Anyone knows why the F-20 was scrapped?
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Anyone?
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if i remember correctly, there were lack of sales due to political reasons (nothing to do with the aircraft, it was a rather fine piece of work), and the USAF chose the F-16A to do what the F-20 could, so it got cancelled
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F16 + a bit politics + fancy performance of IAF's F16s
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The reason is because it was never submitted for any bid before. USAF did not have any requirement for it.
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The F20 was never intended for the US market, although at one point it was considered as an aggressor aircraft for training purposes (not sure if it was Top Gun, Red Flag or both). Overall, the foreign market, for which it was designed, preferred to go for the F16 instead (owing largely to the fact that the USAF was using it), and a lack of sales killed it.
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The F-20 was essentially a souped up F-5. It was meant for export to countries already operating the F-5. Read somewhere that, the US wanted to re-equip friendly nations that were operating the F-5 to the F-20. Hence it was.. cost-effective.
I believe that the RSAF had once considered the F-20 Tigershark. Now imagine the problems we'd be facing now, if we didn't take the F-16 instead.
Btw, the US Govt was really pushing hard for the F-20 sales... still didn't manage to get a buyer. -
Our fleet of F-5S/T light fighters (numbering 53 in active service) have been upgraded in 1998. Anyone knows whether our F-5S/T has already surpassed the F-20 in terms of capability?Originally posted by Shotgun:The F-20 was essentially a souped up F-5. It was meant for export to countries already operating the F-5. Read somewhere that, the US wanted to re-equip friendly nations that were operating the F-5 to the F-20. Hence it was.. cost-effective.
I believe that the RSAF had once considered the F-20 Tigershark. Now imagine the problems we'd be facing now, if we didn't take the F-16 instead.
Btw, the US Govt was really pushing hard for the F-20 sales... still didn't manage to get a buyer.
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To add-on to what other members had stated.
The F-20 was actually a 'by-product' of the Carter administration's policy of not arming friendly nations that are not cleared to receive top-of-the-line US fighters (esp F-16s). This is part of the reson why the F-5 series is so successful in sales.
And given the large no. of F-5 users wordwide, Northrop had calculated that the F-20 (given its superior performance over the original F-5 series, it was decided to tag the much-improved F-5 the 'F-20' rather than upped it as another F-5G/H++) would easily scooped up by these users as a natural F-5 replacement.
Reasons why the F-20 failed (internationally):
a) The Reagan Adminstration do not share the same qualms with the Carter Adminstration over the restriction of the export of top-of the-line fighters (F-16) to US-friendly nations and naturally gave the 'green light' for these nations to receive standard US fighters rather than lower-end fighters (but this doesn't mean this fighters are not good).
b) The home user (USAF) was not a user of the F-20 (nations tend to see what the US itself uses. This equally meant that any aircraft that is used by the US itself, could meant that the aircraft is not good. Who would want to buy that?).
Therefore realising this non-US use handicap, Northrop submitted the F-20 to a USAF fly-off competition (in the mid/late 1980s) against the F-16 for a follow-on order (to add on to an earlier order of the F-16).
Reasons why the F-20 lost to the F-16 in the fly-off:
a) While acknowledging the F-20's performance, the USAF is not ready to introduce another air-to-air fighter whose role are fulfilled by the F-16 already.
Alternative
Nevertheless, the F-20 was shown off to some nations:
a) South Korea: The F-20 was shown to the South Korean top brass but the F-20 crashed during the demonstration!
b) Bahrain : Ordered 8 x F-20s. But the number is too small to justify/start the production line.
c) Taiwan: Northrop had thus tried to sell F-20 tools to the ROCAF. Reasons failed I'm not too sure but could be that time, the Taiwanese is either interested in the F-16 or thinking of developing a indegenious figher ( the Ching-Kuo?)
Subsequently, some F-20 parts did find it's way into some these nations. Noticeably the shark-nose radome of the F-20 onto the original F-5 radomes.
Look around if you don't believe me.
This is what I know, hope it helps. -
The key to the F-20 is that it uses a single F404 engine instead of 2 tiny J85s o the F5E.Originally posted by Delta 5:Our fleet of F-5S/T light fighters (numbering 53 in active service) have been upgraded in 1998. Anyone knows whether our F-5S/T has already surpassed the F-20 in terms of capability?
This gives it an exceptional climb rate that surpasses even the F16.
our upgraded F5s still uses the same engine.... the avionics like radar is of course better then the F20 which was a 1980s a/c.
The F-20 was scrapped because the US is willing to sell the F-16s to 3rd world countries outside of NATO. Prior to that decision, the F-20 is suppose to be for that market. But the 3rd world nations do not want a "downgrade" a/c.
Also the F-20 lost the USAF Air Defense Figther contract to the F16A-ADF.
