Look at what china pple sae abt our new 155mm gun!!
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Well.They banned SkypeOUT too.
Yes we might have flames in our forums, but you don't see us flinging and hurling insults in military discussions. -
Actually, it happened before. Idwar did that. What happened to him? Has he been banned?Originally posted by LazerLordz:Well.They banned SkypeOUT too.
Yes we might have flames in our forums, but you don't see us flinging and hurling insults in military discussions. -
Hmm.I'll take it as a sign that there is effective civility.Originally posted by iveco:Actually, it happened before. Idwar did that. What happened to him? Has he been banned? -
Hmmmm......in a decade or so, Hu and Bush might be shaking hands in agreement to share the resources of the world as the only two superpowers, EU and Russian might be considering a Union to balance the power of USA in Europe and beyond.... and singapore would be run by FT and lease our F15, warships, and even our NSF to any country who can pay, and ....and what can China having an internal strife changed anything?Originally posted by equlus84:Hmmmm...... to Sgdiehard, wat u said that China has no internal strife? isit? Now maybe not, but in a decade or so might have.
Absolutely agree, and who is saying japan will not invade asia again?? and USA is a peace loving nation??Originally posted by equlus84:First of all, no nation on this planet can ever declare that they are a eternal, forever peace loving civilisation or nation. If they ever done so, it is A WHITE LIE.
Brilliant knowledge of historical facts, but you donÂ’t need to go back as far as 1000 yrs of history, as recent as in the 1500, 7 to 10 millions of native Indians were reduced to 250,000 today in the form of nation building by the white American, how should we portray the American then?Originally posted by equlus84:Â… Just like Japanese harrassed it's neighbours since 1500s, China since Han period already start a couple of violent expeditions into their neighbours land. Do u knoe that in Vietnam, there is this festival that celebrates the driving out of the Song dynasty soldiers abt 1000 yrs ago? Do u knoe that emporer of Sui dynasty start 3 long and bloody campaigns that range for abt 50 years to capture the Gao Li (korean) empire! But of course most Chinese historians from past to present gloss over such campaigns.
Learn this from Dr. Mahathir, “we have had dealings with China for 1800 yrs…and we were never conquered by China. We started trading with the Portuguese in 1509. By 1511, we were conquered by the Portuguese….China is only 2000 miles from Malaysia. The Portuguese came 8000 miles and they conquered us.”
Today we are talking about American carrier groups in asia, 6000 miles from home, sailing along the coasts of China, and we portray china as the thread??
It is not just knowing historical facts, but pls read the events using the same standards.
China only claimed to be the middle kingdom, not in the middle of the Universe. Chinese reverence for the universe has resulted in the many deities, if you are aware. Chinese emperors only considered themselves sons of heaven, but never the heaven itself.Originally posted by equlus84:Bcos the emporer is regarded as the mandate and China was like in the middle of the Universe! Therefore Chinese being influenced by such thinkings, bcomes racist in nature by claiming those non-Han as barbarians. But why no ppls complain abt these events of wars throughout history, because the authorities then cleverly linked the conquest to "taming and subduing the uncivilized", and most importantly link it to the ruler. If it was the emporer's and heaven's will, it is the people's will!
The dynasties of the Han people always had skirmishes with the nomads in the north, and the Mongolians and the Manchurians actually conquered and ruled china. But the Mongolian yuan dynasty did not last two generations because they ruled china, and the world, then including asia and part of Europe with swords on the horse backs; but the Manchurians, the qing dynasty, rules china for over 400 yrs because they adopted the Chinese systems of writing, farmingÂ….It is not wrong to say that many uncivilized minorities were subdued, at least for peaceful co existence!! if you compare this part of history with that of America, at least there is still a large population of Mongolian and Manchurian around. The cheyenne, the mohigans..all perished...
I do not doubt there are propaganda and whatever nonsense there are in China on the websites, but I am not blind to the propaganda from the other sides, whether it is the US or anybody whoever they think they are. My position is clear, I take no side between the US and China, and Singapore should never be sucked in to take side for the US. I do not portray the US as the possible aggressor even though their carriers groups are right here in Asia, I cannot see any reason why we should portray china as the “possible future” thread to the region. May be someday when china submarines begin to surface outside the coast of America or china navy having a base in cuba, then I might change my mind.Originally posted by equlus84:Secondly, if u happen to visit China's military websites, u will be horrified by the level of facist, racism in those forum,. …..of CHina?Those things like peasant riots which is on the rise is never reported on CCTV u knoe? There was once I happen to see a China websites that claim SARS start in Singapore and we sabo them by spreading it to them!
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Re: Chinese navy and RSN
Some countries like to go for ships with big guns and missiles sticking out.
while some other countries like to go ships with a small gun , but powerful missile hidden inside.
