Chinese Air Defence Systems for Malaysia
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Okay, I've gotten some wind about this one. No details though... any of you guys have any clue what kinda systems are being looked into?
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I've only managed to fish this out... would appreciate more info from anyone.
Malaysia has agreed in principle to buy medium-range surface-to-air missiles from China and in return China will transfer its technology in very short-range air defence system to Malaysia.
Deputy Prime Minister Najib Tun Razak said the procurement would be made under the 9th Malaysia Plan (2006-2009) as part of the continuing Armed Forces Modernisation Programme.
Addressing a news conference yesterday after witnessing the signing of the Memorandum of Understanding on the matter, he said that details of the procurement and offset programme would be finalised later should Malaysia give its full commitment.
China National Precision Machinery Import and Export Corporation (CPMIEC) is offering the FN-6 very short-range air defence system to Malaysia should the country purchase its KS-1A, the medium-range surface-to-air missiles.
The shoulder-launched FN-6 missile has an engagement range of 6km and altitude of 4km while the vehicle-launched KS-1A has an engagement range of 50km and altitude of 27km.
The industrial offset programme of the FN-6 offered to Malaysia is inclusive of special test facilities, universal equipment, special tools, manufacturing process documents, training and technical support, and capable of an annual output of 100 FN-6 missiles. -
Thank god our weapons are not "MADE IN CHINA"
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No need for worry the KS-1A is probably only the equal of a SA-6b Gainful system.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Thank god our weapons are not "MADE IN CHINA"
Not a serious threat to F-15Ts and F-16C/D Block 52s equipped with the latest in avionics and defensive electronics and countermeasures. -
The Chinese offer it but nothing is sign yet!!!!
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DonÂ’t under-estimate ur opponents!
If KS-1A is mere a equivalent of Russian 2G SA-6, then how come it win out from the other bidders like French Aster30 and Russian Buk-M1-2 ADS?
Malaysia is not poor or not access to other available advanced system.
KS-1A missile itself is quite normal, however the Gem of the whole system is its AESA Radar, from the spec. Functionwise, itÂ’s like a scaled down version of PAC systemÂ’s MPQ53.
The KS-1A's HT-233 3-D C band monopulse active phased-array radar, operating in the XXX MHz bandwidth, has a detection range of XXX km and tracking range of XX km out to an altitude of XX km. It can detect targets travelling at a velocity of X km/second in azimuth (360°) and elevation (0° to 65°). Capable of both electronic and mechanical scanning (the latter in azimuth at 4 revolutions per minute).
the radar is equipped with 3,000 ferrite phase shifters, and has a mean-time-between-failures of 100 hours.
http://www.kanwa.com/free/2004/05/e0520b.htm -
AN/MPQ-53
The AN/MPQ-53 is a frequency-agile multifunction G/H- Band radar group which performs
surveillance,
Identification Friend-or-Foe (IFF),
tracking and guidance, and
Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) functions
entailed in the Patriot tactical air defence missile system. The antenna array is a 2.44 m diameter, 5,161-element phased-array planar configuration carried on a semi-trailer chassis. The antenna unit has separate arrays for target detection and tracking, missile guidance and IFF functions. The last of these tasks is carried out by an AN/TPX-46(V)7 interrogator, using a supplementary array adjacent the main circular search and track array on the antenna unit. Other supplementary arrays are for sidelobe cancellation and missile guidance signal reception.
The 3 to 170 km range radar performs its surveillance, tracking, guidance and Electronic Protective Measures (EPM) functions in a time-shared manner by using the system's computer to generate action cycles that last in milliseconds. Up to 32 different radar configurations can be called up with the beams tailored for long range, short range, horizon and clutter, guidance and EPM functions in terms of their power, waveform and physical dimensions. The data rate for each function can also be selected independently to give 54 different operational modes so that, for example, a long-range search can be conducted over a longer time period than a horizon search for low-altitude pop-up targets. None of the functions requires any given time interval which therefore allows a random sequence of radar actions at any one time, considerably adding to an attacker's ECM problem. The search sector is 90° and the track capability is 120°. -
Below from sinodefence.com
KS-1 Surface-to-Air Missile
NAME: Kaishan-1 (KS-1)
TYPE: All-altitude medium- to long-range surface-to-air missile system
INVENTORY: Unconfirmed reports stated that the modified KS-1A SAMs has already entered service with the PLAAF Air Defence Troops near Taiwan Strait.
