Mercenary Branch of SAF
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Looking at the experience of France with the French Foreign Legion and Spain with the Spanish Foreign Legion,why doesn't Singapore embark on a similar venture to create a foreign professional soldiering branch dedicated to peacekeeping duties and operations that are politically sensitive in a domestic context?
For now,I would only look at the experiences of the French Foreign Legion as they are currently the most established example,having been around since 1831.Its commissioned officers are drawn from the regulars of the French Army,while NCOs and enlistees are drawn from among its recruit pool which comes from overseas.
This could serve as a good posting for our regulars to rotate through and receive a fair amount of overseas and possibly combat experience,and make it a thoroughly regular arm of the SAF.
It also offers the option of increasing visibility and power projection capabilities in the world stage,being seen as able to protect our own interests overseas and the mutual interests of those countries we have ties with.
It would also help provide an avenue for gaining citizens,since the 'big picture' demands that Singapores population grow in volume,so this opens up another avenue to do so.
It also offers an option to test our weapons and doctrines in combat situations if they do arise and to help rotate combat experience back into the ranks,perhaps rotating personnel from this branch into TRADOC and the Guards/Infantry and Commando formations training branches.
The contract could be of similar length as the FFL contract,though maybe 6 years is a more reasonable amount,with application for citizenship possible after 3 years.
Comments?
References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Foreign_Legion
http://www.foreignlegionlife.com/ -
Singapore how big , france how big?
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if you are a citizen of singapore you are also prohibited from joining the french foreign legion.
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but who wants SAF troops? at least Gurkhas are much better IMHO , at least they don't whine -
well.. i guess GUrkhas is the mercenary branch.
although they are not SAF guys.
but gurkhas are military trained and have a war time role. -
s'poreans not allowed to join French Foreign Legion mez?didn't noe tt...why so?
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I think he is refering more to the point of why Singapore don't have a professional mercenary branch lead by Singaporean regular officiers like the French Foreign Legion. Benefits stated include gaining combat experience such as in peace-keeping missions,testing of new concepts and increasing Singapore's population as these soldiers will be allowed to have citizenship after they leave that branch. I think this is a good idea but we already have a division which is made entirely of regulars and mainly tasked to do peace-keeping missions such as in Timor Leste.
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Yes,the ADF.but this basically adds another option to our capabilities,allowing Sinapore's interests to be protected while minimal Singapore blood is shed,and would allow us to overcome some of our manpower constraints in the Army better.
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the gurkha is considered our version of foreign legion.
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Mindef should consider expanding ADF to 2 Div strength: 1 armour div + 1 RDF div. The NSF & NSmen will then serve in light Inf Div, say 2 Div? then, we can reduce NS to 1.5 yrs. This also means that NSF will not go OCS.Originally posted by Sardaukar:Yes,the ADF.but this basically adds another option to our capabilities,allowing Sinapore's interests to be protected while minimal Singapore blood is shed,and would allow us to overcome some of our manpower constraints in the Army better.
Good idea? After all. Aust Army only have 1 active div and 1 reserve Div -
If our population could sustain such a large regular force, we would not have NS in the first place!!!Originally posted by 84mmrr:Mindef should consider expanding ADF to 2 Div strength: 1 armour div + 1 RDF div. The NSF & NSmen will then serve in light Inf Div, say 2 Div? then, we can reduce NS to 1.5 yrs. This also means that NSF will not go OCS.
Good idea? After all. Aust Army only have 1 active div and 1 reserve Div
We could go the way of the OZ but the OZ main defence is actually their navy and airforce, to invade them , it will need a very large navy and airforce to do so, our situation is very different, we need a large army becos of forward defence doctrine. -
I LOLed. -
we dun have any colony to protect. if we need mercenaries for other missions, we already have them - the regulars.Originally posted by Sardaukar:Yes,the ADF.but this basically adds another option to our capabilities,allowing Sinapore's interests to be protected while minimal Singapore blood is shed,and would allow us to overcome some of our manpower constraints in the Army better. -
under present context, i think it's very difficult to implement forward defence. nowadays, nations are less likely to declare war. The govt will also find it more & more difficult to explain the need for NS, esp in the area of attracting foreigners to becom Sg citizen.Originally posted by gary1910:If our population could sustain such a large regular force, we would not have NS in the first place!!!
We could go the way of the OZ but the OZ main defence is actually their navy and airforce, to invade them , it will need a very large navy and airforce to do so, our situation is very different, we need a large army becos of forward defence doctrine.
We all know how "motivated" our NSF & NSmen are. In the long run, NS may not be a gd deterence anymore. in fact, Taiwan has reduced their NS period and moving towards a regular army.
IMO mindef should be able to raise another regular div as the job market will not be as gd as the past. Just my 2 cents worth. -
[quote]Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:
[b]if you are a citizen of singapore you are also prohibited from joining the french foreign legion. .
but who wants SAF troops? at least Gurkhas are much better IMHO , at least they don't whine
off topic........singaporeans are also eligeble for some positions in the british army if im not wrong......can anione clarify
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I heard citizen of commonwealth nation could the the British armed forces but not sure whether they are still in practise.
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Gentlemen, a few points to share.
