SAF ammo: 5.56 or .223?

• tvdog

  5 Nov 05, 05:04

  Quick question please...
  
  I can't remember now, but were our M-16 ammo marked .223 or 5.56mm at the base of the cartridge?
  
  I seem to remember it as .223.
• HENG@

  5 Nov 05, 05:28

  I think it should be 5.56mm now, esp if we're using ST manufactured standard NATO rounds. I believe only the american rounds manufactured by winchester will be marked .223.
• Fatum

  5 Nov 05, 05:40

  Originally posted by HENG@:

  I think it should be 5.56mm now, esp if we're using ST manufactured standard NATO rounds. I believe only the american rounds manufactured by winchester will be marked .223.

  actually the 5.56 x 45 came from the .223 Remington Magnum ...
  
  the 7.62 x 51mm MG round started life as the .308 Winchester Magnum ...
  
• Meia Gisborn

  5 Nov 05, 07:46

  Differences between 5.56mm and .223 specifications.
  
  MG
• HENG@

  5 Nov 05, 13:32

  Originally posted by Fatum:

  actually the 5.56 x 45 came from the .223 Remington Magnum ...
  
  the 7.62 x 51mm MG round started life as the .308 Winchester Magnum ...
  

  Yes I know that. But after NATO decided on a standard round to use, there are certain specifications to follow, such as grade of gun powder etc. Thats why its known as 5.56 or 7.62 NATO now. FYI 7.62 is not purely an MG round. It was the standard round for assault rifles until USA pushed for NATO to adopt the .223 as standard because that was what their newly designed M16s were chambered for. In the past, it was commonly used by rifles such as the M14, H&K G3, FN SLR/FN FAL etc.
• tvdog

  5 Nov 05, 15:40

  Erm... thanks for all the answers, but actually, my question is specifically:
  
  The ammo that we used in SAF - that's made by CIS or ST Kinetics - are they marked .223 or 5.56 at the bottom?
  
  Can anyone remember? Or can someone that's now serving take a look and tell me?
  
  Thanks.
• HENG@

  5 Nov 05, 15:44

  Originally posted by tvdog:

  Erm... thanks for all the answers, but actually, my question is specifically:
  
  The ammo that we used in SAF - that's made by CIS or ST Kinetics - are they marked .223 or 5.56 at the bottom?
  
  Can anyone remember? Or can someone that's now serving take a look and tell me?
  
  Thanks.

  5.56mm
• cleong

  5 Nov 05, 18:58

  They are stamped 5.56mm at their base, together with the manufacturing lot number, around the percussion cap.
  
  7.62mm rounds, in addition to being chain linked GPMG rounds, are also available in ball match rounds, possibly in sniper rifles.
• Eiizumi

  5 Nov 05, 19:05

  5.56mm = .223 inch. Get it? Same lah.
• tvdog

  5 Nov 05, 19:43

  Originally posted by Eiizumi:

  5.56mm = .223 inch. Get it? Same lah.

  I think you're being smart over the wrong question:
  
  I did not ask you if 5.56 equal to .223.
  
  I asked if our ammo are MARKED 5.56 or .223.
  
  Now do you "GET IT"?
• Eiizumi

  5 Nov 05, 19:54

  Originally posted by tvdog:

  I think you're being smart over the wrong question:
  
  I did not ask you if 5.56 equal to .223.
  
  I asked if our ammo are MARKED 5.56 or .223.
  
  Now do you "GET IT"?

  Depends. Normally .223
  
  Very rare I see 5.56mm
  
  Sometimes, they dun rite at all.
  
  Depends on how new the rounds is.
  
  My unit normally use SWISS P. (Swiss made)
  
  I work with these rounds alot... so almost every day I see.
• Moonstriker

  6 Nov 05, 00:58

  Just finished guard duty... and yes, our rounds are marked 5.56mm ard the percussion cap on the cartridge base.
• tvdog

  6 Nov 05, 05:09

  INteresting, one says 5.56 and another .223.
  
