Pentagon announces possible fighter aircraft sale to S'pore
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actually, i don't think the actual numbers were mentioned, but let's do the math a little ...
the israelis bought bought an initial 21 F-15Is for just over $2billiion, that was in 1994, adjusting for currency fluctuations (weaker US dollar now), and the increasing costs of avionics, i would still say it's around 8 to 10 airframes ....
but in anycase, we'll find out soon enough .... my dollar bet says we'll find out before the middle of next month ...
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over 300 missiles and bombs for ****?
We already got a few hundred missiles at home in sg.
even malaysia and indonesia combined
don't have that number of planes lor!
Unless LHL secretly signed a mutual defense pact with TW..
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It isn't in SG interest to challenge China as well..
200 missiles are too expensive..
We also got so many other weapons in storage..
Let's see what Rafale has to offer us. -
Isn't the range of the JSOW shorter than the planned MBDA Storm Shadow?Originally posted by Fatum:looking at the numbers, my guess would be an initial 8 F-15Ts ... and with JSOWs, AIM-9Xs ... and AMMRAM Cs .....wow ! ... i think our strategic relationship with the US might be a lot deeper than it appears .... JSOW certainly would be a new capability for the region ....
But that having been said, it is a new leap in technology in this region.But it's increasingly clear that our future air and naval assets will be more shifted towards the protection of our SLOCs against any attempt to sabotage or conduct operations deemed intrusive into our self-interests.
Look at the diplomatic speak.We did emphasise that we will not budge from our own self-interests too.And a small state like us must make it costly and suicidal for a bigger power to flex her muscles here without welcome. -
I shall see what France can give us...
But, to be frank, they are shivering how to counter US -
Well, if the French are willing to provide a similar package at a lower price, I don't see why we shouldn't take the Rafale. From what little I know, there's nothing in the package that the French don't have an equivalent of, or could also provide.
Of course, if the French are willing to throw in a few other major goodies....
Perhaps its a little premature to get too excited about the choice of plane for now?
About the 'new' capability.... Is it really 'new' for us, u think? Just wondering. -
I think there's an improvement in ability..but not too much.Just my gut feeling.Originally posted by Blockhead:Well, if the French are willing to provide a similar package at a lower price, I don't see why we shouldn't take the Rafale. From what little I know, there's nothing in the package that the French don't have an equivalent of, or could also provide.
Of course, if the French are willing to throw in a few other major goodies....
Perhaps its a little premature to get too excited about the choice of plane for now?
About the 'new' capability.... Is it really 'new' for us, u think? Just wondering. -
would be quite a bit actually, JSOW will give us stand off targeting ability out to 100 clicks away, JDAMS, and AIM-9X off high off boresight missiles (okay, granted, rumours of python IV and helmut mounted sights on our vipers has been going around for sometime now )Originally posted by LazerLordz:I think there's an improvement in ability..but not too much.Just my gut feeling.
air-to-air wise there would be nothing similar to the aim-9x that the frogs can offer us, and don't forget that the french themselves uses lots of US air-to-ground munitions, the F-15T will be a much better complete package, a much better bomb truck, and with AMMRAM Cs and AIM-9X pretty much nothing else can touch them air-to-air wise actually, 30+ year old airframe notwithstanding ..... my dollar will be on the F15T .... -
Well, ease of logistics is definitely in the front seat if the Eagle is selected.Originally posted by Fatum:would be quite a bit actually, JSOW will give us stand off targeting ability out to 100 clicks away, JDAMS, and AIM-9X off high off boresight missiles (okay, granted, rumours of python IV and helmut mounted sights on our vipers has been going around for sometime now )
air-to-air wise there would be nothing similar to the aim-9x that the frogs can offer us, and don't forget that the french themselves uses lots of US air-to-ground munitions, the F-15T will be a much better complete package, a much better bomb truck, and with AMMRAM Cs and AIM-9X pretty much nothing else can touch them air-to-air wise actually, 30+ year old airframe notwithstanding ..... my dollar will be on the F15T .... -
not to mention ease of modOriginally posted by LazerLordz:Well, ease of logistics is definitely in the front seat if the Eagle is selected.
.... the israeli have F-15I themselves .... modded the hell out of them of course ... another dollar says we'll quietly let them go at it ... the same way they did our vipers .... -
well, i sae, let's see u shut up for a changeOriginally posted by SMAPLionHeart:It isn't in SG interest to challenge China as well..
200 missiles are too expensive..
We also got so many other weapons in storage..
Let's see what Rafale has to offer us.
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u mean the storm shadow isn;t ready? okay anyway after hearing u guys talk so much about f-15t... its quite true, SG prefers budget planes then ST Aero can mod the hell out of it. I guess it will be a pretty interesting Aircraft byt then... But i still cannot imagine at the end of its service life it will be at least 70+ years old... omg. One thing i have to add though, the F-15T is the most beautiful fighter ever built.