So w/o buyers/role so the F-20 is killed off -
I saw a book which say F20 is actually suprior to F16 and F18 it died due to political reasons... we are not pilot or air force cheif ...so we will never know whether this is the true.... can only say F20 is much superior to F5 we are having.
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On a side note
Legendary General Chuck Yeager gave the F-20 very high regards!
And as far as I know, the initial ordered F404 engines were sold to Singapore for our A4 upgrades.
Mind You, the F-20 can take on F-16 or F-18 without much difficulties then!
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Is Chuck Yeager a General? I thot he si a COL or LTC?Originally posted by Tweeker:On a side note
Legendary General Chuck Yeager gave the F-20 very high regards!
And as far as I know, the initial ordered F404 engines were sold to Singapore for our A4 upgrades.
Mind You, the F-20 can take on F-16 or F-18 without much difficulties then!
During the 80s, the basic F16A is basically a lightweight figther and is Sidewinder equiped with no BVR AAM, No LANTIRN and other fancy stuff.
One thing that the US did was to give the F-20 a AirtoAir capability but limited AtoG perfomance......
so in the A to A arena the F20 is pretty good....
But nobody want to have a downgraded "export only" aircraft.....
The F404 engines are used for our A4 upgrade....
The F20 is a totally different a/c thenthe F5E. Not possible to "upgrade" a F5E, the fuelsage is completely differnt!
Oh yeah, the F20 is also notoriously short-ranged compared to the F16, again another US requirement to make the F20 a "less aggressive" weapon. -
if i'm not mistaken, he retired as a brigadier generalOriginally posted by spencer99:Is Chuck Yeager a General? I thot he si a COL or LTC? -
The F-20 was a company venture, not a govt require I gues.........
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From what I remembered, US tried to fob off the F-20 to countries like Taiwan and Singapore, reserving the F-16 for other more "qualified" countries.
Basically, Taiwan said: "Look here old boy, we have money, we want the F-16 or we're going to Europe."
And Singapore more or less said the same.
So in the end, money made the US see logic and they decided to sell the F-16 to everyone who can afford it. -
If it survivied, woo... F-5 single engine version
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What are we gonna do with those A-4s and F-5s that we are gonna retire?? Sell'em off ? To who?
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The last time I read somewhere in some aviation mag was that when the RSAF announced its intention to retired its A-4s, the Phillipines expressed an interest in acquiring them (which will be pretty appropriate for their COIN ops against their domestic armed rebels).
But somehow, nothing came out concrete.
Btw. the South Korean Air Force is offering their F-5A/Bs for a token sum of US$100! EEkks! Any country taking up that offer must be pretty desperate! -
hmm... there might be conditions... like u must pay their state owned aerospace firms to "re-condition" the a/c to make them flyable again!Originally posted by Black Aces:The last time I read somewhere in some aviation mag was that when the RSAF announced its intention to retired its A-4s, the Phillipines expressed an interest in acquiring them (which will be pretty appropriate for their COIN ops against their domestic armed rebels).
But somehow, nothing came out concrete.
Btw. the South Korean Air Force is offering their F-5A/Bs for a token sum of US$100! EEkks! Any country taking up that offer must be pretty desperate!
F5 As and Bs are very very old! -
Agree.... that era gave rise to the F16/79 as well, which is a F16 with reduced avionics package and a lower powered J79 engine (same as that used in F4)Originally posted by tvdog:From what I remembered, US tried to fob off the F-20 to countries like Taiwan and Singapore, reserving the F-16 for other more "qualified" countries.
Basically, Taiwan said: "Look here old boy, we have money, we want the F-16 or we're going to Europe."
And Singapore more or less said the same.
So in the end, money made the US see logic and they decided to sell the F-16 to everyone who can afford it.
But of course the "3rd world" customers just stick their nose up and insist on getting the real thing! -
I do believe that the RSAF was on the F-16/79 list at the time the procurement rules were changed.
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the RSAF was... but in the end the we got the 8x Blk 15 F16As and Bs.
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Gee, i thought we really did buy the F-16/J79s. Just that we brought it in for an upgrade not long after.
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Probably most of them will be scrapped...Originally posted by Shotgun:What are we gonna do with those A-4s and F-5s that we are gonna retire?? Sell'em off ? To who? -
are civillians allowed to buy them? i don't mind an F-5A in my backyardOriginally posted by Black Aces:The last time I read somewhere in some aviation mag was that when the RSAF announced its intention to retired its A-4s, the Phillipines expressed an interest in acquiring them (which will be pretty appropriate for their COIN ops against their domestic armed rebels).
But somehow, nothing came out concrete.
Btw. the South Korean Air Force is offering their F-5A/Bs for a token sum of US$100! EEkks! Any country taking up that offer must be pretty desperate!