Let's see! a computer.
Intel inside , but looks like a box from outside. -
Let's say a military showdown happens in South China Sea .
within next 10 years
Singapore might not lose , China might not win.
China might win when it comes to naval battle between SG forces and Chinese forces.
But they wouldn't be able to land in SG.
Because we are more then 2,000 km away.
If travel on ships , surely will get noticed , more then enough time to mobilise..unlike Taiwan 300 km away ..mobilisation needs to take up lesser time.
Gurkhas , Apache , SAR-21 , NSF ,artilleries , MBT , Bionix , spike , milans all waiting for them the moment they set foot at changi beach.
And we will be able to use our full 350,000 men. -
China has a very limited A2A refuelling capability and when the SU aircrafts reaches here , it would have been out of fuel already and it will definitely have problems finding it's way back to base.
Even if they travel at the optimum speed , to save fuel , that means it will take about 2 hours to reach here.
But the time they approach here , new F-15 T full of thrust packed with AESA and AMRAAM & python 5 will be chasing them down.. -
Most of their missiles are also built within 1000 km range.
Other then those which are specifically built for long range
China has nothing to gain when invade sg unlike Taiwan.
Taiwan can serve as a strategic door for the pacific ocean.
SG? No.
Cause if they take over SG , they have to expend their forces southwards.
You might argue that they want oil , but why would they want oil when they have undiscovered oil in xinjiang provinces?
and they would risk upsetting the whole balance in south east asia.
an unsteady area in north east asia would already be detrimental to
China.
With it's surroundings full of uncertainty , i doubt it would do so..
It was easier for Japan to do so about 60 years ago.
Now everyone has built up their weapons and technology..
Fighting a war in this era and winning it is never easy. -
LazerLordz , you are over-reacting , they don't even have a proper aircraft carrier.
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to remind your thick skull, they have one tat can be readily converted as a carrier..?Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:LazerLordz , you are over-reacting , they don't even have a proper aircraft carrier.
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Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:LazerLordz , you are over-reacting , they don't even have a proper aircraft carrier. Up to you la.Sigh.
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Ok, Sgdiehard, I not saying that China should not be powerful or wat, I actually feel a multi polar one is definitely better than a unipolar one. BUT, with China's current behaviour and attitude towards interacting and diplomacy with the neighbours is a far cry from being polite. Do u know the Chinese claims that in history, they ruled the spratlys since Tang dynasty! LOL! Those islands are veri much near to borneo or Sulawesi, any the ppls of those islands are known to be good navigators, sailors and fisherman. Yes, the ppls may not have huge and extravegent vessels like Zheng He's but those islands are known to shelters for fishermen during seasonal winds, thus isn't the Islanders chance of exploring the islands and harbouring there higher than those of medieval China? So do u know why those islands suddenly 'discovered' by Tang men as China claimed? Bcos they have OIL!! But hey just look at how they settle the dispute with the 9 other parties, HIGH- HANDED siah. Refused to let the ICJ handle the issue and worst of all, CHINA WANTS TO DEAL WITH THESE 9 DISPUTEES AS SEPARATE ENTITIES!!!!Worst of all they actually planted naval markers on one of the islands claimed by Philippines, Philippines and all these small ASEAN neighbours kana BULLY BIG TIME. They want to keep the military options alive. That's 'friendly' and 'diplomat' perhaps by CCP standards. So I put this to u, if Ghenhis Khan once conquer more than half the known civilised world of 1300 can the Mongolian government claim those territories today? China has always been banking on the world war 2 issues to justify it's rapid modernisation and their nationalism education has morbidly become facist education. The repeated rhetoric of their country being bullied for thousands of years and the need to unifiy the 'Hua Xia" civilisation has instilled a high level of hatre, jealousy, anger and vegeneful mentality in their present day youths. Lets not forget WW2 Hilter also wanted to 'unify' the Bavarian territories, one after the other....... Austria........Sudenteland.......Czechoslovakia...........Poland............ Remember how the Japanese rapidly industrialise and yearn to join the 'big boys' club nations. ALL THESE CAUSED WAR. So I fear the day Singapore was 'once part of the Ming Kingdom'. Also, remember, father is a murderer does'nt mean son is a murderer........ 1 day ago he/she is not a thief doesn't mean he/she will not steal forever. Thus I can only say....... Singapore, prepare for a rough ride ahead.
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In modern day , land size and population don't give you a big voice.
Whoever has the most powerful army has the largest voice. -
I do agree that after getting back HK and Macau , China seems to be a little aggressive when it comes to it's perceived "own" territory .
It can't seem to let go of territories it has lost in the past.
