New Long Range Surface to Air Missiles for Singapore?
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In 1996, Singapore showed interest in Russian SA-10 systems, viewing the type as a potential long term replacement for the British-built Bloodhound Mk 2 systems decommisioned in the early 1990s. However, no order was placed. Sources from Jane's Defence Weekly have indicated that the American MIM-104 Patriot and Israeli Arrow 2 systems have also been evaluated in recent years.
This procurement has been overshadowed by other projects such as the stealth frigate project, selection of the Next Generation Fighter, among a host of others. Does anyone know or happen to hear any rumours about the progress of this? -
Yeah I read about this in ADJ too.I think we were looking at the S-3000 ABM system.Originally posted by Delta 5:In 1996, Singapore showed interest in Russian SA-10 systems, viewing the type as a potential long term replacement for the British-built Bloodhound Mk 2 systems decommisioned in the early 1990s. However, no order was placed. Sources from Jane's Defence Weekly have indicated that the American MIM-104 Patriot and Israeli Arrow 2 systems have also been evaluated in recent years.
This procurement has been overshadowed by other projects such as the stealth frigate project, selection of the Next Generation Fighter, among a host of others. Does anyone know or happen to hear any rumours about the progress of this? -
i would like to see the Formidable-class FFGs being equipped with the Aster 30 area air defence version of the present Aster 15s. these have 80km range and neatly fulfil the long-reach SAM requirement.
it is also the most cost-effective solution since the radars and firing platforms have been bought and the crews trained. -
eh..standard SM-1 missiles anyone?
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IMO, Aster15 got much better low altitude anti-sea skimming ASM capability, ( Same as ESSM got better anti-ASM ability than SM-2). for a smaller FFG, it's more important to have 2nd and inner layer of air-defense first ( 1st layer CIWS) than 3rd layer long range SAM( Aster30). However, if you have a more balanced fleet(DDG/FFG) , then you probably need long range SAM for fleet defense and Aegis system for linking different layer of SAMs in different platforms all together.Originally posted by wd1:i would like to see the Formidable-class FFGs being equipped with the Aster 30 area air defence version of the present Aster 15s. these have 80km range and neatly fulfil the long-reach SAM requirement.
it is also the most cost-effective solution since the radars and firing platforms have been bought and the crews trained.
I don't mean the Aster30 is not necessary, however, it should be in addition to Aster15 and should not be stand alone. -
Is Singapore facing any particular threat at this moment from surface to surface missiles? The Patriot and Arrow systems are mainly for such threats. And they are by no means cheap especially in the case of Patriot missile systems. So unless we have a clear and present danger, the purchase of such systems are not very justifiable. However, The S-300 or the newer S-400 will provide a good deterence in terms of its relatively lower cost and it being highly mobile as compared to Patriot. It is also said that the air defence coverage by these Russian systems is larger than the US one, but i can't confirm this at this point. The Russian systems are already being purchased by PRC and maybe Vietnam.
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Wow~~~ great! S-400 SAM!!
U want to Dr M panic in his M airforce 1 right, considering his plane just takes off in KL then is within your S400's shooting envelop.
I think mindset should be similar in different sections of gov.sg's decision making. When MAS decides the Sing dollar should b valued against a blanket of regional currences, then I believe Mindef'll have similar considerations as well, that's the SAF SAM's portfolio will against a blanket of SAMs that the neighbors have.
So could anybody have an update on the SAMs that other countries in SEA have or plan to have? -
How effective of Patriot anti missisles sys:
Partiot was .....in fact meaningless
by Israel Defense Minister Moshe Arens.
‘’The Nature of Furure Conflict’’ by Richard Connanghton.
2.Any official reports of accuracy of weapons in 2 Gulf wars? -
The Patriot is not just for ABM lah. It has the capability in the PAC3 version. But it's main role is anti-air.Originally posted by tankee1981:Is Singapore facing any particular threat at this moment from surface to surface missiles? The Patriot and Arrow systems are mainly for such threats. And they are by no means cheap especially in the case of Patriot missile systems. So unless we have a clear and present danger, the purchase of such systems are not very justifiable.. -
The land based Aster 15/30 system would fit the bill perfectly...
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S300/400 are not expensive compare to other. 2 4 round missile truck and a command truck cost around US150 million. IS good for Sg to have 3-4 set of this system. Range is around 150KM.
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As long as we have a good system that can "reach out and touch someone (shoot the bastard down)" effectively, good enuff.
