Liberation of Singapore
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Does anybody know about any military ops to liberate Singapore from Japanese Occupation if the atomic bombs hadn't been dropped. Read somewhere saying an AC was on the way...
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Operation Zipper.
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well a combined british chinese american force was already at burma by then. If the bomb wasn't dropped, it would only be a matter of time before the allied forces swarm down to malaya
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Even if they did swarm... they may not succeed in liberating Singapore either. Again, Singapore civilians will suffer from such an act of liberation under allied guns and bombings.
Lesson learnt from ww2, Singapore must not fall in the first place. -
with the amount of weapns...manpower, airpower that the allies had that time, the japanese were simply outmatched. Read about the burma road for more info.Originally posted by Shotgun:Even if they did swarm... they may not succeed in liberating Singapore either. Again, Singapore civilians will suffer from such an act of liberation under allied guns and bombings.
Lesson learnt from ww2, Singapore must not fall in the first place. -
Majorities of the Jap garrison tropps in SE Asia on 1944-1945 are not their best units. A lot of elite Jap forces are tied down in pacific war esp at Okinawa and Iwo Jima. In addition, many of the Jap in the elite Jap unit in Burma were down due to malaria and dengre fever. Jap also faced critical supplies issues at SE Asia, esp towards the mid 1944.
The lost of the Jap sea supremecy at Pacific Occean, had resulted in the success of USN operations aginst the Jap supply ships. It had disrupted the material flows, and reduced the industrial output for Jap war effort. It was noted that the last Jap Carrier Shinano had taken a much longer time to build due to the shortage of materials and skilled labours.
In addition, the british and the elite units from Nationalist china had managed to recover from the earlier defeats in Burma. The China war front had been unfavourable for Jap since the 1943. The Jap offensives into nationalist china heartland were repeatedly repulsed by the chinese. The chinese communist had also present a threat at the occupied chinese terriorities.
Jap was unlikely to hold out against an British frontal assault, should Lord Louis Mountbatten decided to push the jap out of malaya and singaporean in late 1945. -
Hmm.... another 'what-if' in the old, yellowed pages of history.
What I think... the British were already on the counteroffensive in Burma, supported by the Chinese and the Americans, and I think they did manage to retake quite a bit of ground.
It's not too much of a stretch to imagine the Allies fighting down the Malay peninsula. It wasn't really a question of whether the Japanese could be defeated, but rather, a question of how long it would take do defeat them. Second-rate troops notwithstanding, it would take a long time to dislodge and defeat the firmly-entrenched Japanese troops.
Finally, when they do reach Singapore, I wouldn't expect the Allies to retake it bloodlessly. Remember that the greatest fear on Yamashita's mind when he assaulted Singapore was the prospect of FIBUA ops in the city center. He knew that they were outnumbered and running low on supplies, and at the very least, he could be fought to a standstill if it ever came down to street fighting.
If that's the case, I'd expect the Japanese to fight the way the Soviets held Stalingrad. Singapore would eventually be liberated, but only after a lot of blood has been spilled. -
he battle for singapore would simply refect the battle of manila if that is the case.
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There was indeed a military operation called Zipper that was commanded by Lord Louis Mountbatten. Had the bomb not fallen, Operation Zipper would have been an amphibious invasion on the east coast of Malaya, with a large naval and air support. What will happen then would forever be a "what-if" scenario. It was converted to Operation Tiderace after the Japanese surrendered.
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The Japanese will fright to the last men la. they will not pullout of singapore Unless their country are in danger. The Allies pullout of singapore because their own country are in great danger at that time so they have to protect their own home first.(ask yourself will you die for other people home unless u are a japaneseOriginally posted by fudgester:Hmm.... another 'what-if' in the old, yellowed pages of history.
What I think... the British were already on the counteroffensive in Burma, supported by the Chinese and the Americans, and I think they did manage to retake quite a bit of ground.