If it can't let go of 1949 , what makes you think it will let go of previous empires?
What if one day China says , Singapore belongs to China , since Chinese explorers set sail from China and laid a claim and the chinese population here are a prove of their "evidence" ?? -
I'll tell them to procreate with a spider.This is our land.Not theirs.Bring it on la..I'm sure the guys here would love to sock them for once..Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:I do agree that after getting back HK and Macau , China seems to be a little aggressive when it comes to it's perceived "own" territory .
It can't seem to let go of territories it has lost in the past.
If it can't let go of 1949 , what makes you think it will let go of previous empires?
What if one day China says , Singapore belongs to China , since Chinese explorers set sail from China and laid a claim and the chinese population here are a prove of their "evidence" ??
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On the other hand , With the development of nuclear weapons , i don't think any country will dare to move first.
China risks provoking Taiwan , Korea , Japan & USA if it makes any wrong moves.
In WWII , Japan dare to attack because China was weak.
Germany dared to move into France/Poland because they were weaker
Neither will it help China if it proceeds to claim it's territories like Taiwan..
the potential damage that will be done to the mainland itself and the grim prospect of failure is more then enough to deter the CCP for 20 years to come. -
Technically, Singapore never belonged to China. Large numbers of Chinese immigrants started coming only after the British East india company established a trading post in Singapore.Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:I do agree that after getting back HK and Macau , China seems to be a little aggressive when it comes to it's perceived "own" territory .
It can't seem to let go of territories it has lost in the past.
If it can't let go of 1949 , what makes you think it will let go of previous empires?
What if one day China says , Singapore belongs to China , since Chinese explorers set sail from China and laid a claim and the chinese population here are a prove of their "evidence" ?? -
Then US can belong to China liao
Coz of evidence showing migration of ancient ancestors of Chinese thru the Alaskan range to Central America, and many Chinatowsn in US -
1421Originally posted by laurence82:Then US can belong to China liao
Coz of evidence showing migration of ancient ancestors of Chinese thru the Alaskan range to Central America, and many Chinatowsn in US 
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This is only stage 1 of China's rise.
There will more to come on year 2010.
Another one on 2020.
China might turn the tables on USA .
Won't be surprised if americans speaks mandarin one day.. -
But the original inhabitants of the USA were the Cherokees.
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Yeah and the flag on the moon is Chinese right..dream on.There will be some sort of balance..China will not dominate the world by 2020.In fact, I believe that more Chinese will embrace the English language..surely you don't expect Eastern Europe and Africa to learn Mandarin right..its not so easy to learn..Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:This is only stage 1 of China's rise.
There will more to come on year 2010.
Another one on 2020.
China might turn the tables on USA .
Won't be surprised if americans speaks mandarin one day.. -
Once the 800 million farmers turn into IT experts..etc..
say China has 1,200 million people.
America only got 400 million people.
say each american has a PCI of $40,000 USD.
They just need to get $10,000 PCI just to match up with america.
Imagine one day when the dominance is really strong.
Just double of their per-capita income
$20,000 PCI and their economy is double the USA!
and if the military spending ratio is the same with america , that means China will have 900 BILLION USD of defense spending
If Every Chinese in China , lives a good life and everyone progress , that means every chinese has a living standard and earning similar to an american citizen, that means effectively chinese economy will be 4x america.
that works out to 1.8 trillion of spending per year.
or if every chinese earns the same as every singaporean
China population is over 300 times singapore's ones.
300 x 10 billion of singapore's defense spending...
That works out to 1,800 Delta Frigates , 18,000 F-16 , 6,000 F-15 , 1,800
and and...............1,200 LST.... -
No one owns a time machine dude..Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:Once the 800 million farmers turn into IT experts..etc..
say China has 1,200 million people.
America only got 400 million people.
say each american has a PCI of $40,000 USD.
They just need to get $10,000 PCI just to match up with america.
Imagine one day when the dominance is really strong.
Just double of their per-capita income
$20,000 PCI and their economy is double the USA!
and if the military spending ratio is the same with america , that means China will have 900 BILLION USD of spending
If Every Chinese in China , lives a good life and everyone progress , that means every chinese has a living standard and earning similar to an american citizen, that means effectively chinese economy will be 4x america.
that works out to 1.8 trillion of spending per year.
or if every chinese earns the same as every singaporean
China population is over 300 times singapore's ones.
300 x 10 billion of singapore's defense spending... -
That works out to 1,800 Delta Frigates , 18,000 F-16 , 6,000 F-15 , 1,800
and and...............1,200 LST.... 30,000 TEMPEST , 6,000 Apache Longbows.
When that day comes , i'll think singaporeans will gladly drop their weapons.
how to fight?