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has to be a land-based platform .... you don't imagine driving the FFGs into the northern johor straits do you ? ....Originally posted by wd1:i would like to see the Formidable-class FFGs being equipped with the Aster 30 area air defence version of the present Aster 15s. these have 80km range and neatly fulfil the long-reach SAM requirement.
it is also the most cost-effective solution since the radars and firing platforms have been bought and the crews trained. -
I'm not quite sure the S400 is really existing or not, but the said range of S400 system can be up to 400km`
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Ha ha ha... If it really has a 400click range, our neighbours will be shitting bricks. 5 minutes after take off Ka-Boom!
Nah, I think if we bought those, it'll start a serious arms race. -
OH~ , it seems the S400 finally entered service, just got this info:
S-400 IZ Operational :
S-400 air-defence system operational
The Russian Federation Air Force (RFAF) has confirmed that two S-400 (Triumph) low- to high-altitude air-defence systems are in service with line units but that an extension of the re-arming effort depends on funding.
This information confirms a statement by Lieutenant General Aytech Bizhev, Deputy Commander-in-Chief (CinC) for the Commonwealth of Independent States Unified Air-Defence, that two S-400 systems are deployed with the air force for field testing and that these will be deployed fully in 2005.
The RFAF CinC General Vladimir Mikhaylov said on 11 December that the air-defence priority is to upgrade existing equipment and further develop the new S-400 for air defence and non-strategic missile defence.
Plans to re-arm the air force surface-to-air missile (SAM) units with the S-400 remain highly dependent on the availability of funds, and the manufacturing capacities of the industry, according to RFAF officials,.
Colonel General Boris Cheltsov, RFAF chief of staff, said the S-400 would achieve full operational readiness in 2005 after receiving a number of upgrades. Gen Bizhev also confirmed that the upgrades would allow the S-400 and the A-135M to share target data information.
Together with upgraded variants of the in-service SAM systems, the S-400 is part of an effort to "solve the issues of non-strategic missile defence". Gen Cheltsov, who headed the air force commission that supervised S-400 fire trials, said the commission has recommended to the Russian Ministry of Defence (MoD) that it accepts the S-400 in service "in a variant with a standard missile". Earlier it had been recommended that the S-400 enter trial service with missiles already used by the S-300 series.
Gen Bizhev said the S-400 would initially be located to protect Moscow, St Petersburg and the Urals industrial region, as well as border stretches "where missile attacks can be expected". He also said the S-400 could destroy cruise missiles and aircraft at a range of 250 km and at a range of heights from several dozen metres to the stratosphere.
The S-400, when operational with the new long-range missile (40N6), is claimed to have a range of 400 km and it is believed to have passed firing tests with all missile types.
The existing S-400s are currently undergoing capability enhancements for interoperability with the space forces assets.
The Russian armed forces say that the S-400 can potentially be used against strategic ballistic missiles after separation of warheads. In that role the S-400s will be co-operating with the A-135 anti-missile system in service with the Russian Space Forces. Provision is made for the S-400s to receive targeting information on approaching space threats from the Russian Space Forces in an automatic mode.
The S-400/A-135 will be the first block of the Air and Space Defence (ASD) system, a future structure concept recently formulated by the Russian defence ministry. The latter said that the MoD has recently approved the ASD concept and it is currently being improved for final validation by the Russian president.
Among other things, the ASD calls for a unitary radar field over Russia, similar to that which the Soviet Union had, but "on a new quality level". To achieve this, a united air traffic control/air-defence radar field will be created, combining the means of civil and military structures. Almaz-Antei (Air Defence Concern or Kontsern PVO) has been selected to lead the effort. Almaz-Antei will act as systems integrator and also supplier of major elements such as phased-array radar systems and 'identification friend or foe' interrogators. S-400 WILL Track Stealth Targets az well: S-400 surveillance radar will track stealth targets
Miroslav Gyürösi
Russia displayed the 96L6 surveillance radar for the S-400 missile system at the MAKS 2001 defence exhibition at Zhukovsky near Moscow, writes Miroslav Gyürösi. It operates in C-band, and the manufacturers say it can detect and track aircraft and cruise missiles which use stealth technology.
Work on the 96L6 began in the second half of the 1980s, when Boris Vasilyevics Bunkin, the general designer of CKB Almaz defined the requirements for a surveillance radar to form part of the new S-400 missile system. The design of the new radar was assigned to the Lira design bureau, which is a part of LEMZ - the Lianozovskiz Elektromekhanicseskij Zavod (Lianozovo Elektromechanical Factory). Lira and LEMZ are part of the financial-industrial group Oboronitelniye Sistemi (Defence Systems).
During the development and trials stage OKR (Opitno-Konstruktorskaya Rabota) of the programme, the new radar was designated VVO (Vsevisotniy Obnaruzhitel = detector for all altitudes).
