regarding the Sjoormen subs we have
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i read from some book that our current subs can operate with onli 18 crew as compared to other subs like agosta which needs 54 crew, is it true that such a small crew can operate a more complicated vessel as compared to surface warships?btw the vastergotland class subs need a crew of 28 onli,from wad i saw on the book.
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If our submarines can really operate with such a small crew this comes to show something...The original submarines have been heavily modified internally and i am not refering to the tropicalisation process. The highly automated operations means we can react as fast if not faster than a conventionally crewed sub. To be able to operate with such a small crew means that we can operate more submarines with our current small supply of manpower and thus the 2 additional submarines bought recently.
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It means that a single crew are trained to operate 3 or maybe more system onboard a sub...
In the navy, we got own vocation but we sometimes cross trained and we are jack of all trades and master in our own vocation...
submariners are jack of all trades and master of them....
This justify their pay.... at least 3000+++ -
scarly one tom dick or harry step inside the sjoormen , den those people show their wrist , everyone all wear rolex submariner
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Hey everyone, it's a joke by White Horse SLAPPY.Please laugh , own time own target carry on.Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:scarly one tom dick or harry step inside the sjoormen , den those people show their wrist , everyone all wear rolex submariner -
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Originally posted by LazerLordz:Hey everyone, it's a joke by White Horse SLAPPY.Please laugh , own time own target carry on.
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The Defense Ministry said it is considering whether to buy second-hand Vastergotland-class submarines from Sweden to replace some boats in its fleet.
'The Swedish Navy is planning to stand down two of its submarines of the Vastergotland class,' the ministry said in a statement.
The statement said the ministry is considering considering whether this might give the navy an opportunity to enhance its submarine capabilities by replacing some of its Challenger-class submarines with Vastergotland-class boats.
Singapore has already acquired four second-hand submarines, formerly known as the Sjoormen class, from the Swedish navy. -
wait wait... the article said "replace." Wtf? We are gonna retire our sjoormens once the vastergotlands come into svc?
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We already been cheated once,why must we let ourselves get cheated for the second time? Pls buy something new...No matter how updated these second hand sub r reported when we get them,it is still not well maintence than a first-hand sub. I rather RSN get some new scorpene class sub. I pity RSN....Originally posted by Airforceone:The Defense Ministry said it is considering whether to buy second-hand Vastergotland-class submarines from Sweden to replace some boats in its fleet.
'The Swedish Navy is planning to stand down two of its submarines of the Vastergotland class,' the ministry said in a statement.
The statement said the ministry is considering considering whether this might give the navy an opportunity to enhance its submarine capabilities by replacing some of its Challenger-class submarines with Vastergotland-class boats.
Singapore has already acquired four second-hand submarines, formerly known as the Sjoormen class, from the Swedish navy. -
Originally posted by zenden9:We already been cheated once,why must we let ourselves get cheated for the second time? Pls buy something new...No matter how updated these second hand sub r reported when we get them,it is still not well maintence than a first-hand sub. I rather RSN get some new scorpene class sub. I pity RSN....
Dunno what the hell u r talking abt!?! -
What the hell am I talking abt? It time RSN stop buying 2nd hand sub,understand?Originally posted by gary1910:
Dunno what the hell u r talking abt!?! -
2nd hand subs is that really bad???Originally posted by zenden9:What the hell am I talking abt? It time RSN stop buying 2nd hand sub,understand?
Look at this thread where our old Challanger boat penetrate the USN CVN grp:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49408&page=2
and I quote:Originally posted by signatory in militaryposts.net
Since we dunno how much the 4 Challenger class boats cost but I am sure quite cheap( jsut look at the cost of 2 Västergötland ), it is good platform for us to learn and gain experience for submarines operation, just look at above example , is it more than worth it!!!!
The Swedish success in the Baltic sea, North sea and especially the big mediterranian exercise (Sweden had 100% win, 0 losses in 'Death match' engagements by and against sea and air forces. With the sub HMS Halland of Gotland class) did make the Americans interested but it wasn't until a Singaporian Swedish-trained, and equipped with a Swedish sub (altho actually not of Gotland class) penetrated the defense of a U.S CVN that the bells really rang over there... for the first time, a submarine stood ready to fire its torpedoes against a US nuclear aircraft carrier.
