My PT-91M on parade
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The pixs you provded plus the one on parade are all w/o ERA on the hull.
And the estimated protection for T-72M1( original version of PT-91) is abt Turret: 450-570,Glacis: 480 mm RHA against CE round.
And Turret: 320-430 , Glacis: 420 mm RHA against KE round.
So could our Matador LAW destroy it ???
It was reported that it have cone penetration ratio of 5x i.e, 5 x90mm~ 450mm RHA, but this is I believe that it is lower than actual , becos modern AT weapon have abt 6.5 ~8 of cone penetration ratio , so it could be possibly penatrate 585~720mm RHA.
So for Matador, hitting the side and rear should be able to at least a mobility kill, the "naked" glacis is a possibility.
As for 84mm, the FFV-751 HEAT-T tandem warhead round is able to penetrate 500mm behind ERA, so I think it should be able to penetrate most part of the tank maybe even the ERA turret.
As for Spike tandem warhead which is top attack ATGM, the PT-91 is a dead meat becos most modern ATGM have at least 800~1000+ mm RHA penetration.
But for our AMX-13SM1 which the 75mm APFSDS round is estimated to have penetration of abt 310mm @ 0-deg @ 1km, thus quite limited and this is our weak part, that is why we need new tank to replace them. -
APFSDS round armor penetration is dependent upon the range of the target...
at closer range the AP effect of the APFSDS actually increase...
why not we robotise the AMX-13 into Unmanned attack land vehicle... drive them up and shoot the PT-91 at point blank range lah....
at least dont waste them by sending them to the scrape yard....
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My mistake, I was misled,the one on parade does come with ERA block on the glacis:
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tell me....
1... how many PT-91s were on parade?? ONE? SIX? or a dozen?
2... does that driver of the PT-91 look like asian to you??
3... isit possible to train someone to drive a MBT in 3 to 4 days? because i heard from a malaysian chinese daily.. that the PT-91 was delivered on the 26th of august this year.
4... isit a norm to deliver MBTs one by one? (i kinda think they rush this tank over for show off.)
but if more then one PT-91 were shown at the parade... please consider my above questions voided... -
One only.Originally posted by tripwire:1... how many PT-91s were on parade?? ONE? SIX? or a dozen?
They are Polish driver + Polish engineers.Originally posted by tripwire:2... does that driver of the PT-91 look like asian to you??
Not possible.Originally posted by tripwire:3... isit possible to train someone to drive a MBT in 3 to 4 days? because i heard from a malaysian chinese daily.. that the PT-91 was delivered on the 26th of august this year.
After the parade, it is going back to Poland, delivery only start after end of 2006, another " Malaysia Boleh" wayang show!!!!!Originally posted by tripwire:4... isit a norm to deliver MBTs one by one? (i kinda think they rush this tank over for show off.)
Here are the answers to all your qns, read this:
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=47464 -
So what's new?Originally posted by gary1910:After the parade, it is going back to Poland, delivery only start after end of 2006, another " Malaysia Boleh" wayang show!!!!! -
One thing about the Txx series from the photos - its really smaller and lower compared to western MBTs.
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After the parade, it is going back to Poland, delivery only start after end of 2006, another " Malaysia Boleh" wayang show!!!!!
wow.....
they so desperate har?
then the presence of the PT-91 doesnt show their strength... but merely exemplifies their deplorable weakness...
i think there is a chinese verse for it...
DA ZHONG LIAN, CHONG PAN ZI...
on a different note... its probably an attempt to pre-empt us...
i mean... our apache is coming home soon.. and by all consideration.. its gonna appear in our 2006 NDP...
better to show the PT-91 now... or else... once the APACHE starts making its round around the padang... their new tanks would be already considered obselete before it even entered service....
anyway.... thanks for the info gary....
i wonder if any malaysian papers actually reported that "their" PT-91, carrying malaysian flag... dont belong to them..... even the driver dont carry malaysian IC. 
i hope they dont decieve their good people... -
got bullet anot...how come never shoot president..Originally posted by sg1960:
My PT-91M on parade
http://www.emedia.com.my/m/BHarian/Monday/Nasional/20050828232958/index.pda
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i was hoping some suicide bombers run to the tanks and detonate...or shoot an RPG at the planes -
Their tanks make good meal for our apaches.Originally posted by tripwire:wow.....
they so desperate har?
then the presence of the PT-91 doesnt show their strength... but merely exemplifies their deplorable weakness...
i think there is a chinese verse for it...
DA ZHONG LIAN, CHONG PAN ZI...
on a different note... its probably an attempt to pre-empt us...
i mean... our apache is coming home soon.. and by all consideration.. its gonna appear in our 2006 NDP...
better to show the PT-91 now... or else... once the APACHE starts making its round around the padang... their new tanks would be already considered obselete before it even entered service....
anyway.... thanks for the info gary....
i wonder if any malaysian papers actually reported that "their" PT-91, carrying malaysian flag... dont belong to them..... even the driver dont carry malaysian IC.
i hope they dont decieve their good people...