PROGRAMME
The KS-1 is an all-altitude, all-weather, and multi-target engaging capable medium- to long-range surface-to-air missile system first revealed in the 1991 Paris Airshow. The missile was originally designed as the second-generation medium- to long-range SAM to replace the ageing HQ-2, but the programme was delayed due to unsatisfying performance and the introduction of the more capable Russian S-300.
DESIGN FEATURES
The KS-1 was reportedely first tested in 1989. The system is highlighted by its SJ-212 phased array radar, with a search range of 115 km, a tracing range of 80 km and guiding range of 50 km. The radar is working at G-band, being able to guide six missiles to attack three to six targets. It is also said to have an impressive anti-jamming capability.
Derived from the second- (upper-) stage of the HQ-2, the KS-1 missile has a slant range of 42 km, boosted by solid rocket engine. Apart from aircraft, the missile could also shoot down air-to-surface missiles. The KS-1 missile is comparable in size to the Russian S-300, but can only be launched from a fixed slant launcher, each mounting two missiles, which caused longer reaction and re-loading time.
A typical KS-1 battery consists of a phased-array radar guidance radar station, four twin-rail launchers mounted on a flatbed trucks or a four-leg pedestal, and associated reload, test, and maintenance vehicles. A total of 24 missiles, including 8 ready-to-launch missiles, are available to the battery.
SPECIFICATIONS
Missile Length: 5.6 m
Missile Diameter: 0.4 m
Missile Wingspan: 1.2 m
Launch Weight: 900 kg
Propulsion: Solid rocket booster
Operating Altitude: 0.5 ~ 27 Km
Operating Range: 7 ~ 42 km
Maximum Speed: 1,200 m/s
Missile Manoeuvrability: 20 g
Guidance: Radar command
Warhead: 100 kg HE fragmentation, with radio frequency proximity fuze
Single Shot Hit Probability: N/A
I estimate its Single Shot Hit probability to be in the high 80%s
The range of its search radar is 115km, not too bad, can use as some kinda landbased early warning platform. Maximum engagement range is about 50km.
If it really has that good ECCM capabilities, means its probably hard to decoy it with chaff too. Hence, the only measures against such a system is low-altitude + terrain masking. And taking out its guidance radar before it can shoot. I can see why RSAF chose the F-15T now. -
They are interesting in KS-1A not KS-1,so the Sino-defense.comÂ’s info on KS-1 could be a bit out of date
Here I got a source from Malaysian media.
Kuala Lumpur Tempur in English 01 Jan 03 pp 60, 61
Article by Prasun K. Sengupta:
"China's KS-1A and FT-2000A air defence systems unveiled"
[...] The KS-1A's HT-233 3-D C band monopulse planar phased array radar, operating in the 300MHz bandwidth, has a detection range of 120km and tracking range of 90km. It can detect targets in azimuth (360 degrees) and elevation (0
to 65 degrees). Coupled to the BCC, it can track some 100 airborne targets and can simultaneously engage more than 50 targets. One KS-1A firing unit can simultaneously engage three targets with six semi-active missiles, and comprises 24 missiles, one HT-233 radar, three power supply vehicles, six wheeled dual-missile launcher vehicles, six missile transporter-loading
vehicles, one tractor, one missile test vehicle, three missile transport vehicles, one electronics maintenance vehicle, two tools vehicles, and one power supply vehicle. The single-chamber dual thrust, solid-fuelled missile, weighing 886kg, can engage targets flying as low as 0.5km and as high as 25km,
has a slant range of 7km to 50km and a maximum speed of 1,200 metres/second. -
they didnt sign the contract..... at least wait until they sign the papers....
people never bought a single nut or screw of that missile to begin with.... why bother about its specs?
malaysia may not be poor... but hell they arent that rich...
maybe palm oil for missile? i am sure china would agreed.... -
It's said "under the 9th Malaysia Plan (2006-2009) "
Wait & See what's going on.. -
you go and wait lor... given their "track record"... waiting... really means W....A.....I.....T...... LONG LONG.Originally posted by coolant:It's said "under the 9th Malaysia Plan (2006-2009) "
Wait & See what's going on.. -
New batch of Leiku FFGs + OPVs, one sqn of AEW a/c, another batch of PT-91s , mid-range SAMs, F/A-18Fs, more NGPVs, SPHs & even talk of getting a LPD etc etc.