Originally posted by IAF in militaryposts.net:
Hi signatory, this is interesting... Are you refering to ex-sjoormens? Would you be kind enough to elaborate?
Originally posted by signatory in militaryposts.net:
yeah.. unfortunately I don't know which one of the subs from 'Project Riken' took part in that exercise but yes ex-sjöormen class. Of course project Riken ment 6 years of upgrades with the last of the 4 subs delivered in 2001. Training of crews, engineers and sharing of documentation were also part of that project.
If the Challenger could penetrate USN CVN grp, it certainly could do so against any navy in the world!!! Afterall who is better than USN!!!!
Next the 2 upgraded AIP Västergötland-class submarines only cost us USD128mils, which mean only USD64mils per boats!!!!
Do you know how much one brand new AIP SSK cost???
It is abt USD350~400mils per boat , more toward USD400mils!!!!
Do you know that MY bought 2 non-AIP Scorpene plus one old Agosta given to them free cost them????
USD972mils!!!!
That is why I said you dunno what the hell you are talking abt!!!! -
I'm not sure about this article tho... quite vague. Is it a full US Carrier Battle group? Or is it the "light" version. It didn say what ships the group composed of. Whether there was an LA Class Attack sub scouting ahead. Or whether if there were P-3's involved?
Exercises and real war is kinda different. Besides its harder for surface ships to locate submarines, and easier for a submarine to detect a carrier group's presence and plan an attack. Hence in real war-time ops, carrier battle groups alway sail with Attack subs clearing the way for them.
I would guess no attack submarines on the US side was involved.
I'm not putting the crew who "killed" the carrier down. But i'm sure they'd do even better with a better boat! -
First thing, CV never go abt w/o their escorts, and secondly this also happened in South China Sea as Riken1974 has verified.Originally posted by Shotgun:I'm not sure about this article tho... quite vague. Is it a full US Carrier Battle group? Or is it the "light" version. It didn say what ships the group composed of. Whether there was an LA Class Attack sub scouting ahead. Or whether if there were P-3's involved?
Exercises and real war is kinda different. Besides its harder for surface ships to locate submarines, and easier for a submarine to detect a carrier group's presence and plan an attack. Hence in real war-time ops, carrier battle groups alway sail with Attack subs clearing the way for them.
I would guess no attack submarines on the US side was involved.
I'm not putting the crew who "killed" the carrier down. But i'm sure they'd do even better with a better boat!
Read this thread:
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=144001&page=1 -
Are these Sjoormen the real deal or are they just an interim?
I remember reading that they are merely for training. When we are well-versed in sub warfare apparently we'll buy some proper subs. -
Acutally i think he meant if they went around with they're full compliment of escorts. There are times when the CV transits and has a mere 2 or 3 escorts.Originally posted by gary1910:First thing, CV never go abt w/o their escorts, and secondly this also happened in South China Sea as Riken1974 has verified.
Read this thread:
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=144001&page=1 -
Erm, it true that a carrier battle group doesn't sail without it escorts. But it does not mean that there is definitely an attached SSN.
Eg, in the area of pacific operations.
All submarines in the pacific are under COMSUBPAC
While Carriers themselves are under COMNAVAIRPAC
And their surface escorts, COMNAVSURFPAC
Hence, if there is not certainty that the escort configuration will definitely include SSNs on their picket lines. -
Thanks for refering to the particular article that I have written. Sometimes some people tend to have doubts in othe people's word, so I don't really blame them. It's up to them whether they want to believe what I had written. Anyway it's a first hand account that I personally had experienced. enough said.Originally posted by gary1910:First thing, CV never go abt w/o their escorts, and secondly this also happened in South China Sea as Riken1974 has verified.
Read this thread:
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=144001&page=1 -
Alright no offense to what gary1910 said. But just to quote urself in that particular thread.Originally posted by riken1974:Thanks for refering to the particular article that I have written. Sometimes some people tend to have doubts in othe people's word, so I don't really blame them. It's up to them whether they want to believe what I had written. Anyway it's a first hand account that I personally had experienced. enough said.It was meant to be an ASW exercise.....they were out hunting for us.....from ASW helos, P-3C Orion, Sonobouy, frigate, cruiser.....wonder if satelite was involved in tracking us....anyway left the navy liao...