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Our Eagles will really have a good hard time chasing the neighbours' Sukkoi 30MKM in the future...
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haha ... you'd think so ? ....Originally posted by archon1234:Our Eagles will really have a good hard time chasing the neighbours' Sukkoi 30MKM in the future...
remember who's our military mentor ? ... The israelis have the best jet air-to-air combat record in the world, and they are probably the most kiasu and kiasi people on earth, and they use F-15Is as their first line aircraft, if they, outnumbered 20 to 1, don't see a problem with the F-15I(E)s ... rest assured we won't have one, air-to-air combat has evolved from the "Top gun" days of the eighties and nineties, these days, it's the avionics and weapon system that counts, with high off bore sight air to air missiles nowadays, the fellow who shoots first wins, with those chaps modding our eagles, rest assured that we'll have some "silver bullet" hidden somewhere, and we'll be the ones shooting first ...
besides, i don't really trust the frogs' stuff .... just look at their war record ! .... surrender monkeys ! ... the rafale probably comes with an optional white flag ...
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Source: Defense Industry Daily
F-15E Strike Eagle Taking Off With Singapore Contract?
Posted 25-Aug-2005 07:05
F-15E Strike Eagle
The U.S. Defense Security Cooperation Agency recently notified the public of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Singapore of advanced ordnance, plus logistics, training support, and associated equipment and services for F-15 aircraft. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $741 million. Given that:
* Singapore does not currently fly F-15 aircraft (it flies F-16s, F/RF-5s, and A-4SUs)
* The F-15E Strike Eagle was named to an April/05 shortlist with Dassault's Rafale for Singapore's $1 billion A-4SU fighter replacement contract
* Closer U.S. military ties in recent years are expected to give the F-15E a slight edge; and
* The recently-retired head of U.S. Pacific Command was honored at almost the same time with Singapore's Meritorious Service Medal - Military
...the natural question is whether the Government of Singapore has made or is very close to making a decision regarding its future fighter purchase.
AGM-154 JSOW
The proposed deal also highlights other trends.
The equipment requested by Singapore was diverse, but many are among the most advanced in the U.S. arsenal. These weapons themselves are not definitive with respect to the fighter contract, however, as all of them could also be carried by F-16s.
* 24 Link 16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System/Low Volume Terminals (Fighter Data Link Terminals); see this DID article for an explanation of this important piece of equipment, and note that the upcoming fighter contract is for around 20 planes.
* 200 AIM-120C Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) and 6 CATM-120C AMRAAM Captive Air Training (CAT) Missiles. The AIM-120C is America's most advanced medium range air-air missile.
* 200 AIM-9X Sidewinder Missiles; and 24 AIM-9X Sidewinder Captive Air Training and Dummy Missiles. The AIM-9X is the most recent version of the short range Sidewinder air-air missile, and it has just started to enter service with U.S. fighters. It was designed to be competitive with missiles like the British ASRAAM, French Mica, Russian AA-11, German/European IRIS-T, and Israeli Python 4.
* 50 MK-82 GBU-38 Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM) w/BLU-111 warhead; plus 100 KMU-556 GBU-31 JDAM Tail Kit Assemblies, that can turn regular bombs into Global Positioning System guided JDAMs.
* 30 AGM-154A-1 Joint Standoff Weapons w/BLU-111; and 30 AGM-154C Joint Standoff Weapons. These are GPS-guided glide bombs with a range of 75km.
* 44 AN/AVS-9(V) Night Vision Goggles.
* 300,000 20mm Practice Round Cartridges. Note that the Rafale uses a 30mm cannon, but F-16s and F-5s both use 20mm Vulcan cannon.
* 4 MK-82 and MK-84 "dumb" bomb practice trainers
The principal contractors will be Raytheon Missile System Corporation of Tucson, AZ and Boeing Integrated Defense Solutions of St. Louis, MO. There will be up to 10 U.S. Government personnel and 10 contractor representatives for two-week intervals annually to participate in program management and technical reviews, and there are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale.
With these weapons, Singapore continues its military modernization by adding transformational communications and precision strike capabilities. It also enhances its interoperability with both the USA and Australia, whose military cooperation have become more important as pan-Islamic movements target the regions and pirate activities continue to rise around the Straits of Malacca. The DSCA also noted that:
"Singapore has requested a competition between U.S. contractors and foreign competitors for an aircraft program. If Singapore selects the F-15 aircraft, the aircraft and engines will be purchased commercially, for which there would be an eventual 36© notification of the commercial sale. This proposed sale includes the weapons and logistics support for the F-15 aircraft."
Dassault Rafale
In response to queries on Aug 24/05, Singapore's Defense Ministry said that is still evaluating U.S. and French fighter jets and has yet to choose either of them for upgrading the country's warplanes. The government hasn't said when a decision would be made, either.