MY always talk a lot, eventually getting them is another story!!!
The way I see it, the most likely order for next financial planning is most likely the Leiku FFGs + OPVs, that itself will use up most of the fund for any other major acquistion. -
yap...agree wif ya, with their NGPV not yet solved i dun thing they might want to consider buying animore stuff for the time beingOriginally posted by gary1910:New batch of Leiku FFGs + OPVs, one sqn of AEW a/c, another batch of PT-91s , mid-range SAMs, F/A-18Fs, more NGPVs, SPHs & even talk of getting a LPD etc etc.
MY always talk a lot, eventually getting them is another story!!!
The way I see it, the most likely order for next financial planning is most likely the Leiku FFGs + OPVs, that itself will use up most of the fund for any other major acquistion. -
So no ink on the paper, letÂ’s return to where it start
The bidders for MAFÂ’s NG SAM are French Aster30, Chinese KS-1A, Russian BUK-M1-2, MIM-23B Improved Hawk and Hawk-Amraam from United States.
Aster30 of course is the best staff among them for its range is almost double the rest SAMÂ’s at 100km+, however, aster30 is never be cheap and the price for sure will keep them away. Think about it, how many standoff weapons can be launched from F15T beyond the 50KM range of the rest SAMs?
One interesting fact is Chinese made KS-1A is never a favorite at home, ItÂ’s PLA adopted Naval version of Russian Buk-M1 as its standard medium range ship borne SAM instead of home grown KS-1A, the SA-N-7/and SA-N-12 both are Buk-m1 naval variants and now standard PLAN DDG Air defense missiles. Heard Russian and China are jointly developing HQ16, a Chinese version of the Russian Shtil-1 Vertical Launch SAM which is also based on Buk-m1.
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Certainly will buy something, otherwise how all the cronies get richer via all the govt projects?????Originally posted by kaka_22:yap...agree wif ya, with their NGPV not yet solved i dun thing they might want to consider buying animore stuff for the time being
MY's reserve is there for the taking!!!!! -
The F-15T can carry one heck of an array of stand off ordinance. An example is the HARM.
Theoretically, the AGM-88 Harm outranges most of the surface to air missiles out there.. besides those particularly exceptional ones like the S-400.
Practically, I think they'd only target those tracking/guidance radars which is around 50+ km. Hence, only 1/3 of the HARM's advertised range is used... -
No, at 150KM range, the HARM anti-radiation Missile only can be used in the so called “Pre-Briefed” Mode, in such a mode, the long range (up to 150 km (80 nm)) of the AGM-88 is used to launch the missile on a lofted trajectory toward a known threat. However, the today’s NG SAM is mobile, it usually uses Electronically Scanned Array(ESA) Radar, So if HARM against such ESA target, specially AESA target, the range of AGM88 is much shortened and the possibility of it been cheated is increasing as well! AESA radar’s beam scan can perform so many types. Sometimes, it does cheat those anti-radiation Missiles like HARM neatly. To deal with those NG TVM guided SAMs + ESA radars. AGM-88 HARM’s maximum range won’t exceed 50km!Originally posted by Shotgun:...
Theoretically, the AGM-88 Harm outranges most of the surface to air missiles out there.. besides those particularly exceptional ones like the S-400.
Practically, I think they'd only target those tracking/guidance radars which is around 50+ km. Hence, only 1/3 of the HARM's advertised range is used... -
Ic. So would waiting for waiting for the trackin/guidance radars before releasing increase its accuracy? Or at least til u get locked on, or ur wingman gets locked on before firing?
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I would agree yes, but it’s not for pilot to wait, I think the software will do the job for the pilot, if the onboard mission computer does not obtain enough hostile emitter’s data, it won’t display the threat for pilot to launch “ HARM” . The enemy’s AESA radar for its nature short to instantaneous scanning rates and therefore desirable low-probability of intercept characteristics will increase the difficulties for the harm launching system to process such data.
Remember Harm is launched from air to ground and SAM is launched from ground to air.
Which one takes more advantage?
The ground got so many background noises and so many emitters both friend and foe. On the contrary, the ground based AESA radar for guiding the NG SAMs is much powerful and the sky is no too much interferences!
