Bestway to enter room in CQB?
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Am wondering,in CQB,which is the best way to enter a room? Have basically seen two versions,one being that the shooter goes in all the way breaking towards the walls of the room while firing,while the other shows the shooter staying close to the door.
Doesn't staying close to the door draw fire?
And also, doesn't staying close to walls draw fire too?Although the angle the shooter has to defend is halved,the rounds fired from those inside the room inadvertly have to end up somewhere isn't it?And ususally the rounds end up in the walls right?
So which is the best and most ideal way to storm a room? -
I think it really has to depend on the type of the room. Which way the door swings etc. And if i am not wrong, whether the room is blasted away or not. Whether breaching charge is used?
Important thing is that all the angles of the room must be covered.
Generally the first man would go straight in, and 2nd man in the stack cover his left or right blind spot etc.
Any one can confirm this? -
CQB - wtf?
FIBUA is proper term in SAF. Go through your BCTC, ICT, ARTC etc then come back and talk. Those in 4SIR(?) who specalize in FIBUA will have more to say.
The drill of entry is just that, a drill. Different situations, changing circumstances n newer equipment will dictate new methods of clearing a room. There are many virations and no one can say which is better until you are on the ground.
Newer HDB flats with thinner precast walls - maybe standing up to ignite gren may be dangerous (?). Entry through window, celing, floor also possible to avoid being caught in predictable patten.
Just a note - with steel grills over frount door/windows, maybe breeching charge also may be too obvious calling card? -
Throw in grenade lah.....
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Flush the whole building with sleeping gas
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sia lar, russian style eh? Hahahaha.
CQB is very american terminology. But our FIBUA package aint exactly the same thing as theirs also. Our FIBUA i think is more comparable to US MOUT. (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) --- Relates more closely to (Fighting in B.f.ucked / Built Up Area), an originally British Terminology. So FIBUA does not equal to CQB. CQB is only a doctrine to be used in such Operations
What he was refering to was, "Dynamic Entry." How an entry team would enter a building where the occupant is supposedly armed and dangerous. -
MOUT is usually carried out by at least a company level force.Originally posted by Shotgun:sia lar, russian style eh? Hahahaha.
CQB is very american terminology. But our FIBUA package aint exactly the same thing as theirs also. Our FIBUA i think is more comparable to US MOUT. (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) --- Relates more closely to (Fighting in B.f.ucked / Built Up Area), an originally British Terminology. So FIBUA does not equal to CQB. CQB is only a doctrine to be used in such Operations
What he was refering to was, "Dynamic Entry." How an entry team would enter a building where the occupant is supposedly armed and dangerous.
CQB is more geared towards room-clearing and corridor advance.It's a subset of MOUT, which also includes tracked and air insertion in built-up areas, taking into account blind spots and lack of LOS advantage for comms. -
CQB also has different types.... Military CQB, where u operate in hostile area, and Police CQB, where u operate in friendly/civilian areas.
Hence, CQB is not really FIBUA or MOUT itself. =D -
i meant entering a room w/o grenade or flashbang.
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one breacher
one dartboard fella
2 follow-up
normally need 4 lah...3 oso can lah -
Okay,lets say this door is barricaded and has to be open with a battering ram,how does it go?Don't the guy who rams the door get whacked the moment the door opens?
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I've got a hear-say on this (but aren't the majority of the postings here hear-say?). Some of the No.1 and No.2 on the entry teams in US SWAT use very heavy frontal armour for such operations, i.e., suited up something like a American Footballer.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Okay,lets say this door is barricaded and has to be open with a battering ram,how does it go?Don't the guy who rams the door get whacked the moment the door opens?
Ain't that a great hear-say? -
Ya, I pity the guy using the battering ram.
Some police forces use that shield thingy for the 1st guy that enters the room. But have to wonder how much protection that thing really gives. Not to mention that it would probably block some of your firing angles. -
They'd use the ballistic shield as first man, so the 2nd man can shoot over head, and 3rd man can stagger out. Thats for police.
Look out for a documentary on National Geographic on swat teams and the technology. Quite cool. -
Read that there are 2 type of ballistic shields,one soft and the other hard.Wonder if they can both stop 5.56,5.7 or 7.62 rounds man.
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Wah, if the suspect or bugger inside is known to have 7.62 or 5.56 weapons, I think the entry team will be in a "tai lang" mode already. Go in and drop the bugger immediately.
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How about the Israeli way?
You enter the room with a 9mm pistol after an Apache fired a hellfire into the room.
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And sometimes it's a F-16 with a Paveway.Originally posted by zquek:How about the Israeli way?
You enter the room with a 9mm pistol after an Apache fired a hellfire into the room. -
Originally posted by baer:
its 3 SIR to b exact..
CQB - wtf?
FIBUA is proper term in SAF. Go through your BCTC, ICT, ARTC etc then come back and talk. Those in 4SIR(?) who specalize in FIBUA will have more to say.
The drill of entry is just that, a drill. Different situations, changing circumstances n newer equipment will dictate new methods of clearing a room. There are many virations and no one can say which is better until you are on the ground.
Newer HDB flats with thinner precast walls - maybe standing up to ignite gren may be dangerous (?). Entry through window, celing, floor also possible to avoid being caught in predictable patten.
Just a note - with steel grills over frount door/windows, maybe breeching charge also may be too obvious calling card? -
Thats how the stryker brigade fights. Those light armored guys, when encounter a dug in position, or a building with RPGs in it, they just relay the coordinates to the F-16 Blk 30s circling overhead, and they'd drop a JDAM right on the position.Originally posted by LazerLordz:And sometimes it's a F-16 with a Paveway. -
A live example of battle connectivity.Originally posted by Shotgun:Thats how the stryker brigade fights. Those light armored guys, when encounter a dug in position, or a building with RPGs in it, they just relay the coordinates to the F-16 Blk 30s circling overhead, and they'd drop a JDAM right on the position. -
As in every military operation, communication is of the utmost importance. Storming a room requires some special hand signals among the shooters if things are to run smoothly.
http://www.petebevin.com/archives/signals.html -
actually the Israelis use what is called a RLEM (Rilfe-Launched Entry Munitions) to basically create the breach in the door or wall. This allows the flexibility to either breach from an unexpected entry point or to divert attention to the alternate entry point while entering from the main entry point.
The munition is made by Rafael Armament Development Authority in Haifa, Israel and is called the Simon Door Broaching Rifle Grenade. It was developed for and has been used by Israeli Special Forces for the past seven years. It can create a breach from up to 20m away.
What is interesting is that there a lot of technologies out there trying to nullify the defender's advantages.
e.g. UWB scanner to look into rooms, UAV to reconnitor rooms
=) -
Still too dangerous.
Use hellfire safer. Entry don't even need assault team. Ask my little cousin go in with water gun after the Apache launched the hellfire can liao. -
You might wanna note that sometimes you dun wanna kill everyone in the room.Could be hostages etc...