No mention of US SSNs.
I've always believed that the best weapon to hunt another submarine, is another submarine. Hence my posts was simply that, the "swedish" team had a good chance cos of the possible absence of a US boat.
However, I still retain the respect for the crew of the RSN boat that managed to penetrate US ASW lines, and obtain a firing solution on a US Carrier. -
Originally posted by gary1910:
LOL!!!
Since we dunno how much the 4 Challenger class boats cost but I am sure quite cheap( jsut look at the cost of 2 Västergötland ), it is good platform for us to learn and gain experience for submarines operation, just look at above example , is it more than worth it!!!!
If the Challenger could penetrate USN CVN grp, it certainly could do so against any navy in the world!!! Afterall who is better than USN!!!!
[b]Next the 2 upgraded AIP Västergötland-class submarines only cost us USD128mils, which mean only USD64mils per boats!!!!
Do you know how much one brand new AIP SSK cost???
It is abt USD350~400mils per boat , more toward USD400mils!!!!
Do you know that MY bought 2 non-AIP Scorpene plus one old Agosta given to them free cost them????
USD972mils!!!!
That is why I said you dunno what the hell you are talking abt!!!! [/b]
Do u know why Malaysia government always bought military hardware so ex?
(Do u know something like corruptions?)
WOW! A 2nd hand Vastergotland with AIP so cheap? Do u know why much we have spend on those 2nd hand Sjoormen just on MAINTENANCE??? (I bet u r an ousider).I cannot imagine how much we need to spend on those yr so call 2nd hand Vastergotland with AIP including maintence after our experience using on Sjoormen sub... If u think those swedish 2 nd hand sub with those so call modernisation sell to us is really so WELL-MAINTENCE... -
You assumed that the Challenger class tend to go into yard for maintenance becos it is old , then you are totally wrong, becos all subs do that, whether they are new or old!!!!Originally posted by zenden9:LOL!!!
Do u know why Malaysia government always bought military hardware so ex?
(Do u know something like corruptions?)
WOW! A 2nd hand Vastergotland with AIP so cheap? Do u know why much we have spend on those 2nd hand Sjoormen just on MAINTENANCE??? (I bet u r an ousider).I cannot imagine how much we need to spend on those yr so call 2nd hand Vastergotland with AIP including maintence after our experience using on Sjoormen sub... If u think those swedish 2 nd hand sub with those so call modernisation sell to us is really so WELL-MAINTENCE...
Becos all subs whether brand new or second hand are all maintenance intensive equipment, that is becos of the high pressure enviroment they operate in.
So abt 1/3 of the time, subs whether brand new or 2nd hand will go thru a yard overhaul annually, so Challenger are costly to maintain , in fact, all subs ,old or new ,are costly to maintain !!!!
So go check it out whether what I have said above is true or not.
Next is price, SKorea which she got the license to produce 3 U214 AIP SSK cost them USD1.12bil. i.e.USD373mils per boat!!!!
Almost 6 time that of the Vastergotland!!!!!
Enough said abt the price. -
Originally posted by gary1910:
Did I ever mention a ship or sub going for annual maintenance is considered not sea worthy or bad maintence? But if a ship spend more time on yard than at sea or more than 2/3 of the time at yard,something is wrong right?
All subs whether brand new or second hand are all maintenance intensive equipment, that is becos of the high pressure enviroment they operate in.
[b]So abt 1/3 of the time, subs whether brand new or 2nd hand will go thru a yard overhaul annually!!!!
You assumed that the Challenger class tend to go into yard for maintenance becos it is old , then you are totally wrong, becos all subs do that, whether they are new or old!!!!
So go check it out whether what I have said above is true not.
Next is price, SKorea which got the license to produce 3 U214 AIP SSK cost them USD1.12bil. i.e.USD373mils per boat!!!!
Enough said abt the price.
[/b]
BTW,U214 is definitely a better sub and pricing will cost more than scopene..