It's not too much of a stretch to imagine the Allies fighting down the Malay peninsula. It wasn't really a question of whether the Japanese could be defeated, but rather, a question of how long it would take do defeat them. Second-rate troops notwithstanding, it would take a long time to dislodge and defeat the firmly-entrenched Japanese troops.
Finally, when they do reach Singapore, I wouldn't expect the Allies to retake it bloodlessly. Remember that the greatest fear on Yamashita's mind when he assaulted Singapore was the prospect of FIBUA ops in the city center. He knew that they were outnumbered and running low on supplies, and at the very least, he could be fought to a standstill if it ever came down to street fighting.
If that's the case, I'd expect the Japanese to fight the way the Soviets held Stalingrad. Singapore would eventually be liberated, but only after a lot of blood has been spilled.
) That why we can't depend on them and so we fright for our freedom.
The rise of freedom -
Yes.
Never again.No more humiliation
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The Jap garrisoned in Malaya and Sg are not the elite division. The Jap air assets and naval assets were all tied up in Okinawa and Iwo Jima. The jap best crack troops werestationed in Burma to guard against British, in fact, these cracked Jap troops were supposed to conduct the invasion of India together with the INA (Indian National Army). However, their attacks into India had been repulsed by British and suffered from heavy loss.
As I mentioned before, Jap soldier in FIBU was deadly but not formible nor unstoppable. In the defence in Sg, the Chinese resistance corp and Malay regiments had proven that Jap are not as formible as it seems. In fact, these local units were defeated due to lack of equipments and training. The reason that Jap was able to defeat british was simply because british were not as determined to fight as compare to the Jap. It was widely known that Jap army was running low on supplies in the last days of the Invasion of Singapore, the Jap soldiers even had to ration their ammunitions in the field and cut down on their meals during the seize phase of Singapore city. The loss of Singapore in WW2 was more due to the the poor leadership of the local british commander, and lack of determination / preparation in the British armies in malaya.
During the 1944-1945, British / Chinese invasion forces had destroyed much of the backbone of the Jap Army in Burma. In fact, Jap soldiers had to fled away and being chased by the British. After the re-taken of Burma in 1945, most elite Jap units were ordered to pull back into Japan mainland for the ultimate battle with the US invaders. The only Jap crack troops stationed outside Jap mainland was the 100K strong KwangTong Jun in Manuchia / North China. Later, the KwangTong Jun was also beaten like sh#t by the invading Russian armoured thurst. You can see that Malaya and Sg was rather empty, running very low on supplies. Even if the local Jap resisted, british were not expected to face off with most eilte Jap in malaya and Sg. -
Paper talk war, easier to fight than real-life action.
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simulation software anybody knows??
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There was an article in the Economist about the software you are probably thinking of. Sept 17 2005 issue, page 21.Originally posted by archon1234:simulation software anybody knows??
There is a US institute that has developed a software that can predict the outcome of a battle (under various complex scenarios) and output the data in the form of human casualties. The institute is called the Dupuy Institute and the software they market (supposedly costs US$ 93 K) is called TNDM - Tactical Numerical Deterministic Model. -
will u trust a computer?Originally posted by specfore:There was an article in the Economist about the software you are probably thinking of. Sept 17 2005 issue, page 21.
There is a US institute that has developed a software that can predict the outcome of a battle (under various complex scenarios) and output the data in the form of human casualties. The institute is called the Dupuy Institute and the software they market (supposedly costs US$ 93 K) is called TNDM - Tactical Numerical Deterministic Model. -
it's not a matter a trust...jus tat...it beats facing and doing the real thingOriginally posted by beavan:will u trust a computer? -
SAF also using the simulation software on the war game either with troop or without troop exercise. It can't pysical deploy full strength equipment & troop & fire live round toward each other in the exercise to obtain the ture result.Originally posted by beavan:will u trust a computer?
It have to base on some assumption to predict some result although it might not be ture is with pysical stuff or human factor may different the outcome but nothing is perfact.
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you got to have a value backed by historical data to start with.Originally posted by archon1234:simulation software anybody knows??