Scorpene Vs Vastergotland
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Which is better?
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http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/scorpene/scorpene1.html
and
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/gotland/gotland6.html
i'd say vastergotland -
both are different , i went there before
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For 1 to 1 engagement, I think 3 main thing we need to consider:
1) sensors, the ability to detect enemy subs,
2) stealth properties, how quiet? Submerged endurance?
3) lastly the most impt is the skill of the crew and Capt of the boat.
So are we talking abt AIP boats?
Becos both have AIP and non AIP variant. -
meaning?Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:both are different , i went there before -
I will make the question clear. What he/she mean is that My Scorpene Vs Sg Vastergotland.Originally posted by gary1910:For 1 to 1 engagement, I think 3 main thing we need to consider:
1) sensors, the ability to detect enemy subs,
2) stealth properties, how quiet? Submerged endurance?
3) lastly the most impt is the skill of the crew and Capt of the boat.
So are we talking abt AIP boats?
Becos both have AIP and non AIP variant.
Scorpene is 20 years newer and much more expensive, but Vastergptland has AIP.
In conclusion, Scorpene is better but Vastergptland is much worth it. Sg had order 2 Viking class delivery in 2016. -
It's unfair to compare these two...
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On paper, the Scorpene sensors look more advance, but Vgd will be fully upgraded with new stuff, no one sure what isit or whether the Vgd will lose out becos it also depend on ambient enviroment they operate on too.Originally posted by UTAS:I will make the question clear. What he/she mean is that My Scorpene Vs Sg Vastergotland.
Scorpene is 20 years newer and much more expensive, but Vastergptland has AIP.
In conclusion, Scorpene is better but Vastergptland is much worth it.
No expert on this.
But becos of AIP , Vgd will remain stealthy longer than the non AIP Scorpene, that may be the one kill it!!!
As for the crew, our crew are well trained and have more experience than them afterall we have operate subs longer than them and have constant exe with USN and other navies!!!
One thing , our Vgd is design for littoral water of length of only 60.5m whereas the MY Scorpene is 66.4m which it give a slight advantage in operating in shallow water.
Huh???Originally posted by UTAS:Sg had order 2 Viking class delivery in 2016.
So fast!!!! -
it arent really appropriate making the comparison. Till date neither the malaysian nor singapore has made any official form of confirmation on the actual components avaliable in their naval war machine
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Huh?Originally posted by UTAS:I will make the question clear. What he/she mean is that My Scorpene Vs Sg Vastergotland.
Scorpene is 20 years newer and much more expensive, but Vastergptland has AIP.
In conclusion, Scorpene is better but Vastergptland is much worth it. Sg had order 2 Viking class delivery in 2016.
RSN made announcement that they ordered VASTERGOTLAND SSK?
Is it true?
I seems outdated... -
IMHO, how good or bad a submarine is depends alot on the crew.
You can have the newest hull, the best torpedoes, the best combat system and the best sonar but if the crew can't find the targets, the submarine is not worth a cent. Worse if they allow themselve to be detected before they can prosecute the targets.
Also the environment the submarine is in.. If the crew is very familar with the waters, then they gain a very big advantage over their opponent. Our Navy has operated much longer in these waters so I guess we're better in this area.
I gues with our 5 years(?) head start in operating submarines, our navy should be better right?
However, we can't just place every single thing on the crew. The navy must also provide the submarine crew the best equipment.. You can't expect a WW2 submarine to perform even if you have the best crew in the whole world.
So I hope that the RSN will choose the best equipment for our newest submarine. -
Er.. it make hell of a different between interested and ordered.
Anyway UTAS where in world did you get the information that Mindef procured Viking and will be scheduled for delivery in 2016. Dont smoke us leh!!
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Wait. I don't understand one thing... why does the scorpene not have an AIP system installed, when an older sub such as our sjoormen, didn have to begin with, now has?
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AIP module is a add-on, and for Scorpene, there are 3 variant in which one of them Scorpene Basic ( length of 66.4m) do not come with AIP.Originally posted by Shotgun:Wait. I don't understand one thing... why does the scorpene not have an AIP system installed, when an older sub such as our sjoormen, didn have to begin with, now has?
The cost of AIP will increase the price of a SSK by around 15%, and MY bought the non-AIP Scorpene Basic variant.
BTW, we are not talking abt the Sjoormen( Challenger) SSK but upgraded Vastergotland class SSK which are upgraded with AIP module add-on. -
It must be noted that other than hardware comparison, we should look at other area to determine the effectiveness of the submarine:
1) Crew proficiency and discipline.
2) Hardware maintence and reliability. Ships tends to suffer from corrosion and wear-&-tear. This would affect the acoustic performance of the sub.
3) Sg will have around 4 combat ready sub with 2 on stand-by (training); thus it means that our sub will be more ready at the sea.
4) Ability to work with surface vessels or helo to perfrom sub hunting ASW operation. Sg already been practcing the AEW with Indian Navy and even USN.
5) Sonar and combat system. Sg is very quiet on the decoy and ECM suite on our ships.
6) Choice of battlefield. Different water flow and depth and salination level affects the sub performance (sonar and weapon system) and stealth characteristic. -
Honestly i don't like the idea of RSN buying second hand old equipment
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Well, if it gets the job done, then I'm fine with it.Originally posted by Arena:Honestly i don't like the idea of RSN buying second hand old equipment
We have a long history of buying old equipment and upgrading the crap out of them. -
Viking Class?Care to elaborate UTAS?Originally posted by Orcishwarrior:Er.. it make hell of a different between interested and ordered.
Anyway UTAS where in world did you get the information that Mindef procured Viking and will be scheduled for delivery in 2016. Dont smoke us leh!! -
2016 is really too long to wait... The Sjoormen SSKs will probably not see service beyond 2012...Originally posted by LazerLordz:Viking Class?Care to elaborate UTAS? -
Maybe mindef ought to look into some german boats. May have better prospects there for an advanced submarine.
I think the u212 looks pretty good for a diesel boat. Besides the cylindrical sonar and towed sonar array, it has flank sonar arrays too. Why didn we look into this one? -
Show me the money!!!! That's why!Originally posted by Shotgun:Maybe mindef ought to look into some german boats. May have better prospects there for an advanced submarine.
I think the u212 looks pretty good for a diesel boat. Besides the cylindrical sonar and towed sonar array, it has flank sonar arrays too. Why didn we look into this one?
RSN is a forgotten branch until recently. After the Formidable purchase, it doesn't have much more money for capital spending... even getting the 2 second hand Vastergotland class is a hard ask! -
Dun worry abt that, I think RSN will plan ahead to ensure we have sufficient operational subs.Originally posted by Delta 5:2016 is really too long to wait... The Sjoormen SSKs will probably not see service beyond 2012... -
Actually I prefer the U214 which combines features of the proven U209 and new U212. 4 of these SSKs have been ordered by Greece and it is inexpensive compared to the Scorpene or Viking class. Would rather the RSN procure 4 or perhaps 5 of these new-built boats rather than buy more 2nd hand equipment.Originally posted by Shotgun:Maybe mindef ought to look into some german boats. May have better prospects there for an advanced submarine.
I think the u212 looks pretty good for a diesel boat. Besides the cylindrical sonar and towed sonar array, it has flank sonar arrays too. Why didn we look into this one?