See DID's overview for more background on Singapore's $1 billion fighter contract and why it's significant. -
The prob is still logistics, training, lots of other factors.Originally posted by Blockhead:Well, if the French are willing to provide a similar package at a lower price, I don't see why we shouldn't take the Rafale. From what little I know, there's nothing in the package that the French don't have an equivalent of, or could also provide.
Of course, if the French are willing to throw in a few other major goodies....
Perhaps its a little premature to get too excited about the choice of plane for now?
About the 'new' capability.... Is it really 'new' for us, u think? Just wondering.
And, Rafale 1st overseas order if they get it -
right now, the French and Thales are willing to offer 100% tech cooperation on the AESA - which is one of our biggest priorities. gives the Rafale an advantage.
that is not the case with the F-15T, there are still a lot of US tech transfer restrictions. however, i believe if the US offer us substantial transfer of AESA tech, F-15T will take the deal. US AESA is still the most advanced.
don't forget, american political pressure isn't going to work on us. it didn't spare michael fay the rotan, and neither is it going to affect our selection - we will pick the best plane for our needs, pure and simple. we are famous worldwide for that.
buying the rafale will also reduce our dependence on the US for fighter aircraft. always good to diversify your fighter supplier base in case relations go sour.
well, MINDEF announced the deadline is next month. not long more to wait! Dassault and Boeing are probably throwing their final sweeteners now, and we will know the decision in the coming weeks. -
Do you mean this? http://www.airliners.net/open.file/683651/L/Originally posted by Fatum:would be quite a bit actually, JSOW will give us stand off targeting ability out to 100 clicks away, JDAMS, and AIM-9X off high off boresight missiles (okay, granted, rumours of python IV and helmut mounted sights on our vipers has been going around for sometime now ) air-to-air wise there would be nothing similar to the aim-9x that the frogs can offer us, and don't forget that the french themselves uses lots of US air-to-ground munitions, the F-15T will be a much better complete package, a much better bomb truck, and with AMMRAM Cs and AIM-9X pretty much nothing else can touch them air-to-air wise actually, 30+ year old airframe notwithstanding ..... my dollar will be on the F15T ....
Hope it helps.
Cheers. -
The contract if i remember correctly was, 8-10 planes with an option for 12 more or something along those linesOriginally posted by sg1960:If SG do not have the interest or intention of getting 20 or Eagles , then why SG request a support package for that nos. of aircraft.
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heheh ..... bring it on Flankers !!! .... hope you've just serviced your ejection seats .... hahahaha .......Originally posted by Pitot: -
Sorry if its wrongOriginally posted by Fatum:heheh ..... bring it on Flankers !!! .... hope you've just serviced your ejection seats .... hahahaha .......
It rang a thoght with me as I just saw the other pic yest.
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nope, that's the one ... it's an Israeli made Elbit systems Helmut mounted cueing system, designed to fire high off bore sight air-to-air missiles, like the python IV ... but let's call it a "rumour" still eh ...Originally posted by Pitot:Sorry if its wrong
It rang a thoght with me as I just saw the other pic yest.
the US AIM-9X will have a similar capability ... but it's so new it hasn't even been integrated on all fighters yet, so i'll say our strategic relationship with the US must be deeper than it appears ... -
lol..a newcomer here, hope I can help you all as time goes.
The pic is taken from Airliners.Net, and if you read the description, it shows that our pilots are wearing it during an excercise with their French counterparts in France.
Cheers. -
no pic leh can re post?Originally posted by Pitot:lol..a newcomer here, hope I can help you all as time goes.
The pic is taken from Airliners.Net, and if you read the description, it shows that our pilots are wearing it during an excercise with their French counterparts in France.
Cheers. -
Well said and good idea!!Originally posted by Fatum:if you look at the military purchases in recent years, frigates, F16s with conformal fuel tanks, KC-135 tankers, and now, perhaps F15 long range interdictors, these are assets that'll allow us to project power far beyond our shores ... certainly more than enough, i think, to deal with the chaps to our north, i think singapore is gearing up in such a way to project power to protect the sea lanes of communications in the south china sea. there's only one power on the ascendent in the south china sea right now; China. i think we're configuring our forces so as to protect our interest in the event of a showdown in the south china sea between the bigger powers
but on the other hand, as for getting involved in a korean conflict, i think that's highly unlikely, if not impossible, north east asian is far off the radar screen of our interests, and i seriously doubt we would take sides in a showdown between super-powers (china and the US ) unless we absolutely have to, like it or not, north korea still exist only because it is in china's interest to be so. a korean conflict would be a full out total war, and any singaporean troops sent there will be up against a trained army, not the wayang show militiamen of east timor. would we take such a risk ? ... i don't think so, the combat experience that perhaps might be gained would be far outweighted by the political costs, both abroad and at home .... best watch the show on CNN and learn from there ...