes is a lucky shot. -
The Hueys based in Sembawang have been decommissioned earlier this year. The only Hueys left in RSAF service are 5 or 6 based in Brunei, which will be similarly decommissioned by this year's end. I hope the RSAF would buy new utility and transport helos soon, either the UH-60L Blackhawk or the NH-90TTH.Originally posted by AF2005:sembawang better, chinooks, puma, huey and one very light one that i do not know the name. Addition of apache makes it more complete over the skys in the north.
The light helos you mentioned were probably Fennec helos, which are used for training and AOP missions. They will be replaced by 10 new EC120 helos from 2006 onwards. -
blackhawks, a good addition. i can't wait to see all of them training together in the skies.
Sometimes see chinooks on one side landing,take off and circling. And puma on the other side. looks great. with apache coming in , even better. -
well ... I have two CNN channels on my cable TV right now ... (plus a third one in spanish sucking away my money ) .... and i must say the only difference between comical ali and CNN is that one is an iraqi and the other's an american company .... I don't trust their journalistic integrity at all ... i guess their only motivation is to find the biggest, ugliest scandal of the day and report it .... and if it ruffles a few feathers or PO a few chaps all the better ... cos it meant that these very chappies will be tuning back to the channel seeking more of the same outrage ...Originally posted by BillyBong:erm...think you better watch more CNN then...the downing of the choppers was covered by their own media, not iraqis or comical ali...
And yes....intense small arms fire can down Apaches...never let their so-called invulnerability go to your head. All it takes is a lucky shot.
was googling idly a while back when i stumbled onto this website that has supposed pics of the downed apaches ... they were troops on battle damage assesment teams or something ... and there were close-up shots of the damages ... consistent with heavy calibre cannon fire ... consistent with 37mm shell fire ....
are apaches invulnerable ... no, of course not ... you can bring down anything after all ... but did some iraqi soldier bring down an apache with an AK ? ... I guess probably not .... -
Care to share the site? hmmmm.....Originally posted by Fatum:was googling idly a while back when i stumbled onto this website that has supposed pics of the downed apaches ... they were troops on battle damage assesment teams or something ... and there were close-up shots of the damages ... consistent with heavy calibre cannon fire ... consistent with 37mm shell fire ....
are apaches invulnerable ... no, of course not ... you can bring down anything after all ... but did some iraqi soldier bring down an apache with an AK ? ... I guess probably not .... -
twas a while back but i'll post the link as on my next break if i can find it ... if i remember correctly it was the strategy page or one of those sites ... they have some pretty nice pics there ... including a pic of a kiowa that made it back despite shell holes so numerous that it looked like cottage cheese ...Originally posted by BillyBong:Care to share the site? hmmmm..... -
thats for most of the airframe. however if one of these rounds manage to make it into the turboshafts of the helicopter, it would cause damage to the powerplant and might probably cause the helicopter to go down.Originally posted by Delta 5:The truth is that Apaches are immune to small arms fire of up to 7.62mm, resistant against 12.7mm fire and even with a 23/25/30 mm AA Gun bringing down a heavily armoured Apache is no mean feat. -
The Apaches I heard were only resistant up to 12.7mm fire. Another above 50 cal, depends on where it hits.
The Mi-24s however are different. Those are REALLY flying tanks. -
i'm just curious, anyone know why'd the designers add the cargo area to the Mi-24s? the hind is already not easily maneuverable due to its "wings" (weapon pylons)Originally posted by Shotgun:The Apaches I heard were only resistant up to 12.7mm fire. Another above 50 cal, depends on where it hits.
The Mi-24s however are different. Those are REALLY flying tanks. -
It's actually the "iron bathtub", the cock.pit that is heavily armored to withstand up to 12.7mm shells.But metal being metal, concentrated and sustained fire will break it.Originally posted by sgFish:thats for most of the airframe. however if one of these rounds manage to make it into the turboshafts of the helicopter, it would cause damage to the powerplant and might probably cause the helicopter to go down. -
I dunno, but I get the idea that some Apache Pilots think they are invincible... and stay in hover for a bit too long, resulting in an "accidental" rpg to aircraft collision, forcing the pilot to lose control of the aircraft.
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Actually there's nothing wrong with the Apache armour...its the tactics employed by the U.S. Army aviators that resulted in that aerial ambush. Apparently they were using pop-up tactics like how they practiced for war in Europe, with rolling hills and forested areas for cover. This would enable them to hide, shoot and scoot. But desert terrain is generally flat like a pool table...sooo...there goes...
Marine Cobra pilots are better in that sense. They fly by the seat of their pants, never really hovering to set up a shot...maybe that's why there's less casualties among the Marine Cobra squadrons..
Funny thing abt all this is...the lessons on gunship tactics were already there..It was first developed during Vietnam. The Americans generally tend to forget things like that quickly...