The requirements for the VVO were very rigorous. The team headed by the late main designer Yuriy Fyodorovics Lisin based its design on research by Professor VI Vinokurov into the detection of difficult signals.
Another organisation involved with the development programme was the scientific research experimental establishment (Naucsno-Issledovatelskaya Eksperimentalnaya Rabota) Slozhnost (Complexity), whose general designers are BV Bunkin and Yuriy Aleksandrovics Kuznecov.
An experimental radar was built and tested in a series of trials against Yak-52 training aircraft. Specialists from other Russian radar establishments such as LETI, NII-2 MO, NII-3 MO, UPI, CNIIRES and VNIIRT participated in the trials, and the resulting data influenced the future development of radar technology in what was then the Soviet Union.
In 1988, representatives of the main developing organisation and the customer signed agreement giving the go-ahead for wideband radar technology, based on this earlier research to be used in the VVO programme. As a result of theoretical and experimental research, a database of difficult signals was developed, along with signal processing hardware with a speed of 10 billion operations per second, plus other components.
In 1991, the Lira design bureau built a prototype of the VVO radar. This started operation in early 1992, and in April of that year was demonstrated against low-altitude targets. Later that year systems were delivered for trials at the training centre of NII-2, the scientific research institute of the Russian air-defence forces. The system was displayed in model form at the MAKS 97 defence exhibition.
When the system enters service it will replace the 5N66M and 76N6 (NVO/NVO-M) radars currently used for the detection of low-flying targets. (The 76N6 is known to NATO as 'Clam Shell'.) Both had been developed in the early 1970s by the design bureau of the LEMZ factory. Later the 96L6 will replace the 19Zh6/35D6/36D6 family (ST-68U/-68UM) of all-round surveillance radars, which were developed and produced in Ukraine by NPO Iskra.
The role of the 96L6 is the detection of air targets and measuring of their azimuth, elevation and range. It can be used with the S-300PMU surface-to-air (SAM) system, can autonomously assign targets for the 90Zh6E, 90Zh6E1 and 90Zh6E2 (S-300PMU-1 and later) air-defence missile complexes, and can be connected with the Baykal-1E and Senezh-M1E automated command and control systems or the radiotechnical forces' Osnova-1E and Polye-E command posts.
It can pass information about a wide spectrum of the aerial targets, including aircraft, helicopters, UAVs and missiles, to the 30N6E, 30N6E1, 30N6E2 ('Flap Lid') series of tracking and missile guidance radars.
The 96L6 is very effective against low flying targets and against targets in the medium and high altitudes. It maintains its performance in the presence of heavy jamming, and has a very low false-alarm rate.
Targets can be tracked at elevations from 60º down to 0º, but a minimum of -3º is available as an option. The antenna uses several beams when scanning in elevation. For detection of very low flying targets, or if the radar is deployed in a wooded area, the antenna can be mounted on a 966AA14 elevated tower. The latter consists of a 40V6M tower mounted on a MAZ-537G (74106) truck. -
4 batteries of land-based Aster 15/30 of 6 launchers each would provide Singapore with a robust and powerful air defence capability.
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[quote]Originally posted by 38�Ž:
[b]OH~ , it seems the S400 finally entered service, just got this info:
Don't you just love how the Russians are always complaining about the American researching and deploying ABM defense when they themseleves have multiple systems with the ability and probably already deployed?
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But you have to admit the Russians make things way cheaper than US and works the same of not better! Talk about productivity and innovation!Originally posted by insouciant:[quote]Originally posted by 38�Ž:
[b]OH~ , it seems the S400 finally entered service, just got this info:
Don't you just love how the Russians are always complaining about the American researching and deploying ABM defense when they themseleves have multiple systems with the ability and probably already deployed? 
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Russian things are cheap but their supportability and maintainability is suspicious. Imagine a repair manual in Russian, technical support in Russian and everything requiring interpretor not to mention if you can get the spare part required.
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http://www.army-technology.com/projects/surface-launched/
I'll pick this but im not sure whether the system will be exported
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Current Designations of U.S. Unmanned Military Aerospace Vehicles
Take 120 C AMRAAM as example:
Y--Prototype
A-- Air
I--Interception (air or space)
M--Guided Missile, Drone, UAV
2.also read Directory of U.S. Military Rockets and Missiles -
They are targeting the export market. I would think that they would have manuals in english as well.Originally posted by oerlikon:Russian things are cheap but their supportability and maintainability is suspicious. Imagine a repair manual in Russian, technical support in Russian and everything requiring interpretor not to mention if you can get the spare part required. -
I doubt the S-400 will be available for sale as yet. Maybe the S-300...
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Im surprised many people here take russian technology as proven and guarenteed.