  I live overseas for 10 already so for the life of me I can't remember if our rounds are marked .223 or 5.56mm. But I don't remember that the ammo I used were ever marked where they are manufactured.
• HENG@

  6 Nov 05, 07:33

  Originally posted by tvdog:

  INteresting, one says 5.56 and another .223.
  
  I live overseas for 10 already so for the life of me I can't remember if our rounds are marked .223 or 5.56mm. But I don't remember that the ammo I used were ever marked where they are manufactured.

  i have to say that logic dictates that since we use the metric system, our locally manufactured rounds are marked in mm.
• ChineseJunk

  6 Nov 05, 09:52

  Originally posted by HENG@:

  i have to say that logic dictates that since we use the metric system, our locally manufactured rounds are marked in mm.

  We lost our in-country capability to manufacture small arms ammo some time ago. Ditto for arty and mortar fuzes.
  
  The odd CIS manufactured rounds were pulled from the stockpile.
  
  
• cleong

  6 Nov 05, 09:56

  Originally posted by ChineseJunk:

  We lost our in-country capability to manufacture small arms ammo some time ago. Ditto for arty and mortar fuzes.
  
  The odd CIS manufactured rounds were pulled from the stockpile.
  
  

  Things change a lot since I ORDed 5 years ago!
• HENG@

  6 Nov 05, 10:25

  Originally posted by ChineseJunk:

  We lost our in-country capability to manufacture small arms ammo some time ago. Ditto for arty and mortar fuzes.
  
  The odd CIS manufactured rounds were pulled from the stockpile.
  
  

  have we? so ST no longer produces any? then where do we get them now?
  
  in any case tho, even if we import from outside sources, I'd expect them to be printed in metric because not many places still stick to imperial units nowadays except for USA n a few other countries.
• tvdog

  6 Nov 05, 15:57

  Originally posted by ChineseJunk:

  We lost our in-country capability to manufacture small arms ammo some time ago. Ditto for arty and mortar fuzes.
  
  The odd CIS manufactured rounds were pulled from the stockpile.
  
  

  Any related articles I can read about this?
  
  I find this incredible.
• ChineseJunk

  6 Nov 05, 19:47

  Originally posted by tvdog:

  Any related articles I can read about this?
  
  I find this incredible.

  The profit-minded types regard 5.56mm ammo as a commodity type product, which can be bought in bulk from the open arms market. If you have the cash and the necessary permits, I could order one 20-foot container crammed to the gills with ammo for you.
  
  The loss of our 5.56 production line is no secret. All ammo suppliers know about it.
  
  The logic is that it's cheaper stockpiling tonnes of ammo rather than maintaining the workers, machines and raw material need to make it in Singapore. What do you think is going to fill all those caverns in the UAF?
  
  I believe the business case and the incessant push to make all units in ST Engg profit centres has overshadowed the strategic aspects of this decision..... you can draw your own conclusion what I think of the loss of the small arms ammo production.
  
  If you visit ST Engg at Asian Aerospace'06, ask them for their brochures on 5.56mm ammo or fuzes and see what response you get.
  
• WiNtEr'SkiLL

  6 Nov 05, 19:47

  lol
• Rockhound

  6 Nov 05, 19:49

  Rounds of 5.56mm ammo are made in SOuth africa now..
• HENG@

  6 Nov 05, 20:11

  no small arms ammo production capability anymore? die.
• tvdog

  7 Nov 05, 03:46

  Maybe they just closed the production lines, but the equipment and capabilities are still there when the need arises?
• SlowPoke

  12 Nov 05, 16:50

  Originally posted by Rockhound:

  Rounds of 5.56mm ammo are made in SOuth africa now..

  I have another source who told me that we got them from a factory in Indoneasia.... perhaps we get stock from different suppliers
• Rockhound

  12 Nov 05, 21:02

  Originally posted by SlowPoke:

  I have another source who told me that we got them from a factory in Indoneasia.... perhaps we get stock from different suppliers

  i gez....when i drew ammo at PLC ammo dump...the boxes state south africa