So when the pilot detects thereÂ’s hostile ground emission towards his fighter jet, he must be quite sure he is being locked when he could launch HARM to counter strike. -
Well. Compared to what we have... Our supposedly best is HAWK. 40km only.
I think you go internet find also can build it yourself.
The rest Raiper, Rbs, Igla can say is very short range. -
Hmm I think thats the case if the aircraft doesn't have a HTS, Harm Targeting System. The Harm Targeting System on the F-16s collect all the radar emissions from the Radar Warning Reciever, which includes all the radars that are emitting, have emitted. And they include everything from search radars, to tracking and guidance radars. I believe it also includes naval radars.Originally posted by 38�Ž:I would agree yes, but it’s not for pilot to wait, I think the software will do the job for the pilot, if the onboard mission computer does not obtain enough hostile emitter’s data, it won’t display the threat for pilot to launch “ HARM” . The enemy’s AESA radar for its nature short to instantaneous scanning rates and therefore desirable low-probability of intercept characteristics will increase the difficulties for the harm launching system to process such data.
Remember Harm is launched from air to ground and SAM is launched from ground to air.
Which one takes more advantage?
The ground got so many background noises and so many emitters both friend and foe. On the contrary, the ground based AESA radar for guiding the NG SAMs is much powerful and the sky is no too much interferences!
So when the pilot detects thereÂ’s hostile ground emission towards his fighter jet, he must be quite sure he is being locked when he could launch HARM to counter strike.
The pilot can actually select which radar to shoot the Harm at. Whether the target is still emitting or not, I'm guess the HTS would still contain the coordinates which the radar was at.
I'm not clear with the nature of AESA radars tho. I know they scan a lot faster, hence the emissions would only be detected for a short while. But thats not a problem with a HTS? Unless the radar is a mobile one... But I'm not aware of any mobile SAMs that launches medium range missiles.
If the SAM is using an AESA Radar, I'm betting on the part where it has to actually lock on to me before i launch a HARM at it. Since thats the part where it has to keep its radar on in order to guide its weapon at me. Since no Medium Ranged SAM radars are highly mobile yet, I'm hoping the emitter will still be there wan my HARM slams in on it. -
Ha, HTS just provides you a simple machine solution, but how reliable is that solution?
The HarmÂ’s infamous only record of knocking out an AESA radar happened in 2003, When a USAF F16 launched an AGM88 harm, destroyed a friendly unitÂ’s MPQ-53 radar for guiding the Patriot SAM.
ASEA is the best way to count ani-radiation missile, 1 of the features the ASEA has is its low-probability of intercept ( LPI) , if you know the F22Â’s APG77 ASEA, you probably heard of this LPI. short to instantaneous scanning rates of the AESA contribute to this LPI feature, but not all, some other advantages of the ASEA can also make the Radar Warning Receiver's interception distance much shortened if compared to old style mechanic driven radar and increase the difficulties for the HARM mission computer to analyze those signals fast enough.
BTW, Cheating Anti-radiation missile is not that a tough task as compared to jamming an AAM or SAM -
Well, jamming AAMs and SAMs has never been easy. In fact... they whole idea is to make them crank more and more power to their guidance radars to burn through the jamming so that HARM's can target them more effectively.
And I do agree that SAMs with AESA radars and perhaps active radar guided missiles would be a challenge for SEAD aircraft and pilots.
But, killing SAMs is not just going up to 20000ft, broadcast the wild weasel's presence and wait to get shot at, and hopefully return a HARM. That could be just one component of it. There could be a 2nd package with Mavericks and CBUs in the weeds, waiting for the location of the SAM, ready to shove its payload down the Air Defense Team's throat. I guess, going against modern air defence systems has become an art, no longer just science.
No air defence systems are perfect, nor undefeatable. U just have to peel them layer by layer, and u'll get there.
But point taken tho. I'd hate to go up against any SAMs using an AESA radar. -
Just remember 1 of the Russian air force chef once said : If thereÂ’s only 1 battalion of S300 SAMs. The outcome of NATOÂ’s air raid on Yugoslavia would totally different.
The US and its ally so far never face any opponents equipped with AESA/ESA Radar guided SAM like S300 etc before. All those “Rogue nations” US punished before mainly equipped SA-6 at most.