Firstly. If you want to join other Armed Forces (US Marines, French FL, etc), you can. But you've to renounce your Singapore citizenship. For more info, check with MINDEF or MHA.
Secondly. Only Singapore citizens and PRs are recruited into the SAF. This is laid out in the constitution.
Thirdly. Gurkhas serve in the Singapore Police Force, never in the SAF. However if the Gurkha is given PR, he can apply to the SAF.
As to why Singapore do not have "a foreign professional soldiering branch", the short answer is NO POINT. NO MONEY. And allow me to share my views with you on the following;Peacekeeping duties and ops that are politically sensitive in a domestic context?
If you can't send in the SAF, sending in a force comprising foreigners armed and backed by Singapore will only make matters worst.This could serve as a good posting for our regulars to rotate through and receive a fair amount of overseas and possibly combat experience,and make it a thoroughly regular arm of the SAF.
SAF has regular training, coorporation and exercises with other armed forces. This is common knowledge.It also offers the option of increasing visibility and power projection capabilities in the world stage,being seen as able to protect our own interests overseas and the mutual interests of those countries we have ties with.
Singapore address this concern through diplomatic ties and economic coorporation. Eg, ASEAN and FTAs with various countries. Increased Army size might be interpretted as aggression.It would also help provide an avenue for gaining citizens,since the 'big picture' demands that Singapores population grow in volume,so this opens up another avenue to do so.
True but with people who can fortify our economic front, not our battle front. It's about MONEY!It also offers an option to test our weapons and doctrines in combat situations if they do arise and to help rotate combat experience back into the ranks,perhaps rotating personnel from this branch into TRADOC and the Guards/Infantry and Commando formations training branches.
Hopefully we'll never have to test our weapons and doctrines in war. But IF the time comes, do we send in the foreigners to die first and the survivals to come back and tell us how to fight? What do you think? What will THEY think?
Thank you for the opportunity to share. I do not work for the government. Kekekekeke......
ORCA
DE OPPRESSO LIBER -
Actually, the US Marines are more than happy to recruit foreigners if any of u are interested. Unfortunately, they send u to die in iraq... haha.
For some of the immigrants, its really a God-sent, since they'd become naturalised as citizens after completing their tour... IF they complete their tour. If they die in combat, they become citizens, post-humous, which means their family can move to the US as citizens if i am not wrong.
Was approached by a 1sg Marine recruiter when I was shopping at Target. I was looking at some camping stuff, GPS etc... and he approached me saying, "i see u like to go camping. We're from the marines, u know what marines are? " I was like "uh... yeah.." Then he said this, which i almost rofl to death, "Well, come see us at the recruitment office if u are interested, in the marines, we go camping a lot!"
I kept his name card as a momento of the silly stuff that happened in my US tour. So fun. -
Originally posted by Shotgun:
Did you tell him you were Singaporean?There have been cases of US Army and Marines having recruiters who somehow bend rules to get people of neglible IQ or foreign aliens in.
Actually, the US Marines are more than happy to recruit foreigners if any of u are interested. Unfortunately, they send u to die in iraq... haha.
For some of the immigrants, its really a God-sent, since they'd become naturalised as citizens after completing their tour... IF they complete their tour. If they die in combat, they become citizens, post-humous, which means their family can move to the US as citizens if i am not wrong.
Was approached by a 1sg Marine recruiter when I was shopping at Target. I was looking at some camping stuff, GPS etc... and he approached me saying, "i see u like to go camping. We're from the marines, u know what marines are? " I was like "uh... yeah.." Then he said this, which i almost rofl to death, "Well, come see us at the recruitment office if u are interested, in the marines, [b]we go camping a lot!"
I kept his name card as a momento of the silly stuff that happened in my US tour. So fun.[/b]
Do post a pic of the card for us man -
okay this is the best i can do with my K700i. My scanner is AWOL.
Front
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Nah, didn't tell them I was Singaporean. In fact, didn't talk to them much at all... just the "uhhh... yeah.." And a "Okay thanks." when they left. ] -
marines are well paid compared to singaporeans
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Hehe Shotgun, seems like SGT Medrano used the card of his predecessor.
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yeap, looks like it. =)
I think its more like his gunny or encik arrow him to go out recruiting. And perhaps there are some benefits for recruiting ppl... maybe this guy is a "recruitment spec?" Hah.
Can't be, i saw a purple heart on his uniform. -
I *seriously* susepect not. but then again our army passes for a 'cutting edge' army as well.Originally posted by spiderweb6969:the gurkha is considered our version of foreign legion.
do gurkhas get naturalised as citizens after their tenure in Singapore? I htink not right? they're just being paid as regular mercenaries... Not sure about how tough their training is though.
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Maybe its because of the purple that he has been downgraded to be some sort of a recruiting spec?Originally posted by Shotgun:yeap, looks like it. =)
I think its more like his gunny or encik arrow him to go out recruiting. And perhaps there are some benefits for recruiting ppl... maybe this guy is a "recruitment spec?" Hah.
Can't be, i saw a purple heart on his uniform. -
I'm not sure wad kinda medical classification system they use there, but he looked 100% combat fit to me. He looked like he could eat a few of our cdo specs alive... LOL!
Btw, i wonder, if u trip over on some barbwire and hurt urself, would u get a purple heart? In combat that is...