Yummy. -
CO: OK, for today you stand straight up in the commander hatch of the PT91M and look smart, boleh??
Soldier in the pix: Boleh!!! Malaysia Boleh!!!!
......... but... who is driving it???
CO: Simple lah, get the Pole drive it under the hatch.
Soldier in the pix: Isn't it dangerous with such a large crowd around???
CO: That is why you are there to make sure nothing happen!!!
Soldier in the pix thinking :KNN,something happen I become scapegoat!!!!
Fxxking tak boleh!!! -
Yah, esp if the Apache crews have been trained both in flight and in simulators to identify, hunt and kill T-72 chassis-like tanks (worse if they are already 'indoctrinated' to instinctly identify T-72s!) in US Army exercises! Btw, the US Army's aggressor teams not just modify US weapons to look like ex-Soviet weapons, but they do operate REAL T-72s!Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:Their tanks make good meal for our apaches.
Yummy.
Therefor for our apache flyboys, there will definitely no need for them to orientate to the silhouette of the neighbouring tanks! And definitely no room for friendly fire! hahahahaha
To be fair to the Malaysian Army (who happened to be our neighbour), I respect their 'professionalism' but they are perhaps the victims of their previous egoistic premier who thinks the world owns him a livin! -
Definitely can't escape from Hellfire II missiles
Even Abrams/Merkeva will also get destroyed by it. -
Good more target for our Apache crews . -
Worse, the tanks will be already useless if they got stuck in the soft mud of the jungles. Apaches, MATADORs or SPIKEs are not the PT-91s worst nighmare, MOTHER NATURE IS!Originally posted by tripwire:...better to show the PT-91 now... or else... once the APACHE starts making its round around the padang... their new tanks would be already considered obselete before it even entered service.... -
i can imagine the poor malaysian soldiers trying to push their tanks out of the mud hole..... siong leh.... even SAF SOF dont have such difficult exercise..
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I think that the Boleh Man would not used their precious T72 w/o proper mobile battlefield AA defences. Most likely, the PT72M would be used at the the defensive positions at stragetic locations, eg Sims rivers in Johor or in the central mountain ranges to threaten any possible armour thurst into the Boleh Man capital. They could also deploy the armour at the beach against any possible landing attacks.
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strategic location? with only 48 tanks.. enough meh? freaking waste time only against the inevitable against APACHE and the thoudsands of AT weapons pointing at it....Originally posted by archon1234:I think that the Boleh Man would not used their precious T72 w/o proper mobile battlefield AA defences. Most likely, the PT72M would be used at the the defensive positions at stragetic locations, eg Sims rivers in Johor or in the central mountain ranges to threaten any possible armour thurst into the Boleh Man capital. They could also deploy the armour at the beach against any possible landing attacks. -
Currently , their only mobile ADS for their troops is this :Originally posted by archon1234:I think that the Boleh Man would not used their precious T72 w/o proper mobile battlefield AA defences. Most likely, the PT72M would be used at the the defensive positions at stragetic locations, eg Sims rivers in Johor or in the central mountain ranges to threaten any possible armour thurst into the Boleh Man capital. They could also deploy the armour at the beach against any possible landing attacks.
Igla Djigit
and this :
Starburst
Both on 4x4 truck w/o surveillance radar, poor tactical mobility . -
Most armoured columns will move with their own AA support.
Don't know about MAF. -
Luckily we have our new M113 Igla system to protect our armoured column.
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Hmmmm, Sometimes i really wonder if a certain english author of a certain book about Singapore's Armed forces was paid to include "Tempest" into that book. So called an unofficial way of doing things.
Besides, it justified our reasons for purchasings Apaches. =D -
Of course our mechanised Igla is state of the art with surviellance radar, IRST optronics plus fully network computerised system, not just Igla missile but a system, just like the US Avenger system and German Ozelot system.Originally posted by tankee1981:Luckily we have our new M113 Igla system to protect our armoured column.
It is system that improve K prob in the area of protection.
Such system could easily be upgraded with other IR VSHORADS if necessary, for example when the Igla is obsolete with new better IR VSHORADS , all it is needed is to change the launchers and tweak the system for the new missile.
So I can see we will using this for long, long time, good investment for SAF. -
This only shows the foresight of SAF. The SAF very seldom buy just for the
sack of buying. The things they bought usually fits the whole picture of a potential war-fighting scenario. And they plan well in advance, which can be seen from the consideration of possible future upgrades and technology transfers and supply of spares and ammo even before buying it. However i am not too sure about the AMX-10 vehicles because i think they have made a mistake when buying this. Anyone care to provide more info on this and comments as well? -
that's termed as an "M" kill.Originally posted by bcoy:You just need to disable the tank. An inmobile tank is good as dead in a jungle or urban setting. Followup rounds will finish it off.
Lion or Tiger force anyone?